No coals?-No.

Do you know what the annual expense of the books may be?-Since our establishment it is so definite a sum we can hardly tell; the whole expense has been between sixty and seventy pounds in books.

Are the expenses of the other schools nearly the same?— Exactly; we do not pay the masters so much by 101. a year as we do in this school.

Do you find any want of education among the lower orders of the people?-We have scarcely a child but whose parents are unable to pay for their education. At the present time we are obliged to turn away about twenty children a week, who apply for admission, and we are unable to take in any more.

Did you understand that those poor children, whom you turned away, were wholly destitute of the means of educacation? I believe wholly so, and from their appearance I know they must be so.

Is there any indisposition in the parents in that neighbourhood to send their children to school?-Not the least, but quite the reverse; I have not a doubt but if our school was large enough to take 1000 children, we should have it full in a very short time.

Are the children in the school you have described prevented from coming, for want of clothing?-Not in that neighbourhood, we have not found any hardly; we have given them shoes now and then; they are very poor, chiefly the children of brewers and drayinen, but in general we have not found that an obstacle; they come, many of them, without shoes.

Is the catechism taught in the school?-Exactly the same as the national schools.

Are there many Dissenters ?-A great many.

How many may there be ?-It is impossible to tell; we ask no questions; they are all told that we send them to church; we do not ask them, when they come, whether they belong to the church or not, but they know that all who at tend the school must learn the catechism, and go to church.

What do you do with the Dissenters on Sundays?They all go to church; we have never met with any objection.

Do the committee understand rightly, that the Dissenters go to church?-A great many.

Of all descriptions?-Yes, as far as I know.

Do the Catholics go to church ?—There are no Catholics living in that neighbourhood; in our second school there are a great many Catholics.

Do the Catholics in that school go to church ?—Yes. How many children are there altogether?-Two hundred and twenty-five actually under education in that school, which is situated in Shoe-lane.

Do you know of your own knowledge that twenty of those are Catholics?-I cannot answer as to numbers; I believe there are many.

What reason have you to believe there are many among those children who are Catholics?-Because many of their parents have said they were.

How long have you known a boy, who was undoubtedly a Catholic, go to church regular, and learn the catechism? I cannot answer that question.

Have you ever known any one boy, who was undoubtedly a Catholic, go to church and learn catechism three months? -I should think a much longer time; when we first commenced, we found there were many Catholic boys who were admitted into the school, but the priests came and took them out. The parents have always been told, when they brought their children, that they were to go to church, and they made no objection.

Is it the same with respect to Dissenters from the church of England?-There are very few others who have stated what they were; they have stated that they went to chapel, but we have never asked any further question, for fear it should be an objection to them; on their admission into the school, they have a card given them, containing the rules. We have a third school, which consists of 154 children, in Fish-street, Doctors' Commons.

Are there many children uneducated in that neighbourhood?-I believe very few poor live in that neighbourhood.

What time, in your opinion, is the average period in which a boy will learn to read?—If a boy is attentive, in two years he will learn to read.

To read perfectly?—Yes.

To read a word of any length, and of any number of syllables?-Yes.

A boy would learn to read tolerably in a less time than that?-Yes, in less than a twelvemonth.

Have you any instances of adults learning to read?-We have one, and only one. Our children we take in at seven years of age and upwards.

Have you ever known instances of children, when they return home, teaching their parents to read ?—I have known it; we had an instance of a Black, that Mr. Beeston Long sent to us about six months ago, that did not know the sound of a letter, or the shape of a letter; he was taught

by a very little boy in the school, who did not exceed nine years of age; he left us after he had been about nine weeks in the school, and was then perfectly competent to read a chapter in the Bible.

Are there many charity schools in the district?—There are a great many more than there are children to fill in that particular district.

The admission of children into these charity schools being according to the sect of the parents?—Yes; they are different to the national schools.

Some of the charity schools take in all children ?—There are several that have joined with our school, that form a part of our national school.

Do they add their funds to yours?-They have no funds; they are supported chiefly by voluntary contributions, and we do not touch their funds at all; they continue to clothe their children as they did before, but their annual subscriptions we take.

Have you seen any improvement in the behaviour and morals of the children in that district, since the establishment of that school in Colenian-street ?-Very great indeed.

What assistance have you received from the general society?—None at all; our subscriptions are confined entirely to the city of London.

Mr. WILLIAM ALLEN called in, and examined.

You are treasurer to the British and Foreign School Society?—Yes.

How long have you been so?-About two years; but I have been virtually treasurer almost from the beginning of the society in 1808.

How long has your attention been turned to the education of the poor?-From the middle of the year 1808.

With whom did you co-operate at that time ?-With the late Joseph Fox; Sir John Jackson, M. P.; Joseph Foster, of Bromley, Middlesex; William Corston; and Thomas Sturge; who had formed themselves into a committee, for the purpose of assisting and promoting Joseph Lancaster's plan of education.

What were your first operations?-About the middle of the year 1808, I became first acquainted with the benevolent exertions of my late friend, Joseph Fox; previous to that period, I had merely paid my annual subscription to the Borough Road school, conducted by Joseph Lancaster, but had never attended particularly to the subject; when

informed of the interest taken in the concern by Joseph Fox, I inquired more minutely into the nature of the esta blishment, and visited it myself. I saw that it was an institution pregnant with the greatest benefits, not only to this country, but to the whole world; I saw a system in action capable of affording instruction to poor children, at the expense of from five to fifteen shillings per head per annum, according to the magnitude of the school, ranging from a thousand to a hundred boys; indeed a school of a thousand might be conducted at the expense of only four shillings and sixpence per head per annum. It appeared that as far back as the year 1798, Joseph Lancaster taught a few poor children in the Borough Road; himself and parents were in low circumstances, but he seemed to be actuated by a benevolent disposition, and to possess great talents for the education of youth; he was countenanced and supported by a few benevolent individuals; and, as the subscriptions were limited to a very small sum, he was obliged to devise the most œconomical plans. By a series of improvements, he at length demonstrated the possibility of instructing even a thousand children (if so many could be collected together in one room) by a single master; he divided his school into eight classes, each of which was managed by a monitor, whose duties were exactly prescribed to him, and who was made responsible for the good order of his class; over these a monitor-general was placed, who regulated the business of the whole school, under the immediate direction of the master. Upon Lancaster's plan, a single book was found sufficient for a whole school, the different sheets being put upon pasteboard, and hung upon the walls of the school. He avoided the expense of pens and paper in the first stages of education, by substituting slates; he also introduced the plan of teaching the younger children to form the letters in sand, which plan was borrowed, I believe, from Dr. Bell, who had imported it from India; he contrived to teach writing and spelling at the same time, and he made a single spelling-book serve for a whole school, however large. He taught arithmetic from lessons which he had constructed for the purpose, whereby the monitor might correctly teach the principles of it, even if he were not fully acquainted with them himself'; in this case also, one book of arithmetic served for the whole school. So that the expense of teaching on this plan, consists in the salary of the master or mistress, the rent of the school-room, and from ten to twenty pounds per annum, according to the size of the school, for the necessary apparatus. I was particularly struck with the liberality upon which the system was conducted; for, while the reading lessons consisted of extracts from the scriptures,

in the very words of the authorised version, no peculiar catechism or creed was forced upon the children thus promiscuously collected together, and who must obviously consist of those belonging to persons of different religious persuasions; and I could not but perceive at the same time, the immense advantages which would arise to the community by thus educating children of different religious persuasions together, inasmuch as it would tend to lessen those prejudices and animosities which often have been found so mischievous to society. The children might naturally be expected to acquire an attachment for each other, which they would, in many instances, carry with them through life. We all recollect that when a person whom we have not seen for twenty or thirty years past is introduced to us as a schoolfellow, the recollection of the circumstance brings with it generally claims of attachment and regard. At this period, Joseph Lancaster was involved in great pecuniary difficulties; his debts amounted to between 6000l. and 7000%. while his effects were estimated only at about 3,500/.; and if they had been sold, they would not probably have realized much more than a third part of that sum. Upon examination into the accounts, it appeared that Joseph Lancaster, in his ardour to propagate the system, had entered into pecuniary engagements which it was impossible for him to fulfil with the subscriptions he then had. Some time previously to this period, our venerable sovereign had condescended to give him a personal interview, and was so much impressed with the value of this simple and economical plan, and the probable benefits which the country and the world might derive from it, that he became an annual subscriber of 100/. and recommended the queen and other branches of the royal family also to become subscribers to a considerable amount. The prejudices which had been operating against the founder, had so far diminished the subscriptions in the beginning of the year 1808, that they amounted then to little more than those of the king and royal family. Joseph Fox saw that, unless a vigorous exertion was immediately made, the whole plan was in danger of being utterly lost. At this period but few schools upon the system existed in the country: the public were not aware of the value of the plan, and nothing but a bold and deci sive measure could possibly save it. Joseph Lancaster's creditors were at that moment harrassing him with legal proceedings; and it was under these circumstances that Joseph Fox advanced nearly 2000. or his own property, and made himself responsible for as much more, by bills drawn by him and accepted by William Corston, as were necessary to settle in full with all the creditors. This mea