but likely would produce a loss to the United States of water, in that title could and likely would be lost to water which otherwise would be U.S. water in Falcon, alone

While I realize that is an involved question, what I am trying to point out is that the necessity for conservation storage at Falcon is related to a treaty situation which is required in order for us to maintain what we now have, with Falcon alone.

Colonel HEWITT. I think you have said it very nicely, sir.

Mr. FASCELL. How about putting it in the English language? Are we going to have more water or less water?

Colonel HEWITT. Well, it is our opinion that with no conservation storage in Amistad, that water which would belong to the United States would flow to Falcon, and just as soon as the conservation space in Falcon pertaining to the United States was filled, then any remaining water which comes down the river automatically has its ownership transferred to Mexico, so that Mexico could retain its own water in Amistad and save a space in Falcon for U.S. water arriving there, to which it would obtain title once it reached the Falcon Reservoir. I don't know that that is any better.

Mr. FASCELL. Well, I think I get the general idea. If you hold it upstream and you overflow downstream that gives you a chance to hold everything you can get downstream?

Colonel HEWITT. There is a matter of the international ownership of the water. The treaty provides that when the conservation space in Falcon attributable to the United States is filled, any excess water which belongs to the United States and reaches Falcon, title to that water is transferred to Mexico.

Mr. FASCELL. Falcon can get all it can get by whatever limits are now imposed but can it lose anything? That is what I am trying to find out.

Colonel HEWITT. We lose to Mexico once our conservation storage is filled.

Mr. FASCELL. At both places?

Colonel HEWITT. Not at Amistad.

Mr. FASCELL. Just at Falcon?

Colonel HEWITT. Falcon. But if we have no storage space in Amistad, then necessarily our water goes down to Falcon. Mexico,. on the other hand, can hold their water in Amistad, leaving a large vacant volume in Falcon which just the minute it begins to be filled with U.S. water, title to this water then goes to Mexico.1

Mr. KILGORE. I would like to say in general response to the comment made by Mr. Jackson earlier that the area below the Diablo site, the Amistad site, is largely within my congressional district, so if there is any controversy which would develop, it would develop in my district and not in Mr. Fisher's.

I think it is a fair statement to make that there is no controversy with respect to the extreme need for the flood control protection that the Diablo or Amistad Dam would provide to all the areas of the river below.

Mr. JACKSON. I meant to make that clear in my statement. I am not questioning that in any way.

1 See app. III; supplemental information furnished by Colonel Hewitt, p. 268.

Mr. KILGORE. There is true here, as is frequently true in storage questions, that there is a diversity of opinion relating to water rights and water storage. These questions are essentially State questions.

It is my hope there will be no controversy here in this matter relating to the desirability of the structure. If there is any, it will relate solely to the matter of water rights and not to the matter of the desirability of the project itself.

Those are matters that we have been seeking to work out for some time. We are still seeking to work them out. We met in my office until 9 o'clock Saturday night and again yesterday. We are continuing to meet. This is a culmination of many years of meetings. Maybe it is a matter of eternal optimism, but at this point I could not say that there will be any controversy.

Again if there is any controversy, it will relate to the matter of water rights and not to a matter of desirability of the project inherent in the project itself.

Thank you.

Mr. SELDEN. Are there any further questions that subcommittee members would like to ask Colonel Hewitt?

Mr. Fisher, do you have any questions?

Mr. FISHER. I don't think so, Mr. Chairman.

Colonel Hewitt, in response to the questions about the hydroelectric power, cited a letter from Central Power & Light evaluating the falling water at $337,000 per year, and indicated that probably that could be made into a firm offer.

I call attention to the fact that in the bill I introduced, H.R. 8080, authorization is sought for the authority to lease the water. In the same provision, I included a preference clause. In other words, if it comes to a matter of selling or leasing the water, it will be a matter of the highest bidder under the most favorable conditions to the Government. It wouldn't be limited to one company or one purchaser, or if a cooperative expressed an interest in this, it would have some preference, things being equal, to bid on it.

Assuming it should not be found feasible for the Government to build a plant itself, about which you are to hear more testimony later on, I think it should be made clear that it is a matter of getting the best offer the Government can get. This water has considerable value. It is very valuable as a source of revenue for this conservation storage. Mr. FASCELL. I am glad to hear, that, Mr. Fisher. If it is that economical, maybe the REA's can get a loan.

Mr. FISHER. They are certainly interested.

Mr. FASCELL. I should imagine they are.

Colonel HEWITT. If the Congress decides a Federal powerplant is desirable, we feel willing and able to build it.

Mr. SELDEN. Are there any further questions?

Colonel, it is my understanding that you will not be available again today or tomorrow, but that you will be available Wednesday in the event subcommittee members have additional questions that they would like to propound.

Colonel HEWITT. That is correct, sir. But on the other han 1, I will have Mr. Friedkin here, who I am sure would be able to answer most of the questions which I would answer if I were here.

Mr. SELDEN. This afternoon at 2:30 we are going to hear from some of the witnesses from Texas.

The subcommittee stands in recess until 2:30 this afternoon.

(Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The Subcomittee on Inter-American Affairs reconvened at 2:30 p.m., in room 1310, House Office Building, Hon. Armistead I. Selden, Jr., chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.

Álso present were Hon. O. C. Fisher, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas, and Hon. Joe M. Kilgore, a Representative in Congress from the State of Texas.

Some are

Mr. SELDEN. The subcommittee will come to order, please. We have a number of witnesses from the State of Texas. from the district of Congressman Fisher, and some from the district of Congressman Kilgore.

I am going to ask Congressman Fisher, if he will, to introduce all of the witnesses from his district. The names of those who are here will be incorporated in the record. Then, if he has anyone who would like to make a statement, we will be pleased to hear from him.

STATEMENT OF HON. O. C. FISHER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. FISHER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After listening to the testimony this morning I think the committee can understand why there is such a tremendous amount of interest manifested by the people who live along the Rio Grande, who live under the gun, so to speak, with the hazards of floods always staring them in the face. We have from the immediate area of Del Rio, quite a large delegation who have come here because of their interest in this project.

I should like to introduce them. There are two or three of them who would like to make 2- or 3- minute statements. They will be very brief. They have undertaken to select two or three spokesmen to avoid repetition, and out of deference to the time of the committee. First I want to introduce, Mr. Chairman, Mayor Arthur Kennedy, who is the Mayor of the city of Del Rio, one of our fine citizens there. I will introduce them in the order listed here.

Mr. Lyle Almond, executive vice president of the Del Rio Bank & Trust Co.

Mr. James A. Slaughter, prominent businessman, and also representing the Chamber of Commerce.

Mr. W. H. (Bill) Kelley, president of the Del Rio National Bank. Mr. W. M. Stool, of Del Rio, who is in the real estate business and a very prominent merchant in Del Rio.

Mr. Aubrey Rowland, a prominent businessman of that city, and who represents the city on the toll bridge that connects Ciudad Acuna with Del Rio. The bridge is owned by the city.

Mr. H. M. Pettit, who will testify briefly in a moment, and I will explain then what his title is.

Phil Ricks, a member of the Amistad Dam committee of the Chamber of Commerce-I don't believe he has come in, but he is here today. W. E. (Bill) Cook, who will also testify briefly in a moment, who is a member of the Amistad Dam committee.

Jim Lindsey, our affable and popular county judge of Del Rio, who is also a member of that committee.

Mr. Jerrel Taylor, president of the Chamber of Commerce of Del Rio, one of the outstanding citizens of that area of Texas.

Mr. Bob Robertson, over here, another good spokesman for the people in that section. He is a prominent civic leader.

Another longtime personal friend of mine, Ben Woodson, with the daily newspaper there.

Alex Haynes, another businessman and prominent citizen of Del Rio.

Last but not least, and not from Del Rio but from San Angelo, who represents a wide area of southwest Texas and who is vitally interested in and has been identified with all the worthwhile soil and water conservation projects in that section for many years, Senator Dorsey Hardeman, of San Angelo.

Now, Mr. Chairman, as I say, two or three of these witnesses would like to make brief statements.

Mr. SELDEN. Mr. Fisher, we are delighted to have all of these gentlemen at the hearing today. We know of their deep interest in this project, as is evidenced by their long trip from Texas to Washington in order to be with us on this occasion.

Mr. FISHER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First, I suggest that Mr. Pettit, who is chairman of the Amistad Chamber of Commerce committee, directly interested in and responsible for the work of the Chamber of Commerce in the promotion of this project, and who has been working on it for as far back as when it was just a dream years ago.

Suppose you come up and make a statement expressing the views of the committee you represent.

Mr. SELDEN. We will be very pleased to hear from you, Mr. Pettit. STATEMENT OF H. M. PETTIT, CHAIRMAN, DIABLO DAM COMMITTEE OF THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OF DEL RIO, TEX.

Mr. PETTIT. Mr. Chairman, and members of the Committee on Foreign Affairs, my name, as Mr. Fisher told you, is Hawley M. Pettit. I am chairman of the Diablo Dam Committee of the Del Rio Chamber of Commerce, and I speak for this organization as well as the city of Del Rio, Tex., and for Val Verde County, in favor of H.R. 8080.

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In 1944 the United States and Mexico entered into a treaty designed to utilize and control the waters of the Rio Grande to the fullest sible advantage and benefit of both nations. More recently President Eisenhower and the Mexican President, Adolpho Lopez Mateos, have reaffirmed the interests of both countries in speeding up construction of Diablo Dam.

Many years of work and planning have gone into the preliminary phases of this project. This represents a great deal of time, money, and effort, both on the part of the Government and on the part of the people of the area who are most highly interested in seeing the Diablo or Amistad-Dam become a reality.

The need has been proven to be very great, both from the standpoint of flood control and the need for conservation of water and the generation of hydroelectric power. Only those who have been on the Rio Grande for many years can completely understand the full meaning of the need for the construction of this dam, for they have seen the Rio Grande during drought when it was a mere trickle of a stream and in many lower reaches of the river stood only in pools, and when whole cities and communities were in dire need of water. Then, too, they have seen this trickle, overnight, become a raging torrent destroying everything in its path, washing away bridges, homes, businesses, and destroying crops and livestock, and worst of all, snuffing out the lives of human beings.

Legislation deemed necessary for the operation of Diablo Dam has been passed by the State legislature. It has been approved by the State Board of Water Engineers and signed and recommended by Governor Price Daniel.1

The feasibility report which has been given by Commissioner Hewitt of the International Boundary and Water Commission clearly shows the need and justifies completely the cost of the construction of Diablo Dam. The Del Rio delegation is thoroughly in accord with the facts presented in the feasibility report and respectfully requests that the committee find in favor of this project which means so much to all the people who live along the valley of the Rio Grande. Respectfully submitted, H. M. Pettit.

Mr. SELDEN. Thank you very much.

Are there any questions that any members would like to ask? Mr. BURLESON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to compliment Mr. Pettit and all of those with him, on his farsightedness and your enterprise in bringing this matter to fruition as you are doing, in an orderly sort of way. This offers me an opportunity to say also, Mr. Chairman-and I know that my other colleagues on the committee will join me in this-that I think all of you are fortunate in having men like O. C. Fisher and Joe Kilgore, Senator Hardeman, and others in official positions, who are so enthusiastic and so ably representing you, in this and other official capacities.

Mr. PETTIT. Thank you very much. We feel very grateful to have them as our representatives here.

Mr. SELDEN. Thank you very much.

Mr. FISHER. Mr. Chairman, among the others here from Del Rio is Mr. W. E. (Bill) Cook, a certified public accountant. He is a director of the South Texas Chamber of Commerce which covers the entire area that is interested, on the American side, in this project.

Bill has a brief statement he would like to make expressing the views of the Chamber of Commerce of South Texas.

STATEMENT OF W. E. COOK, DEL RIO, TEX., DIRECTOR, SOUTH TEXAS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, INC., SAN ANTONIO, TEX.

Mr. Cook. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, my name, as Congressman Fisher has told you, is W. E. Cook, and I am a CPA from Texas, where

1 See app. I, p. 257.