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practical experience, are being put in positions of this kind when they have only some book knowledge.

Mr. ROSIER. The lowest classifications for the ranger service are what are known as junior rangers. They are men receiving $1,800 a year. They are classified under junior professional assistant, which includes junior range examiners, junior foresters, and so forth. The minimum requirement is that they must be graduates of a recognized school, specializing in the particular branch they may select. They may take examinations before receiving their degrees, but must have received their degrees before civil-service eligibility is granted.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. A man who has had practical experience in this sort of work, it seems to me, would be better qualified than some young fellow who has just come out of school.

Mr. ROSIER. That is determined by the Civil Service Commission. We have never had an examination of our own. We select eligibles from the established registers.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. But you tell the Civil Service Commission what kind of investigations they are to make, and what their duties are to be. Then they prepare an examination, and that particular man with practical experience all over the country, because of what they put in the civil-service examination, must pass that test. I think it Is an unfortunate situation. Of course, I am in favor of civil service, but not to the extreme that a man with practical experience, unless he has a degree from some college, cannot qualify in the examination.

Mr. ROSIER. We found that to be true, and we did put on some temporaries. They have done excellent work. However, we cannot govern it. In fact, we have never had an examination given for our Division, and we do not set up the standards. In asking for these examiners, we told the Civil Service Commission what they would be expected to do.

Mr. LEAVY (interposing). Do they say that the man must be a college graduate before he can qualify to take the examination? Mr. ROSIER. The civil-service examination; yes, sir.

Mr. BURLEW. We did not in the instance I referred to, when the Civil Service Commission could not supply them. We took them on an examination of our own. When we established the Grazing Service, we had a grazier examination, and the qualifications required were rather high from the educational standpoint. Then we considered it better to put it on a more practical plane.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Those men you took on are only there temporarily? Mr. SMITH. We can only keep them temporarily, because they did not take the civil-service examination for the position they are now occupying.

Mr. BURLEW. They can qualify under the civil service.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. But if they do not have the necessary educational background, or meet the educational requirements, they cannot take the examination?

Mr. BURLEW. That is right.

Mr. RICH. With reference to the statement of Mr. Fitzpatrick, may I say that I quite agree with him. I do not think that everybody should be required to have a college degree before entering a service where, as in this service, practical experience is more important. I agree with Mr. Fitzpatrick that we can get more practical men, and men better

qualified to do this kind of work than an inexperienced man who has a college degree.

Mr. BURLEW. We have training in the organization, and a boy just out of college is permitted to enter the service and can qualify. Of course, those positions are put in the regular brackets, and they are under supervision. They are supposed to acquire experience throughout the year, on top of their college education.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Could you handle the situation to greater advantage by saying that those who have had practical experience, or who have been associated with the departments, may be considered somewhat along the line of preference, where practical experience is counted as so much in the examination?

Mr. BURLEW. That is usually the case. Two years' experience will take the place of 1 year at college, and 3 years' experience will take the place of a certain number of years in college. I think that is generally true throughout the service.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I believe that in order to qualify for a position paying only $1,200 a year, the Civil Service Commission requires that he must have had 2 years at college, or they will not accept his application.

PENDING HOMESTEAD-ENTRY CASES

Mr. LEAVY. I notice from your justifications that you still have pending 1.626 homestead-entry cases. Is that due to the fact that homestead entries can no longer be made, or practically so?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir: I believe that is the case.

Mr. LEAVY. Then these cases are, of necessity, old cases, are they not?

Mr. ROSIER. These are some cases in which they have not perfected the entries.

Mr. BURLEW. A strange thing is that these cases cause more work to the General Land Office today than that formerly involved in handling a homestead application.

Mr. ROSIER. We make the cases up when they come to us now. There are several thousand unperfected homesteads in existence, and we take these cases when they come to us for investigation. We received in the last 6 months 490 cases.

Mr. LEAVY. In the ordinary course of business, when will you reach them?

Mr. SMITH. We have been concentrating on section 15 work. I think that work is in such shape now that we will be able to make a drive on other types of work.

Mr. LEAVY. Now the prospect is for the ultimate disappearance of the homestead cases entirely?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. LEAVY. Do you have any other activities that are being discontinued, or are you taking on any activities?

Mr. ROSIER. Yes, sir; some of the work that we are doing now, or are getting under way, is in connection with the bombing reserve in California, in which there are several hundred mineral claims. I do not know exactly how many, but there is a great number of mining claims that must be passed on.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Do you care to make any further statement with reference to this appropriation?

Mr. SMITH. With reference to Mr. Rosier's statement, I wanted to refer to two large jobs we have recently undertaken in California. One of them is the Muroc bombing reserve; the other the Mojave antiaircraft firing range.

Mr. RICH. With respect to the homesteaders, what seems to be the difficulty that prevents your office from going over the records, and giving them a quick report, so they will know whether their claims will be established?

Mr. BURLEW. That, of course, means a field examination. We have all sorts of practical difficulties.

Mr. RICH. Is it because they have a lot of red tape?

Mr. BURLEW. No, sir; it is not due to that.

Mr. RICH. What I am trying to get at is this: Is there any way we might suggest by which the work could be simplified, in order that these cases that have been pending for 4 or 5 years, or where it takes 4 or 5 years to adjust them, can be handled in a shorter time? Where you have someone who wants to settle, and he is held up 4 or 5 years, he becomes discouraged. We want to encourage them to settle on homesteads and get permanent possession at the earliest possible

moment.

REDUCTION IN NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You have cut down the number of your employees. There seems to be a difference of 12.

Mr. ROSIER. We are asking for all that the Bureau of the Budget told us we could ask for.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. According to this, you would have to lay off

12 men.

Mr. ROSIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I cannot understand this. If we are going to decrease employment in connection with the Federal Government, I do not know what will happen on the outside.

TRANSFER OF EMPLOYEES TO BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Is it a fact that in this apparent reduction of $68,400, a number of the employees are actually transferred to the Indian Bureau?

Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; there are 10 auditors who are being transferred to the Office of Indian Affairs.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Has the Bureau of Indian Affairs increased its service?

Mr. SMITH. I do not know.

Mr. BURLEW. They have transferred the amount with the positions. Mr. FITZPATRICK. They transfer the amount with the employees? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I do not get that. Under this appropriation, you take care of these employees?

Mr. BURLEW. Yes, sir; and for 1941 they are being transferred to the Indian Office. The work of the Division of Investigation affects materially our public relations. Where you have cases pending affecting property rights, some of them 2 and 3 years old, the individuals affected naturally want to get them settled. Here are about 9,000

cases pending that are between 2 and 3 years old. If they are not settled, it is a great inconvenience to the various claimants on the public domain all through the West.

Mr. LEAVY. Many of the Indians and other parties at interest die or move away, and they become discouraged due to the inactivity of the Government.

SUMMARY OF CASES RECEIVED, PENDING, AND CLOSED SINCE JULY 1, 1939

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Is there any further statement you wish to make, Mr. Smith?

Mr. SMITH. I would like to leave a statement showing a further decrease in our present case load, which decrease I am thankful to say was only made possible because of the fact that the committee gave us an increase in our appropriation last year. The statement covers the period from the end of the last fiscal year to January 1. 1940. I thought that possibly the committee would like to have these figures.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I think they would be valuable. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

Summary of monthly work reports, by items, from July 1, 1939, to Jan. 1, 1940

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INVESTIGATIONS IN CONNECTION WITH ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY IN RE COLUMBIA RIVER RESERVOIR

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Can you tell us what investigations you have made in connection with the Bonneville reservoirs at this stage? Mr. SMITH. We have not performed any work at Bonneville. Mr. FITZPATRICK. You mentioned Bonneville.

Mr. SMITH. The reference should have been to Grand Coulee. We have a number of claims that we are endeavoring to settle at this time.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. What are they?

Mr. SMITH. We have made several mineral appraisals in connection with the acquisition of property.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. What are the claims for?

Mr. SMITH. For property which will be partially or wholly inundated by the waters of the Columbia River Reservoir. We endeavor to determine the potential mineral values and negotiate with the owners for the most favorable settlement when negotiation is considered advisable.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. What I want to get at is this: Are you taking over the land where the mining claim is located?

Mr. SMITH. The Bureau of Reclamation desires the land.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You still do not get my question: How does this mine owner come in unless you take his property?

Mr. SMITH. That is what the Bureau of Reclamation would like to do. They would like to acquire the property.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Did you not know when you went into there whether you would flood it? It seems to me that you would find out about that in the beginning. They have an engineering department, and they could have reached a price for the land before this happened.

Mr. SMITH. These cases are isolated cases that might not necessarily have been anticipated when the work began.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. They should have known when the work was actually completed where the high-water mark would be, and whether the property would have been flooded. The engineers should have determined that.

Mr. SMITH. I understand the Bureau of Reclamation engineer says it will be flooded.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. They should have known that before they started the dam. Do you not think that was the time to go into it, instead of now?

Mr. BURLEW. They acquire land through the process of condemnation or purchase, but these mining claims are something else. That is where a man is allowed so much for the work he has done.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. No matter whether the man makes an investment or not?

Mr. BURLEW. That is one of the questions we investigate.

Mr. LEAVY. In these mining claims, they have not yet acquired title. They have only made filings and done some assessment work year after year. Of course, they are very optimistic people and feel that they have a mine. It is a question whether it will be a mine or not be a mine.

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