Mr. HEWITT. That is possible; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. We have a big Executive Calendar, and I know we cannot finish the hearings, because I know there are other questions of Mr. Hewitt. I wonder if you couldn't come back tomorrow, Mr. Hewitt. We could meet this afternoon except the Japanese Treaty is supposed to come up and that will require the presence of members of this committee on the floor. We were told last night that it would follow the Independent Offices Appropriation bill. We have some other treaties, too, on the Executive Calendar and I wonder if you can come back and complete your testimony tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. Mr. HEWITT. I would be very glad to, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. (Whereupon, at 11:35 a.m., the committee went into executive session.) AMISTAD DAM AND RESERVOIR WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1960 UNITED STATES SENATE, Washington, D.C. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in room F-53, U.S. Capitol Building, Senator J. W. Fulbright (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Fulbright, Green, Sparkman, Mansfield, Lausche, Church, Hickenlooper, Wiley, Aiken, and Carlson. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. We had a late session last night and the night before and I am afraid we will not get many members here this morning, Mr. Hewitt, but I expect we had better start. We are resuming the hearing on H.R. 12263. Senator Green, do you care to ask any questions at this point? You go ahead if you care to. MEXICO'S INTEREST IN THE PROJECT Senator GREEN. Well, yes. I think the committee, at least those who are here today, would like to have a clear statement of the relations of the Mexican Government and the U.S. Government in this matter. STATEMENT OF LELAND H. HEWITT, COMMISSIONER, INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY AND WATER COMMISSION, UNITED STATES AND MEXICO, ACCOMPANIED BY MELVILLE E. OSBORNE, OFFICER IN CHARGE, MEXICAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE Mr. HEWITT. We have here this morning, Senator, a representative of the State Department, Mr. Osborne, who, I think can answer your question. Senator GREEN. He is an official of the Government. Mr. OSBORNE. Mr. Chairman, the Government of Mexico is very anxious that this dam be completed, and the President of Mexico, when our President visited Acapulco Senator GREEN. Well, perhaps I might begin there with a question. What is the interest of the Mexican Government in this enterprise? Mr. OSBORNE. The purpose of the dam, of course, is for flood control. Senator GREEN. Yes. Mr. OSBORNE. The floods that have occurred in the past have been damaging to Mexican lives and property as they have been to Ameri 15 can lives and property, and in protecting ourselves against these floods, we favor the dam. Mexico, to protect its citizens and its property, also favors the dam. AMISTAD DAM'S RELATIONSHIP TO FALCON AND ANZALDUAS DAMS Senator GREEN. Well, there is a dam there already, is there not? Mr. OSBORNE. Not at this point; no, sir. Senator GREEN. But there are other similar dams, are there not? Mr. OSBORNE. There is a dam downstream. Perhaps Colonel Hewitt had better explain that. Mr. HEWITT. If you will look at the map on the wall, Senator, you will see that there is a dam located at the present time at Falcon. This is a dam with a similar purpose to the proposed Amistad Dam which is to be located in the vicinity of Del Rio. There is another dam a little bit lower down on the river called Anzalduas Dam. Those are the only dams which exist along the border between Texas and Mexico. Senator GREEN. Then the respective rights of the U.S. Government and the Mexican Government will be the same under this proposed legislation as those in legislation governing the other dams. Mr. HEWITT. It will be the same as in the legislation covering Falcon. Senator GREEN. Yes. Mr. HEWITT. Anzalduas is a different kind of a dam. It is for flood control only, and there, there is no storage. So the situation is slightly different than it is at Falcon or at the proposed Amistad site. Senator GREEN. The fundamental rights of the two countries have already been recognized. Mr. HEWITT. They are laid out in the 1944 treaty, sir. Senator GREEN. Yes, and similar rights will be given under this bill. Mr. HEWITT. Yes, sir. Senator GREEN. I wanted to know that before with your explanation. Thank you. you went any further IMPORTANCE OF PROPOSED PROJECT Mr. OSBORNE. I have no prepared statement. I am merely here in support of the testimony of the Commissioner and to state the interest of Mexico and of the Department of State in seeing that this dam is completed to protect lives and property as soon as possible. We have a formal statement, as I alluded to before, from the Presidents of the two countries urging that the steps be taken to complete this dam as soon as possible. In that connection, our President urged the Congress to authorize an agreement for the construction of this dam in his budget message. We feel that this is an important matter in our relations with Mexico, and important to save the lives of the citizens of both countries, and their property. COSTS OF THE DAM Senator GREEN. What are the respective rights of the U.S. Government and the State of Texas government in this matter? Mr. HEWITT. In that connection, Senator, the cost of the dam is divided in proportion to the conservation capacity provided for each country. Însofar as the dam proper, we, in the United States, will pay 56 percent of the cost of the dam, and Mexico will pay about 43 percent of the cost of the dam. This is in proportion Senator GREEN. What becomes of the other 7 percent? Mr. HEWITT. I believe that that adds to approximately 100 percent, sir. Senator GREEN. What? Mr. HEWITT. I say 56 and 43 add approximately to a hundred. Senator GREEN. I thought you said 50. Senator HICKENLOOPER. One percent is slippage. [Laughter.] Mr. HEWITT. Well, there are some odd tenths which I didn't give you, sir. The cost of the dam proper is about $47 million. The United States will pay about $26 million in round figures. Senator GREEN. Yes. Mr. HEWITT. And they will participate, that is each country will participate approximately in that ratio in the benefits of conservation storage. The CHAIRMAN. What were those figures again? Give me those. Mr. HEWITT. The Mexican costs or the total costs. The CHAIRMAN. What you just said, just repeat it, the cost of the dam? Mr. HEWITT. The cost of the dam proper is $47,811,000. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. HEWITT. Of which the United States will pay 56.2 percent or $26,870,000. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. COSTS OF POWERPLANT FACILITIES What is the difference between that $26 million and the $72 million that we must pay here, that we would be authorizing? Mr. HEWITT. I will include a table there, and will read it so that it will be clear. The cost of the dam is $26,870,000. The power intake and penstocks cost $2,179,000. The power plant Senator HICKENLOOPER. Just a little slower. Mr. HEWITT. Yes, sir. Senator HICKENLOOPER. Power intake and penstocks. Mr. HEWITT. $2,179,000; 50 percent of the cost of the powerplant is $15,217,000. The CHAIRMAN. I thought we were building our own powerplant. Mr. HEWITT. We are. The CHAIRMAN. Why the cost of it? Mr. HEWITT. The cost of the powerplant on this side of the river, built in accordance with the treaty provides whenever a powerplant is built, whether it is in one plant or two plants, the United States and Mexico share equally in the cost of the construction of the plant and equally in the power generated at the plants. The CHAIRMAN. Both plants? Mr. HEWITT. Yes, both plants. The CHAIRMAN. Our part would amount to what? RECOMMENDATION AGAINST FEDERAL CONSTRUCTION OF A POWERPLANT The CHAIRMAN. In that connection, this is a passage contained on page 81 in Senate Document 65 that disturbs me. In a letter the Power Commission advised the International Boundary and Water Commission that the dependable capacity of Amistad Dam would be zero for power purposes, but that energy could be marketed as steam replacement on existing utility systems. The International Boundary and Water Commission report recommends that the Federal Government not construct a powerplant but build penstocks and power intakes and offer for sale the energy from water for power generation. The House bill, on the other hand, provides for the construction, operation, and maintenance by the Federal Government of a powerplant. What is the view of the executive branch? Do they recommend we build this powerplant in the face of that judgment by the Power Commission that the dependable capacity is zero, or do they not? Mr. HEWITT. The House committee in their bill 12263The CHAIRMAN. I didn't ask about the House committee. is the position of the administration and the Power Commission? Mr. HEWITT. The Power Commission, I think, speaks for itself in the letter which they have prepared and submitted. The CHAIRMAN. What is that? Mr. HEWITT. That they do not consider that the expenditure of Federal funds for the construction of a powerplant is justified. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. That is what I wanted to get clear. Mr. HEWITT. The International Boundary and Water Commission in their report indicated that they were bound by the recommendations of the Federal Power Commission it The CHAIRMAN. Well, does it recommend that they not construct Mr. HEWITT. We did not recommend that a powerplant be constructed. The CHAIRMAN. Why, then, do you ask for the money to construct it? Mr. HEWITT. Because the House bill provided for that construction, sir, and we are supporting the House bill. Senator MANSFIELD. Mr. Chairman, could I ask a question there? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Senator MANSFIELD. Am I to understand that the Federal Power Commission recommended against the construction of Amistad Dam? Mr. HEWITT. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Just the powerplant. Senator MANSFIELD. Just the powerplant. Am I to understand that the International Boundary and Water Commission agrees with the Federal Power Commission? Mr. HEWITT. We felt that we were bound by their recommendation; yes, sir. |