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that is needed, the cooperation which we believe we are getting between the two agencies of the Federal Government which are charged with the responsibility of reclamation, flood control, and other phases of water-resource development.

There are numerous instances in almost every State in the West where we are getting very close cooperation. I would like to emphasize that because in some quarters at least the impression seems to have gone out these two agencies are at each other's throat. They are each competing with the other, each trying to get this, that, and the other specific job.

STATE COOPERATION

We have found in many, many places in almost every State in the West there is close cooperation. A few days ago I had the pleasure of sitting in a conference between representatives of the Bureau of Reclamation and the Corps of Engineers and Senators from Oklahoma to discuss the possibility of working out an agreement on the Canton project in that State. I have every belief that will be worked out to the interests of the people.

I do not need to tell you of the cooperation between the agencies and the manner in which the program of the two agencies is being worked in the Willamette Valley in Oregon where the reservoirs and the dams are constructed by the Corps of Engineers for flood-control purposes and now the Bureau of Reclamation is moving in and cooperating with the people and finding a way to use that water for the irrigation in the Willamette Basin.

In the Missouri Basin there are numerous instances of cooperation. The Big Garrison Dam in Oahe, S. Dak., where they are providing flood-control benefits on the main stem of the Missouri River and at the same time providing irrigation benefits badly needed.

Senator CORDON. Which agency constructed the larger earth-fill dam in eastern Montana?

Mr. WELSH. The Army engineers.

Senator CORDON. Is any of that water used for reclamation?

Mr. WELSH. I am not sure. I think so.

Senator CORDON. There is use being considered downstream; is there not?

Mr. WELSH. Yes, sir.

Senator CORDON. There will be a question as to whether they want it, but at least it is being considered.

Then water impounded by Garrison was impounded with a view to its use in North Dakota over a vast area.

IRRIGATON FROM GARRISON DAM

Mr. WELSH. There would be toward a million acres of land to be irrigated from that dam.

Senator CORDON. The only question is the availability of land that can be aided by irrigation rather than availability of water to do the job!

Mr. WELSH. The special committee was appointed and did study the soils of the project which was originally considered. I believe now that they have moved from that to another project of comparable size within the State.

Senator CORDON. As long as we are on the subject and discussing cooperation between the Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation, there is another Department that comes into the picture or should, that of Agriculture with respect to characteristics of the soil itself and its susceptibility to being aided by reclamation and irrigation. Is that cooperation being had now?"

Mr. WELSH. Yes, sir. I think it is regrettable, however, that in both the Missouri River Basin and in the Columbia River Basin that the Department of Agriculture program was not brought into the picture at the same time the Bureau of Reclamation and the Corps of Engineers started their program. We look upon the work of the Department of Agriculture in the watersheds of the utmost importance. It is different, within the different basins.

Out in the Far West in the mountainous regions it is through the Forest Service. In the Great Plains States a great deal is carried on by the Soil Conservation Service. We think that upstream watershed protection is very important. We do not consider it an answer to the flood-control problem in itself.

STUDY OF SOILS

Senator CORDON. I agree with you it is important. I really referred, rather, to another aspect of cooperation: that of the study of the soils by the Department. That would be to determine whether those soils and subsoils can properly use artificial watering by reclamation and irrigation so as to achieve a higher productivity.

Mr. WELSH. There are a good many pilot farms in various projects and in relation to proposed projects in the West where there is cooperation. I visited one on the Columbia Basin where I thought they were doing a fine job. The cooperation was between the local agencies, the Extensive Service of the Department of Agriculture, and the Bureau of Reclamation.

Senator CORDON. I hope it continues and increases.

Senator ELLENDER. Can you tell us why it was that this cooperation to which you refer has been delayed?

Mr. WELSH. Between Agriculture and Interior?

Senator ELLENDER. Yes.

Mr. WELSH. My impression is that Agriculture was not ready. Senator ELLENDER. You do not know that for a fact?

Mr. WELSH. No, sir.

Senator ELLENDER. What do you mean by not being ready?

Mr. WELSH. They did not have an appropriate outline at the time of the Flood Control Act when the Missouri Basin project was authorized. They came along a few years later with a program.

Senator CORDON. In 1944 in the Flood Control Act, didn't the Department of Agriculture present its plan for one area in either Mississippi, the Little Tallahatchie, a pretty sizable one, and also a program for an area out in the west coast in California? I am not certain, but I think it was the Santa Ynez Basin.

Mr. WELSH. I am not sure.

Senator CORDON. My memory is that there were 8 or 10 programs presented at that time and authorized at that time.

PROGRAM AUTHORIZATION

My attention is called to the fact that in 1936 was the original language authorizing the program itself. Then in 1944, I believe, the first projects were authorized for construction. Incidentally, the Department of Agriculture at that time had gotten on to the idea that the only way you could complete that kind of a program was to own the land. They came with a very ambitious acquisition program. They had an idea the water would not fall on the land if it belonged to Uncle Sam. We had to disabuse their minds of that at that time. Mr. WELSH. To go back to your question, the provision in the 1954 Appropriation Act, we think, is a very good one which requires that the Secretary of the Interior make investigations to determine the productivity of the soil as to whether or not it is adapted to the production of crops. I cannot say to what extent the Department of Agriculture was called on to make those studies, but it is required. Just one other word, Mr. Chairman. About 3 or 4 weeks ago President Eisenhower made a statement to the effect that if the economic conditions of the country should require it, this administration would act promptly. That statement was very well received by our members. Our board of directors happened to be in Washington then, one from each of the 17 Western States. That was interpreted to mean this administration would endeavor to have constructive and worthwhile projects and would be prepared to move forward with those projects if the occasion requires a public works program.

I would like to emphasize that in the work of the Corps of Engineers and any other program, adequate planning and investigation is necessary if we are going to be prepared with projects should the occasion require it.

Senator CORDON. We will now recess until 10 o'clock in the morning. (Whereupon, at 12 noon, Monday, March 1, 1954, the committee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Tuesday, March 2, 1954.)

CIVIL FUNCTIONS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

APPROPRIATIONS, 1955

TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 1954

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room F-39, the Capitol, Hon. William F. Knowland (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senators Knowland, Cordon, Dworshak, Hayden, Ellender, and McClellan.

CIVIL FUNCTIONS

ICE HARBOR DAM, WASH.

STATEMENT OF HERBERT G. WEST, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE INLAND EMPIRE WATERWAYS ASSOCIATION, WALLA WALLA, WASH.

GENERAL STATEMENT

Senator KNOWLAND. The committee will come to order.

The first item today is the Ice Harbor project. Mr. Herbert West is the first witness. I might say to the witnesses that they may place their full statements in the record, and then, if they care to, condense their presentation to the committee.

Mr. WEST. Thank you, Senator. I am Herbert G. West, executive vice president of the Inland Empire Waterways Association at Walla Walla. We in the Northwest, Senator, are very apprehensive over the present budget, as recommended, regarding our projects out there, as everyone in the entire region has been in more or less of a power shortage over some period of years, and it is very essential that our projects out there be kept on schedule. We believe that we are justified, from the standpoint of economy, in working with the present administration, of having those projects kept on schedule because they do not return anything to the Federal Treasury or any return on the investment until they are completed projects and generating power. We have particularly in mind the Dalles Dam, which, if the present recommendation of the Bureau of the Budget is effective, will be set back at least 1 year from the standpoint of bringing power on the line, and in that the comparatively small saving involved on an annual budget basis would be lost many times over in the actual power

revenues.

The same thing is true on the Chief Joseph Dam. On a budget cut of approximately $7 million, as estimated by competent engineers, we will lose some $8 million in 1 year of power revenues for a saving of the $7 million. We do not believe that is justified or is wisdom in the saving of money, and we do not believe that the people responsible for those decisions through the Bureau of the Budget, well, we cannot but believe that they did not look thoroughly at the picture, and we are hoping that this committee will take into consideration those items. and will restore them in order that the projects out there will be kept on schedule.

We feel definitely that we have demonstrated in the Northwest that the investment of Federal funds in our multiple-purpose fund project has been a high-grade investment, and the return of that money to the Treasury is a high record of which we are very, very proud.

Senator KNOWLAND. Do you have some photographs you care to leave with the committee?

Mr. WEST. No; I do not. I was just trying to refresh my memory on the subject, Senator.

NO BUDGET RECOMMENDATION

I have appeared before this committee for some time, in the past 3 years, on the question of Ice Harbor Dam on the Snake River. That is a project that did not receive any recommendation from the Bureau of the Budget. But I believe in the past the Senate has taken its own. independent action, and at times when they felt it was in the national interest you have initiated projects and put in sums regardless of the lack of recommendation from the Bureau of the Budget. Just briefly, to refresh your memory, the Senate has placed the Ice Harbor project in the rivers and harbors appropriation bill for 3 years running. The conferees of the House have not gone along with the recommendation. It has been a question of the emotional position of some Members of the House regarding the fishery resources. I think the record is very definitely clear by the United States Fish and Wildlife and by others that a project of that kind can be constructed without irreparable damage to the fishing industry. And in that connection, I believe you were here and a member of this committee, Senator Knowland, when we initiated the McNary project. The same emotional appeal was directed toward that project, and, in fact, carried on for the third and the fourth appropriation. But in your very sage wisdom that project went ahead, and today it is one of the fine projects there.

PLANNING EXPENDITURE

Ice Harbor project probably is the best planned, designed, and surveyed projects that the corps has down there of any authorized projects: I think in the neighborhood of some million and half dollars has been spent in planning. The Bureau of the Budget comes up with another $20,000 for survey money and planning money. The project has been kept up to date constantly, the cost indexes are current, and the project is ready to go, and we are in an appropriation schedule out in the Pacific Northwest with the last large appropriation on McNary getting out of the way this fiscal year, and Detroit Dam and Lookout project come into completion, the Albeni Falls project, this is the last

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