conservation of motor trucks and busses. Under the Second Deficiency Appropriation Act, 1941, the amount appropriated for this activity was $110,000 and under the Independent Offices Appropriation Act, 1943, $232,315 was appropriated for this activity of which amount $87,500 was made immediately available. However, because this act was not approved until near the end of the 1942 fiscal year, we expended less than $10,000 of the amount authorized to be expended during that fiscal year. At the present time we have a force of 42 service agents. The amount of the estimate for the next fiscal year is $299,000 or an increase of $66,685 over the current appropriation, of which amount approximately $10,000 was expended during the fiscal year 1942. This increase is to provide for 8 additional service agents so as to bring their total number to 50 and to provide for 11 additional CAF-2 clerks in the field so as to bring the total to 15 and to provide for one CAF-9 senior clerk in the Washington office.

Provision is also made for an additional amount of $26,457 for travel and subsistence. The service agents are necessarily in a travel status for a large portion of the time, since they must keep the Commission informed regarding transportation conditions in their immediate teriitory and must be prepared to go to other than their assigned territories should transportation difficulties make that necessary.

Mr. WOODRUM. I wanted to get those figures in the record at the beginning of the hearing, Mr. Bartel. Now, have you any general statement further that you would like to make about the work of the Commission?

Mr. BARTEL. The statement that is already in the record, Mr. Chairman, I think covers quite fully the activities of each bureau of the Commission. It has been broken down also by sections, showing the work which each of these bureaus and sections has done during the past year, and showing the necessity for the appropriation which we are seeking.

I have attempted to go into considerable detail in this prepared statement, so that unless there are some questions somebody desires to ask I think the statement already in the record covers our situation.

PRESENT AND PROPOSED ADDITIONAL NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES, WASHINGTON OFFICE

Mr. WOODRUM. You give the number of employees as of October 31, 1942, as 788, according to your justification. The Budget estimate provides for 906 employees for 1944. You say that you do not propose to fill these vacancies except where found absolutely necessary. Mr. BARTEL. That is correct, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. What is the need of appropriating further if you do not presently see any need for those positions?

Mr. BARTEL. What we had in mind is this, Mr. Chairman. We do not know when the present emergency will terminate; that is, when the war will end. When the war suspends, we anticipate we will require a great deal of additional assistance, more than we have now. In other words, we have curtailed to some extent some of the work of the commission for the duration which it will be necessary for us to pick up just as soon as the emergency ends.

If the emergency should end before the end of the next fiscal year, we would have some necessity for increasing our force. So we thought it would be preferable to have the amount appropriated, and in the event we needed it, we could have it, instead of having to come in here possibly with a supplemental estimate or a deficiency request.

We have set up, as I have stated in my statement, for this fiscal year, in our general appropriation, a reserve of $100,000 to take care of any contingencies that might arise during this year.

ESTIMATED COST OF OVERTIME PAY OF DEPARTMENTAL AND

FIELD EMPLOYEES

(See p. 118)

We do not expect we will have to disturb that, but in case we do we will have it. We do not know at this time just how much the increase will be under the recent increase of pay bill.

Of course, that will have to come out of the current appropriation, as we understand it.

Mr. WOODRUM. How does that come out for the current fiscal year, 1943?

Mr. BARTEL. I do not know just what it will amount to. Some of our pay rolls are on a monthly basis.

Mr. SWITZER. It will amount to over a million dollars. The pay roll, which includes practically the entire District of Columbia, and which ran from the 22d of last month to the 6th of this month on an annual basis was $645,176.12 overtime.

Mr. BARTEL. Are you speaking now of the general appropriation? Mr. SWITZER. The appropriation for the entire commission. Mr. BARTEL. What is the figure for the general appropriation? Mr. SWITZER. I do not have it for the general appropriation. Mr. WOODRUM. For the whole activity it will be about $1,000,000? Mr. SWITZER. It will be approximately $645,000 for the District of Columbia and $404,000 for the field service, running over a million dollars on an annual basis.

Mr. WOODRUM. That is for the fiscal year 1943?

Mr. CASE. Are your people on the 10-percent increase or the overtime basis?

Mr. SWITZER. We are on the 8-hour overtime basis.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. What is your total pay roll, when you say that the increase would be a million dollars?

Mr. SWITZER. The total pay roll is over $7,000,000. My figure shows $7,851,000. That includes some service men who are carried on the rolls.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. This overtime is paid to those receiving less than $5,000 a year.

Mr. SWITZER. That is right.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. It is paid to those receiving up to $2,900 a year. Mr. BARTEL. That is correct.

Mr. SWITZER. They are paid time and a half. That is why it seems out of proportion.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. It is time and a half for the extra hours?
Mr. SWITZER. Yes.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. For the 8 extra hours, they get 12 hours pay?
Mr. SWITZER. Yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Even at that, I do not see how the figure would come out. How many of your personnel would receive the benefit of that?

Mr. SWITZER. I do not have that broken down. All of our pay rolls are not completed, as the Secretary has said. This one that I gave you gentlemen, $645,000, was for the departmental service, which we have actually paid. The $404,000 for the field has not yet been paid, but we are figuring on that now.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You have already paid $645,000?

Mr. SWITZER. That is on the yearly rate. This is a yearly rate, not the monthly rate. The semi-monthly rate that we have paid is $26,862.13.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Mr. Chairman, I think it would be well to get the exact figure in the record. This approximation of $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 is misleading to the Members of Congress and the public. We ought to have the exact information. This is just a guess. Mr. SWITZER. This is not guessing, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. We ought to be able to get the accurate figures. Mr. BARTEL. We shall be glad to put them in the record, Mr. Congressman.

Estimated cost of overtime on annual basis

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you anticipate having to ask for a supplemental

to take care of 1943?

Mr. BARTEL. I am hoping not.

Mr. WOODRUM. You are trying to absorb it?

Mr. BARTEL. We are trying to absorb it; yes, sir, out of most of our appropriations. There would be one or two as to which we will have to ask for a supplemental.

What I have in mind particularly is "Safety", "Locomotive Inspection", and "Signals", possibly, because they are running pretty close to the last penny.

PROVISION AFFECTING SALARIES OF THE COMMISSIONERS

Mr. WOODRUM. I would like to ask Mr. Mahaffie about section 2 in the independent offices bill as it is carried. Have you anything to say on that; that is, whether you think it should be continued or what your views are on it? Section 2 is the section that cuts the basic salary of the Con missioners of the Interstate Commerce Commission, the Tariff Commission, and the Maritime Commission back to $10,000. Would you like to say anything on that subject, Mr. Mahaffie?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. Yes; I should. We have long thought that the Congress, having established the pay for a position of this character it would be appropriate perhaps for that salary to be paid without continuing this legislative provision in the appropriation bill. If the committee would agree with that, we think that is sound.

The salary of this position was started back in 1887 at $7,500. It was increased to $10,000 by the Hepburn Act. The Transportation Act of 1920 increased it to $12,000, and the various economy acts in the early thirties made reductions. With a 15 percent reduction at one time, it got down as low as $8,500. Then the salary scale came back to $9,500 in 1934, and since 1935 there has been a legislative provision, the one to which you have just referred, providing that during the succeeding year the salary rate shall be only $10,000.

Perhaps I ought not to say this, but we think that a position like this ought to carry the salary that the Congress established for it in the permanent law. And if the committee agrees and cares to go on that theory, it would be sound, we think.

Mr. WOODRUM. That would affect the salaries of only the Commissioners?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. That is correct. Congress appropriates every year for a number of directors at the same rate as for the Commissioners. If it is to be assumed that the Commissioner has more responsibility, that makes for a little discrepancy in the set-up.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many Commissioners are there?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. Eleven. Of course, we have at the moment, I may say, an inactive Commissioner, Commissioner Eastman, who is Director of the O. D. T., but who is still officially a Commissioner in our organization, but who is relieved from the service, except if he ever has to break a tie, which has occurred only one time or two. is carried on our pay roll, and to that extent we have only 10 Commissioners regularly working.

He

Mr. WOODRUM. In other words, it would make a difference of $22,000 a year?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. That is correct.

Mr. WOODRUM. Which I imagine you could absorb if the committee removed the limitation?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. We would undertake to do so.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You said that one of the economy bills cutting your salary 15 percent brought you down to $8,500. You must have been receiving $10,000 then.

Mr. MAHAFFIE. June 30, 1932, the Economy Act brought us down to $10,000, and in 1933, there was an additional cut by general Executive order of April 1.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I have always believed that where we got men well qualified for the position, the Government ought to pay them just about what they would get outside in private business.

Mr. MILLER. If I may supplement that, Mr. Chairman, what has disturbed me to some extent is that I know we lost one of our commissioners on account of the salary matter. I am afraid that in the future we might not be able to get men as desirable, at $10,000, as we might at $12,000. Of course, when a man comes to work for the Government he expects to get less than in private life. But a difference of $2,000, particularly now, would mean a great deal, especially to a man who is giving a a larger salary, to come into the Government service, to make a career for himself, so to speak. That is rather disturbing, I think.

Of course, there are always plenty of men that would come in at $10,000, but the question is whether you can get the timber that we need.

Now, with the work that is coming on the Commission, with parts III and IV it means you have got to have men of great ability.

ADDED RESPONSIBILITIES AND DUTIES OF THE COMMISSION

Mr. WOODRUM. Will you say just a word about the new duties that Congress has imposed on the Commission in the last year or two, Mr. Mahaffie? It has added to your responsibilities and duties considerably?

Mr. MAHAFFIE. Part III, that I have mentioned, is the part of the act that confers on the Commission the job of regulating water carriers; that is, coastwise, intercoastal, and inland water carriers. It does not include carriers in foreign trade.

Theretofore there had been only partial regulation. The Maritime Commission, as you will recall, had regulated coastwise and intercoastal, to some extent. But Congress greatly expanded the scope of the regulation of those activities and also instituted a system of regulating inland waterway transport.

Under that we had initially perhaps the most difficult thing of all, which was the determination of "grandfather rights." The Congress provided that a man who was operating on a certain date, or began operations within a certain period after the critical date was entitled to rights without the necessity of making a showing of public convenience and necessity.

For new operations, instituted after those dates, public convenience and necessity has to be shown. The determination of those matters, along with, under part III, the determination of a rather complicated series of exemptions, has led to a great deal of work by the Commission. It is all set out in detail in our justifications; the number of applications we have under each of these various sections and the number of reports we have so far had to issue, and the accumulation of work yet to be dealt with.

I shall not attempt to summarize that because you have there the exact figures.

Now, those activities I have spoken of are handled, so far as the public is concerned and so far as the prime responsibility of the Com mission is concerned, by a bureau that we created. We have detailed out the balance of the work, so far as we can, to the existing bureaus. For instance, the Bureau of Formal Cases holds the hearings on these waterway cases and prepares the reports. The administrative work is handled by the Bureau of Water Carriers and Freight Forwarders. We get the advantage of having the established bureaus doing a great deal of the work.

These are

The same is true of tariffs that these water carriers file. handled in the established bureau handling tariff matters, and so on, through the work of the Commission; accounts, statistics, and so forth, relating to that activity being handled by the established bureaus, and substantially with no increase in the force of those bureaus.

As I have stated, when we were confronted with the administration of part IV of the act, which became law only very recently, we changed the name of that water carrier bureau to make it include freight forwarders, and added an assistant director who is directly in charge of the freight forwarding work of the Bureau, responsible under the