report goes back indicating the facts as we see them in regard to those things.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Have you made any recommendation insofar as New York is concerned?

Mr. YANTIS. As Mr. Eliot has already told you, on various occasions those things have been called to attention of the appropriate authorities, and I would speak particularly of New York, where we would say labor is available, transportation is available, water facilities are available; but the question of war strategy from the defense angle is determined by the Army and not by this Board at all. So that they may overrule our suggestions on the basis of that.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Did your Board take into consideration Connecticut and New Jersey, only a few miles from New York, and in several minutes planes can reach any of those sections? Probably New York is protected far better than many places.

Mr. YANTIS. May I suggest Seattle or Bremerton, where I would consider there was more risk than at New York.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. We have housing facilities, transportation, labor, and everything else, and yet not any of them are sent there. For what reason I do not know.

Mr. HENDRICKS. They have a rule that it has to be 250 miles from the coast.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Well, I can show you places where it is not 50 miles, or not even 40 miles, that I know of.

Mr. HENDRICKS. I know, because I wanted to get this phosphate that Joe Starnes got, and they said "No; you are not 250 miles from the coast, and we cannot do it."

Mr. FITZPATRICK. We have a population of 7,000,000 people and at one time there were half a million unemployed. We have the buildings, the transportation, and everything of that kind; yet, for some unknown reason, they have sent it out to isolated sections of the country where it costs a good deal more money than it would to establish it close to the city of New York.

Mr. DELANO. This plat shows where the plants have actually been located. The great density is right down here indicating).

Mr. STARNES. The great density is right around that point he is talking about-in the Midwest and Great Lakes.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. No; it is not in New York.

Mr. DELANO. It is in the general New York area.

Mr. STARNES. It is in what the Army and the Navy call the New York area; it is mostly concentrated in that area.

Mr. ELIOT. Mr. Fitzpatrick, I do not have it here, but could I send you some samples of some of the recommendations which we made, which do include the New York area?

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I would appreciate it very much.

Mr. ELIOT. We will do that.

INCREASE REQUESTED FOR REGULAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE ACTIVITIES

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Eliot, I have been through this justification you have given us, rather hurriedly, and, as I see the picture you are asking for very large increases all along the line as compared with a year ago; to be exact, $1,400,000 as compared with $774,422 appropriated, to which was added $243,000 from the Presidential

81710-43- -5

fund. You are asking an increase in your so-called regular activities. from $534,422 to $650,000; and an increase in your so-called national defense activities from $200,000 to $725,000.

Your departmental personnel jumps up from 149 to 181; your personnel in the field jumps to 103 from 169. And your other obligations show an increase from $119,000 to $153,000.

We discussed last year the apparent difficulty of distinguishing between the so-called regular functions and the so-called national defense functions, but why should not your regular functions be slashed instead of showing a 25-percent increase, in addition to the increase you are asking for national defense functions?

Mr. ELIOT. The regular functions, as we discussed them last year, as you say, are very closely interrelated with the so-called defense functions. The stabilization act, which is the basis for the so-called regular activities, is an act which Congress passed in 1931 with the intention that there should be advance planning to avoid a depression; that public works should be planned ahead of time and arranged in an orderly manner so that they could be thrown in at once, in case there was another depression.

As I have said before, we are required to report at quarterly intervals. to the President on trends of employment so that we can look ahead and avoid a depression if we see it on the horizon.

Now, when you try to distinguish a general avoidance of a depression from avoidance of the particular depression which we now all fear immediately following the cessation of hostilities, it is a little difficult to tell which is which; which is the war or the post-war problem, and which is the regular problem of avoiding a depression anyway. That, I think, is the best I can do to try to sort out those two appropriations.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes; but you have been working on business trends and public works, etc., ever since you were set up, have you not?

Mr. ELIOT. Certainly, and always could have done much more, if Congress had given us more money.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Of course, if you are going to present it on those terms, it gets away from any standard of necessity.

Mr. ELIOT. Cannot it be looked at, Congressman, on the basis of insurance? We were figuring very roughly, coming down in the taxi this morning, that this request of ours is one one-thousandth of 1 percent of the budget which the President is presenting today. That is insurance against a depression which may cost sixty or one hundred billion, as the last depression cost.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. And is it not a fact that many of the Members of Congress and businessmen throughout the country are demanding today some planning, so that it will take care of things after the war? Is not that one of the great things they are discussing today all over the country?

Mr. ELIOT. And on both sides of the Capitol.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Yes. Members are getting up on the floor and want committees appointed to prepare for something after the war. Mr. YANTIS. Your expenses for the Army and Navy, of course, increase in time of emergency and the country generally, as you have

pointed out, sir, feels we face the prospect of a serious emergency in the post-war period. We are borne down by requests

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I was going to interject there that if the various agencies and departments of the Government are doing their job, everyone of them is looking forward to that, and everyone of them is planning to offset that.

Mr. YANTIS. Yes, sir; and we try to integrate and cooperate with them and see that it is done. The country is hungry for leadership. They want to see the pattern, they want to see the relationship between the different plans, and we get more requests than we can possibly fill. Mr. FITZPATRICK. They want recommendations from all the departments of the Government.

Mr. YANTIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. And that is what you are trying to do-to make that selection?

Mr. YANTIS. We think the job is an extremely important thing. Mr. DENNISON. Besides, there are a great number of projects in which two or more of the departments, and often the State departments and local communities, are involved, and they need to be worked out with some crystallization of several points of view. It has nothing to do with the way it is finally carried out, neither on the one side nor the other. And we have fulfilled that function for the last seven or eight years, and there are still those projects to be done.

INFORMATION AND PUBLICATION

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Now, on page 7 of your give a table of the proposed allocations of funds. heading "General overhead," you have $42,000 for publication" as compared with $40,000 last year. item represent?

justification, you Under the first "information and What does that

Mr. ELIOT. That is in reverse; you are reading the table in the wrong direction.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes, I beg your pardon.

Mr. ELIOT. The first column is for 1942.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Yes; that is $40,000 for this year and $42,000 for last year and $42,000 for 1942?

Mr. ELIOT. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is that item?

Mr. ELIOT. That is the work of the section which prepares these reports for the printer, does the technical editorial work on the reports and seeing them through the printing process; then the distribution of information and reports in accordance with the requests that come in. It also supplies information to the Board and the staff through the library and other informational services.

PUBLICATIONS

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have set forth in some detail, I think, later on in this justification, what those publications are?

Mr. ELIOT. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Have you given us anything that will show either the cost which I have asked for in previous years, or the number of copies distributed and where they are distributed, for each of these various publications?

Mr. ELIOT. I have that for the things issued this last year; I have a record here this morning of the number of copies issued and distributed.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Showing where they go?

Mr. ELIOT. In this particular short table I have here, it does not give where they went. I can get that for you. You mean by general groups so many to institutions, so many to industry, so many to professors, and so many to other kinds of people; is that what you

want?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I want to get some general idea of where all of these publications are being distributed. Are any of them paid for, or are they all distributed gratis?

Mr. ELIOT. A very considerable number are paid for through the regular process of the Superintendent of Documents. I could get that division for you, too.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I think we ought to have that for the record. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Does that money go into the Treasury of the United States, or does it go back into your fund?

Mr. ELIOT. It goes to the Treasury.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. So you would not have any record of that amount?

Mr. ELIOT. NO. Do you want it for all of them, Mr. Wigglesworth, or just the ones issued this last year? I have here the materials issued during the last year.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is adequate, I think.

Mr. ELIOT. I will supply that.

(The material requested is as follows:)

1 To make this supplementary showing as quickly as possible, sales figures for only 1 each of the above types of reports, as examples, requested from the Superintendent of Documents. All above reports are, of course, for sale by his office.

2 Reports of technical nature, research reports, etc., formerly were printed in 5,000 edition. Following suggestion of Interdepartmental Committee on Printing and Processing and the Bureau of the Budget, we have reduced edition of such reports to 3,500 in the last year wherever possible.

3 500 to 2.800 is the printing for each of 10 small regional reports. Majority of edition turned over to regional offices for distribution.

Two figures in the column "Number printed" indicate reprint of pamphlets.]

• Wider interest reason for 3,000. Standard technical paper printing about 2,000.

Records of distribution of reports of the National Resources Planning Board are not maintained so that they show types, kinds, or classes of individuals or organizations to whom reports are given. Rather, we maintain an overall alphabetical card file by individuals, instead of by reports, which is designed to keep track of the total distribution of each of our principal reports and to avoid duplication in the filling of requests. From mailing lists and from the knowledge and experience of those who deal with distribution, it is possible to make an approximation of the percentages of our major reports (those in the first group above) distributed on the basis of requests from the following kinds of persons and organizations:

Federal, State, and local governmental units.
Business and industrial concerns and individuals.

Percent

15

10

Citizen groups (Young Men's Christian Association, Rotary, chambers of commerce)

5

Technical and professional groups (organized groups of engineers, economists, administrators, fiscal officers, etc.)..

10

Technical and professional individuals..

20

Educational units or individuals__

Libraries___

20

National Resources Planning Board administrative purposes (committees, officers, staff, and regional offices) __

The above proportions will vary with each report, naturally, in relation to the subject matter. Thus, in the instance of Transportation and National Policy, business and industrial interest will run higher than it does in the Pecos River Report, or National Resources Development. The citizen group interest in the Transportation Report will run lower than it will in the Pecos River Report, which is of widespread citizen concern in a local area.

Distribution of pamphlets follows a similar pattern for the initial Nation Resources Planning Board distribution to those on mailing lists, with a higher percentage of educators represented. These pamphlets are also utilized by other Government agencies. For example, distribution of "post-war planning" as of January 1, 1943, was 41,714. Of this number, 11,000 were handled by the Bureau of Public Inquiry of the Office of War Information, 6,800 by Agriculture, and 5,616 by the Office of Education.

The publications in the technical paper series are put out to make technical working information available to professional and technical workers in the fields covered. Thus, almost all of the distribution is to this type of individual or to libraries they can utilize.

All of these publications are for sale by the Superintendent of Documents. Copies sold are in addition to the distribution covered above. In view of the desirability of filing this supplementary material as quickly as possible, sales figures for one each of the above types of publications (reports, pamphlets, and technical papers) were requested from the Superintendent of Documents.