and a healthy discussion of the sensitive issues before us today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OBERSTAR. The gentleman from Texas. Mr. Laughlin.

Mr. LAUGHLIN. Mr. Chairman, since we started these hearings on aviation security, I have been overseas on American Airlines and Pan Am Airlines. On those occasions, I had access to the cockpit and the crews on both those airliners.

Mr. HAYES. They were terrified.

Mr. LAUGHLIN. They were terrified. Thank you, Mr. Hayes. And they urged me to relay to this committee, and to you, which I have already done, and I would relay to the witnesses here-these men and women are putting their lives on the line each day when they take these airliners into the sky with many American lives at their hands, and they have urged us to get a solution to this terroristic problem, and I am here to assure you and the witnesses, I look forward to working with you to bring a solution and attack this terroristic problem. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I appreciate your participation and your help. The gentleman from Missouri?

Mr. HANCOCK. No statement, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OBERSTAR. No statement. Are there other members who wish to make opening comments? Mr. Bosco?

Mr. Bosco. No, thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OBERSTAR. The gentleman from North Carolina.

Mr. VALENTINE. I have just a short statement which I will try to make shorter, Mr. Chairman. Today's hearing on H.R. 1659 is of special interest to me because, as Chairman of the Transportation, Aviation and Materials Subcommittee of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, I chaired a hearing on aviation security several weeks ago.

At that time I stated-and it is worth repeating here—that the Congress must find a way to give the American people a sense of confidence that action is being taken to protect the flying public and that we, in the Congress, are moving to make airports and airplanes less vulnerable to terrorist attacks.

I congratulate the Chairman for the introduction of this legislation and believe that it moves in that direction, and ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the balance of my statement.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Without objection, so ordered. The gentleman's statement will be included in full.

[Mr. Valentine's prepared statement follows:]

STATEMENT OF TIM VALENTINE, MEMBER OF CONGRESS Today's hearing on H.R. 1659 is of special interest to me because, as Chairman of the Transportation, Aviation and Materials Subcommittee of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, I chaired a hearing on aviation security in February. At that time I stated, and it is worth repeating, that Congress must give the American people a sense of confidence that action is being taken to protect the flying public and that we are moving to make airports and airplanes less vulnerable to terrorist groups.

The Federal Aviation Administration is the lead federal agency for aviation security. It has invested millions of dollars in developing airport screening devices to find deadly explosives and weapons in luggage and on passengers. The Aviation Security Act of 1989 will require all U.S. air carriers to install and use explosive detection equipment.

As the tragedy of Pan Am flight 103 teaches, international terrorists are becoming increasingly sophisticated in terms of their tactics and capabilities. It would be naive for us to assume that technology can provide all the solutions. However, we in Congress must insist on action from the FAA and others so that airports become off limits to individuals carrying even the most sophisticated devices.

Mr. OBERSTAR. The gentleman from Georgia. Mr. Jones.

Mr. JONES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to compliment you on the hard work and the thorough preparation that you and your staff have put into this most important piece of legislation.

Airline security and safety is something that affects us all and affects all of our families, and I think we must act quickly and affirmatively to protect air passengers from terrorists, and I think that this bill addresses these concerns.

And I know that the aviation community in Atlanta looks to this committee for support, and for action, and I applaud you for your leadership in introducing H.R. 1659. Thank you.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I thank the gentleman for those remarks. The gentleman from Colorado. Mr. Skaggs.

Mr. SKAGGS. No statement, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Oberstar. I would like to place in the Record at this point a statement received from our colleague, Representative Jerry Costello.

[Mr. Costello's statement follows:]

STATEMENT OF JERRY F. COSTELLO, MEMBER OF CONGRESS

Mr. Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to see this bill come to our committee after previous hearings on the issue of aviation safety. Recent incidents involving Pan Am flight 103 and other airline security violations have brought this important issue to our attention, and it encourages me to see this legislative action take place in an effort to prevent further tragedy.

I am also encouraged by Transportation Secretary Skinner's promise to visit Europe and discuss the implementation of security devices, as well as heightened airport security measures, with European leaders. In addition, actions by the FAA to improve security will greatly add to these efforts.

In this bill, we will be requiring the installation and use of explosive detection equipment not less than 60 days after the date of enactment. In addition, we will be making available significant funding from the Aviation Trust Fund for the FAA Administrator to obligate for the acquisition of explosive detection equipment.

I look forward to the comments of the witnesses today, and hope this subcommittee can move forward to advance this bill, which I feel is quite necessary to improve international airline safety standards.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank you. Our first witnesses are Mr. Robert Knisely, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Budget and Programs from the U.S. Department of Transportation, accompanied by Darlene Freeman, Deputy Director, Office of Civil Aviation Security for the FAA.

Welcome to our hearing. We appreciate your participation and your representing the Secretary on this important occasion.

I just want to ask my colleagues to keep in mind specific questions that they may have, and those that may have been raised—if you have had the opportunity to read testimony of other witnesses-with a specific goal in mind, and that is, tomorrow, this subcommittee will convene to mark up H.R. 1659, and if there are issues that you have concerns about, I want you to raise them now, get them on the record, explore those matters, so that tomorrow we can move speedily toward conclusion of this legislation, and report

it to the full committee, which will meet on Thursday to complete the markup on this bill.

I think it is also important to mention that the Appropriations Committee has jumped the gun on some of these issues and included language in the supplemental appropriation bill dealing with security matters, that are the subject in fact of today's hearing and they did it knowing that they were legislating in an appropriations bill.

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT KNISELY, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR BUDGET AND PROGRAMS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, ACCOMPANIED BY DARLENE M. FREEMAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY, FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION

Mr. KNISELY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, and members of the subcommittee, I welcome the opportunity to appear before the subcommittee today to discuss the Department of Transportation's views concerning H.R. 1659. With me today is Ms. Darlene Freeman, Deputy Director of the FAA's Office of Civil Aviation Security.

As you know, Secretary Skinner is in Europe this week to maintain the momentum of February's ICAO's aviation conference in Montreal, and build a unified approach to improved aviation security.

He announced his specific agenda for security initiatives April 3rd, following his and the President's meetings with Pan Am 103 families.

He is meeting this week with officials in Italy, West Germany, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and France, and one subject will be the placement of explosives detection technology abroad.

Use of the TNA devices overseas requires diplomatic and technical coordination, and he hopes to facilitate this process. We must be ready to place the equipment where it is most needed, as soon as it is manufactured.

Before outlining the Department's views concerning H.R. 1659, I would first like to describe briefly for you several major security initiatives which Secretary Skinner has announced since his March 23rd appearance before this subcommittee.

As you said, Mr. Chairman, Secretary Skinner needed no prodding. These initiatives include requiring deployment of explosives detection systems such as the Thermal Neutron Analysis device at the busiest airports in the U.S. and overseas where U.S. airlines operate. The U.S. will immediately initiate negotiations with foreign governments regarding installation of these systems at foreign airports, consistent with the Secretary's European initiative;

Assigning additional FAA security specialists to provide greater surveillance and assistance to U.S. carriers operating at the busiest airports in the U.S. and overseas;

Improving the FAA security bulletin process through which important security information is disseminated to the aviation community, in a variety of ways, including: making compliance by U.S. air carriers with such directives mandatory; requiring acknowledged receipt within 24 hours; requiring carriers to submit to FAA

within 72 hours specific information on how they plan to carry out preventative measures; and ensuring that specific information in security bulletins is distributed to pilots-in-command of airline flights;

Elevating standards for x-ray and metal detection equipment to assure that U.S. air carriers are using state-of-the-art equipment; forming a National Aviation Security Advisory Committee to provide a forum for the exchange and coordination of security programs and research and development designed to further enhance aviation security; and conducting a top-to-bottom review and evaluation by FAA of how well U.S. air carriers are complying with security requirements.

This effort will look at each airline's resources and general philosophy toward security.

Discussing with foreign governments new procedures for more effective coordination of the international assessment and dissemination of security information and countermeasures is also included. All of these measures are being addressed with a high sense of priority. The fight against terrorism is one of Secretary Skinner's highest priorities.

I would like to turn, now, to a brief discussion of H.R. 1659 which is pending before the subcommittee. H.R. 1659 would require the FAA Administrator, within 60 days after the bill's enactment, to mandate the installation and use by air carriers, at selected airports, domestically and overseas, of explosives detection equipment equivalent to or better than TNA technology.

The bill would also establish a grant program through which air carriers could receive up to $100 million in reimbursement for the purchase and installation of required explosives detection equipment. The $100 million would be available commencing with $50 million in grant authority in fiscal year 1989.

The legislation would also make available an additional $170 million in grant authority-$85 million in fiscal year 1989-under the Airport Improvement Act for airports to purchase and install equipment needed to comply with FAA regulatory requirements regarding controlled access to secured areas of airports.

Although we recognize and fully appreciate your intent in proposing H.R. 1659, we do not support its enactment. The Secretary has already announced that the FAA will act to require explosives detection equipment such as the TNA at appropriate airports here and overseas.

The FAA already possesses ample authority to issue such a requirement, and, as previously noted, this matter is a high priority with us. We have already begun efforts to define the nature of the equipment to be required, along with a timetable and priority schedule. Legislation is not needed to facilitate our efforts in this

area.

We would ask only for the subcommittee's continued support as we move forward to achieve the benefits of the state-of-the-art explosives detection technology on which we have worked for so long. We also do not believe that there is a need for Federal funding of explosives detection equipment as contemplated by the bill's proposed $100 million grant program.

The Secretary has considered various funding options for TNAtype equipment and concluded that there is not sufficient reason to alter the existing framework under which air carriers are responsible for meeting FAA-imposed security requirements.

In fact this framework is no different than that which exists for any other FAA regulatory requirements, such as the TCAS collision avoidance systems, even if costs to the regulated party may be associated with their installation.

We agree that there is a need for a strong Federal presence in the security area, and the Federal Government has played a significant role. Between fiscal year 1980 and 1989, for example, FAA has invested about $45 million for the development of TNA and vapor detection technology alone.

Additionally, we are increasing our security staff by 56 inspectors this year, and we are seeking in our fiscal year 1990 budget an additional 120 security inspectors who will work closely with airports and airlines, here and abroad, to improve security.

Our presence overseas will be strengthened as a part of this increased staffing effort. These are legitimate facets of an appropriate Federal role, and we intend to continue to play a strong, active role in combatting the threat of terrorism.

We also do not support the bill's increased grant authority of $170 million to be made available to airport operators for purchasing and installing equipment to carry out FAA requirements related to access to secured areas.

Airport operators may already use their entitlement grant funds under existing Airport Improvement Program grant authority to defray from 75 to 90 percent of the costs of required security equipment, if they choose.

It is an airport operator's choice as to how to spend entitlement funds among various eligible projects. We do not favor provisions that would fund 100 percent of any eligible program, or increasing the overall grant program to assist airports in complying with FAA's recent rulemaking on secured access.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to stress that we appreciate the subcommittee's interest in working to help improve the security of our air transportation system. We look forward to working closely with you and members of this subcommittee to strengthen our Nation's ability to respond to terrorist threats.

That completes my prepared statement, Mr. Chairman. We would be pleased to respond to questions you may have at this time.

Mr. OBERSTAR. Thank you very much. We want to reiterate the real appreciation on our part, on both sides of the aisle, for the splendid cooperation we have had with the Department all through this very, very important matter, and other issues involving aviation.

Mr. KNISELY. Thank you, sir.

Mr. OBERSTAR. I would like to ask both you, Mr. Knisely, and Ms. Freeman, to remain available through the balance of the hearing, unless you have some really overwhelming, pressing, other demands, because there may be some questions raised by other witnesses-in fact I think there will be questions and issues raised by

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