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he United States, and perform your du- tion of 1837, until otherwise ordered, be ties as members of this Constitutional Con- adopted for the government of this convention with fidelity, and so you affirm.” vention, and that'two hundred copies of COMMUN COMMUNICATION FROM THE SECRETARY

the same be printed for the use of the members.

Mr. HARRY WHITE.' So far as appliThe President then laid before the Con- cable. vention a communication from the Secre

Mr. DALLAS. I move to amend, by tary of the Commonwealth, which was adding the following: “But so much of read. [See Journal.]

said rules as refer to the appointment of RULES FOR THE CONVENTION. standing committees shall not be included Mr. HOPKINS offered the following reso

as part of the rules of this Convention."

Mr. HOPKINS. lution, which was twice read:.

I should like to know

what it is proposed to strike out. I have Resolved, That the rules of the House of Representatives of this Commonwealth, the Convention of 1837.

never seen the rules, that I remember, of so far as applicable, be adopted for the

Mr. DALLAS. I see that a member in government of this Convention. Mr. DARLINGTON moved to amend, by sent to the Clerk's desk and read for infor

front of me has a copy. I ask that it be striking out all after the word “Resolved,'

mation. and inserting in lieu thereof the follow

Mr. MACVEAGH. They are not long, ing:

“That the Rules of the Convention of and I ask that they be all read. 1837, until otherwise ordered, be adopted

The Clerk read that part of the rules of for the government of this

the Convention of 1837, which it was proMr. MANN. I second that moţion.

posed to strike out. Mr. HOPKINS accepted the amendment.

Mr. DALLAS. I propose to amend, by Mr. DARLINGTON.

Mr. President: I striking out all that portion which prowish to say merely that those rules were vides for the appointment and duties of carefully considered and adopted by a the several standing committees which committee of the Convention, and then by can have no status here. the whole body, and answered for the Mr. CLARK. Mr. President: The rules government of that Convention. They which have been read, if I am not misare much more appropriate, I presume, taken, were rules which were reported by for the government of this Convention a committee, but I am not certain whether than the rules of the House of Representa- they were made the rules of the Conventives. They are easily accessible in the tion of 1837. They were subsequently disfirst volume of the Debates of that Con- cussed, and, I think, modified. vention.

Mr. WHITE, (Indiana.) Mr. President: Mr. KAINE. I would inquire of the gen- I believe but one amendment to this resotleman from Chester (Mr. Darlington) lution is before the Convention. I offer where those rules are to be found?

the following as an amendment to the Mr. DARLINGTON. In the first volume amendment, to come in at the close. of the Debates and in the Journal.

The amendment was sent to the Clerk's Mr. MANN. On page 28. I move to desk. amend, by requesting the Clerk to have Mr. HOPKINS. I suppose the pending printed 200 copies of these rules, for the question is on the amendment offered by use of the members of the Convention. the gentleman on my left, (Mr. Dallas,)

Mr. JNO. PRICE WETHERILL. I hope which is an amendment to the resolution not. We may not use those rules but a as modified by myself. The gentleman day.

from Indiana (Mr. White) proposes to Mr. MANN. The reason why I desire amend that amendment. them printed is that members can see Mr. CUYLER. Mr. President: Would it what they are—whether they will have not be better for us to adopt the rules of them continued. They are the rules order of the Senate of Pennsylvania, leavadopted by the Convention of 1837.

ing the rules for future consideration?. Is Mr. HOPKINS. I accept that, also, as a it not premature at this time to discuss the modification of my resolution.

organization of committees? All we want The resolution, as modified, was then now is the laws of parliamentary practiec. read, as follows:

Mr. MACVEAGH. Mr. President: I conRésolved, That the rules of the Conven- cur most cordially in that view, with the

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exception that I do not see the necessity little interest in its proper disposition. I for the adoption of any rules. The com- , do not represent that district in any part, mon law of parliamentary bodies, as ad- but represent the State at large. I hapministered by the Chair, is sufficient until pen, however, to reside there, and I am we have a committee to present rules. I extremely anxious that whatever is done submit that it is entirely unnecessary to by this Convention in that matter shall be adopt the rules of the House or Senate, or done with due deliberation. Neither of of the old Convention, but simply to rely these gentlemen are personal intimate upon the common law of deliberative as- friends of mine. The result is of no consemblies, as administered by the Chair, sequence to me, but it is of consequence until a committee can consider the matter to every member of this Convention, and and present a carefully digested report; it is of consequence to the people of that and I trust, therefore, that the motion as district that this question should be very amended will be yoted down, and that we carefully considered before it is decided. will proceed with the organization.

The motion to refer this to a committee of The amendment to the amendment (of- five, if carried, will result probably in a fered by Mr. White (Indiana) was then divided committee as to its political comread, as follows:

plexion. "And the Chair shall appoint a commit.

The PRESIDENT remarked that refertee of seven to report to the Convention

ence to the political predilections of memrules for the government of its proceed- bers was not in order. ings.”

Mr. DALLAS. If I am in error I ask Mr. Boyd moved that the whole subject pardon. The law under which we are be laid on the table for the present.

organized provides that in the case of a The motion was agreed to.

vacancy in a district, the vacancy shall be

filled by the delegates at large who were Mr. HARRY WHITE offered the follow- voted for the person whose resignation or

voted for by the same class of voters who ing resolution, which was read :

death has made a vacancy. Resolved, That D. L. Imbrie, Esq., be

It is clear that one or the other of the and is hereby declared to be the Chief gentlemen named has been elected. I do Clerk of this Convention. The PRESIDENT. The Convention not there is no doubt about the class of voters

not suppose there is a vacancy. I think having yet come to any order upon the who voted forthese gentlemen, and I move subject of officers, the Chair is in doubt as

to amend the resolution so that the questo whether it is in order to offer such a

tion be referred to the fourteen delegaten resolution at this time, and will submit at large who were chosen to this Conthat question to the consideration of the. vention by the minority party of the Convention.

State. The decision of the Chair was sustained.

Mr. SIMPSON. It is a matter in which

I have no personal interest, except as a Mr. SIMPSON. Mr. President:I rise to a matter of right. I accept the amendment. question of privilege. The Convention is I am requested by some members to say aware of the fact that the Governor, in his that the two gentlemen between whom proclamation, has declared the election of the seat is in controversy are of the same but two persons from the Third Senatorial political party as the delegates to whom it district of Philadelphia, and has declared is proposed to refer this question. his inability to say which of two other Mr. MAOVEAGH. - Mr. President: If in persons was elected. I offer the following order, I would state, in reference to this resolution.

subject, that I am entirely unable to unThe resolution was read, as follows: derstand how the eighth section is to be

Resolved, That a committee of five be applied. appointed to inquire into and report to The PRESIDENT. The resolution, as this Convention whether R. E. Shapley or modified, has not been read. Benjamin L. Temple is entitled to a seat The resolution, as modified, was read, in the Convention from the Third Senato- as follows: rial district.

Resolved, that the delegates at large last Mr. DALLAS. Mr. President: I happen named in the Governor's proclamation be to reside in the same district in which this appointed to inquire into and report to question' arises, and therefore have some Convention, whether R. E. Shapley


or Benjamin L. Temple is entitled to the The resolution as modified was then seat in the Convention from the Third adopted. Senatorial district.

ADJOURNMENT TO PHILADELPHIA. Mr. MACVEAGH. Mr. President: It oc- Mr. LITTLETON. Mr. President: I decurred to me to ask whether the gentle- sire, at this time, to present to the Conman from Philadelphia had any definite vention resolutions unanimously adopted understanding how we were to apply the by the councils of Philadelphia, asking eighth section of the act to this case. I this Convention to hold its sessions in that cannot understand how I am to know who city. I present them to the Convention voted for Mr. Temple or for Mr. Shapley, for its action. and especially how I am to know that the

The resolutions were read as follows: same people voted for Mr. Dallas that voted

CLERK'S OFFICE, SELECT COUNCIL, either for Mr. Temple or Mr. Shapley. I

Philadelphia, Nov. 5, 1872.

} know nothing of who voted for any of them. Possibly the President does. I am

To President of Constitutional Convention sure I am not in a condition to vote upon

of Pennsylvania : it, unless I accept the statement of some- SIR :This is to certify that the followbody else. We have been sworn to dis- ing is a true and correct copy of the original charge these duties. I have no desire to resolutions approved by his Honor, the make captious opposition, or to interfere Mayor, the twenty-sixth day of October, in any way in this matter; but here is a A. D. 1872, entitled “Resolution in refersection that says, that “those members at ence to the Constitutional Convention." large of the Convention who shall have

Resolved by the Select and Common Counbeen voted for by the same, or by a major- cils of the city of Philadelphia, That the ity of the voters who shall have voted for Convention to assemble on the second such district or city member, shall fill such Tuesday of November next to revise the vacancy." While it is the merest surmise, Constitution of this Commonwealth, be if it is even a surmise, as to who voted for and is hereby respectfully and cordially these men, we are asked upon our oaths invited to hold its sessions in this city, to assume the fact; and as the gentleman and a hearty welcome is hereby tendered from Philadelphia (Mr. Dallas) seems to to its members and officers. have information, I thought perhaps he

Resolved, That upon fifteen days' notice would give it. I do not know as anybody of the intention of said Convention to else has the same trouble that I have; but meet and remain in Philadelphia a suitaunless somebody will show that Mr. Tem- ble hall, properly furnished and arranged, ple and the other gentlemen were voted will be provided for the use of the Confor by the same people, or a majority of the same people who voted for the dele- vention, at the expense of this city.

Resolved, That a copy of the foregoing gates that were elected upon the ticket with Mr. Dallas, I do not see why this resolutions be delivered to the President

of the Convention immediately upon its inatter should be referred to them.

organization. Mr. DALLAS. Mr. President: I have no Attest: desire to waste the time of the Convention

JOSEPH H. PAIST, unnecessarily over a matter of this kind,

Assistant Clerk Select Council. but. I cannot hesitate to reply to the gen

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. Mr. President: I tleman's call for information. I did not desire, in connection with this communiprovision of the eighth section of the act cation, if it be in order, to offer the follow

ing resolution : of Assembly, because I distinctly stated my belief to be that we have no vacancy

Resolved, That the invitation of Philain that district. I do not suppose there is delphia to this Convention to hold its a vacancy. But I suppose the spirit of permanent sessions in that city, be acthat section was this, that in case any seat cepted, and that its councils be forthwith that should be filled is vacant-that is, if notified hereof, and that the “permanent any district entitled to three, has but two sessions of the Convention will be held in delegates--then in that case the same vo

such hall in that city as its authorities may ters who, under the spirit of the law, would provide for the purpose. be entitled to fill that vacancy, are en

Mr. KAINE. I move that this Conventitled to have it filled by the delegates at tion do now adjourn, to meet to-morrow arge whom they voted for.

morning at ten o'clock, and that that be




the standing hour of meeting until other

NA YS. wise ordered.

Messrs. Ainey, Andrews, Bartholomew, The PRESIDENT. That motion will have Black, (York,) Bailey, (Huntingdon,) to be divided. The motion to adjourn is Baker, Bannan, Bardsley, Beebe, Biddle, a simple motion, and nothing can be at- Bowman, Boyd, Brodhead, Broomal', tached to it.

Brown, Barclay, Campbell, Corbett, Carey, Mr. KAINE. I move, then, that when Carter, Cassidy, Church, Clark, Collins, the Convention adjourns, it adjourns to Corson, Curry, Cuyler, Davis, Dimmick, meet to-morrow morning at ten o'clock.

Dodd, Dallas, Dunning, Ellis, Edwards, The motion of Mr. Kaine was not agreed Ewing, Fell, Finney, Gowen, Gilpin,

Guthrie, Hanna, Harvey, Hay, Hemp. Mr. COCHRAN. I hope that resolution hill, Heverin, Horton, Hunsicker, Knight, will not be pressed to an immediate vote, Lilly, Lear, Littleton, Long, M’Camant, but that time will be taken to consider it M'Connell, M'Murray, Newlin, Palmer, before action is taken upon it. I think this H. W., Palmer, G. W., Parsons, Patton, body is not prepared to decide that ques- Pughe, Reynolds, S. H., Read, (Philadeltion now, and without discussing it, or in- phia,) Rhone, Ross, Smith,'(Allegheny,) dicating my own personal views upon the Sharpe, Simpson, Stanton, Stewart, Tursubject. I move that the further consider- rell, Woodward, Wetherill, (Philadelation of the resolution be postponed for the phia,) Wetherill, (Schuylkill,) Worrell present.

and Meredith, President.-77. On the question of agreeing to the mo

So the question was determined in the tion of Mr. Cochran, the yeas and nays

negative. were called.

The question then recurred on agreeing Mr. KAINE. I understand the questioni

to the resolution of Mr. Bartholomew. is upon the motion to postpone the resclution for the present, offered by the gen- vention do now adjourn.

Mr. HOPKINS. I move that this Contleman on my left.

The motion was not agreed to: The PRESIDENT. Discussion is not in

Mr. WHITE, (Indiana.) . I offer the folorder. Nothing is in order but to take the

lowing resolution upon this subject. vote.

The PRESIDENT. A resolution is already Mr. WHITE, (Indiana.) I move amend, by making the motion to postpone before, the House. The resolution will indefinite, for the purpose of bringing

now be again read. the matter before the House for discussion.

The resolution of Mr. Bartholomew was The PRESIDENT. Nothing is in order read by the Clerk. but to take the vote.

Mr. WOODWARD. I would inquire of On the question,

the mover of this resolution what he means Will the Convention agree to the motion by “permanent sessions” of this Convenof Mr. Cochran?

tion? When are these 66 permanent ses

What does he The yeas and nays were required by Mr. sions” to commence ? D. N. White and Mr. Stanton, and were as

mean by that expression? Does he mean

that we are to take our hats and coats now follows, viz:

and march to Philadelphia, or does he YEAS.

mean that we are to remove there at some Messrs. Armstrong, Alricks, Achenbach, future time? The only defining words are Baer, Baily, (Perry,) Black, (Greene,) ó permanent sessions.”' This session is Curtin, Cochran, Craig, Cronmiller, Dar- just as permanent as any we are to have. lington, DeFrance, Elliott, Freeze, Fulton, I hope the gentleman will inform us what Funck, Hall, Hazzard, Hopkins, Howard, he means by that resolution. Kaine, Lamberton, Lawrence, Landis, I wish to say that at the proper time I M'Allister, M'Clean, M'Culloch, Mac- shall be decidedly in favor of adjourning Veagh, Mann, Mantor, Metzger, Minor, this Convention to meet in Philadelphia. Mott, Niles, Purman, Patterson, (Alle- But I shall not be in favor of such an adgheny,). Patterson, (Lancaster,) Porter, journment until the Convention shall have Purviance, (Allegheny,) Purviance, (But- appointed one or several committees for ler,) Reynolds, James L., Reed, (Mifflin,) the purpose of preparing amendments for Rooke, Runk, Russell, Smith, (Berks,) our future action. Those committees will Smith, (Lancaster,) Struthers, VanReed, need considerable time in preparing the Walker, White, (Indiana,) White, David _amendments they will probably submit. N., Wherry and White, J. W.F.-54. Meanwhile, the Convention will have no



thing to do.

If the Convention should take that course, which it seems likely to

Messrs. Armstrong, Ainey, Andrews, do, I should move that, after appointing Addicks, Achenbach, Bartholomew, Baione or more committees to refer to the ley, (Huntingdon,) Baker, Bannan, Bardsquestions of amendment to the Constitu- ley, Beebe, Biddle, Boyd, Brodhead, Brown, tion, this body should adjourn to meet Broomall, Barclay, Curtin, Campbell, Corafter the holidays in the city of Philadel- bett, Carey, Carter, Cassidy, Clark, Collins, phia, in such hall as the Councils might Corson, Craig, Curry, Cuyler, Davis, Dalprovide for it. That, sir, would be a defi- las, Darlington, Dunning; Ellis, Edwards, nite time for meeting in Philadelphia, for Ewing, Fell, Gowen, Gilpin, Guthrie, when the next session is held after adjourn. Hanna, Harvey, Hay, Hemphill, Heverin, ment it would be held there. But to adopt Horton, Hunsicker, Knight, Lilly, Lear; this resolution in its present praseology is Littleton, Long, M'Camant, Newlin, Purto resolve what I confess, for one, I cannot man, Palmer, H. W., Palmer, G. W., Parcomprehend. If the gentleman means

sons, Patton, Pughe, Reynolds, S. H., that we are now, instanter, to transfer the Read, (Philadelphia,) Rhone, Ross, Runk, sessions of this body to Philadelphia, I Smith, (Allegheny,) Simpson, Stanton, am opposed to the resolution. But, if it

Struthers, Turrell, Wetherill, (Philadelbe that after our work is apportioned to

phia,) Wetherill, (Schuylkill,) Worrell appropriate committees this body is to ad- and Meredith, President-73. journ to Philadelphia, I shall support the resolution with great pleasure.

So the question was determined in the

negative. Mr. ALRICKS. I move to strike out all after the word “resolved," and insert the

The question recurred on agreeing to the following: “That when this Convention resolution of Mr. Bartholomew. adjourn, it adjourn to meet in this place Mr. MACVEAGH. I move to amend, by to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock."

striking out all after the word “resolved,', Mr. CUYLER. I would inquire if that and inserting the following: amendment is in order-if it is germain to

“That the communication be received, the original resolution. The one provides, and that it be taken into consideration for the permanent sittings of the Conven- next Tuesday, the 19th instant, upon the tion in Philadelphia, and the other for a assembling of the Convention.' temporary adjournment.

I desire simply to say in reference to, The PRESIDENT. If the gentleman de- and in elucidation of what Judge Woodsires it, the Chair will submit the question ward stated partially, that whatever be to the House,

the will of the Convention it will undoubtOn the question, will the Convention edly be carried out, and that in as brief a

time as possible. Just now it is utterly agree to the amendment of Mr. Alricks?

impossible, as it seems to me, and I know The yeas and nays were required by Mr. many other members think.the same way, Hopkins and Mr. Alricks, and were as fol- to decide this matter without some further lows, viz:

organization of the Convention, and withYEAS.

out some further distribution of its labors,

and until we have an outline of what we Messrs. Alricks, Baer, Black, (York,) are to do, and possibly until we may adBaily, (Perry,) Black, (Greene,) Bowman, journ a short time. Certainly next week Church, Cochran, Cronmiller, Dimmick, all that will be ascertained. The amendDodd, De France, Elliott, Finney, Freeze, ment fixes a definite time, and within a Fulton, Funck, Hall, Hazzard, Hopkins, very brief time for the full consideration Howard, Kaine, Lamberton, Lawrence, of the matter, when the Convention will Landis, M'Allister, M'Clean, M'Connell, be in possession of very much fuller inM'Culloch, M'Murray, MacVeagh, Mann, formation of the probable duration of its Mantor, Metzger, Minor, Mott, Niles, Pat- sessions, and of the probability of its early terson, (Allegheny,) Patterson, (Lancas- adjournment than it can be now. ter,) Porter, Purviance, (Allegheny,) Pur- to me that this resolution decides the matviance, (Butler,) Reynolds, James L., ter by bsnap” judgment, as it were, for, Reed, (Miffling) Rooke, Russell, Sharpe, until we know what course the ConvenSmith, (Berks,) Smith, (Lancaster,) Stew- tion will take in its business, we are not art; Walker, White, (Indiana,) White, in a condition to decide upon sitting anyDavid N., Woodward, Wherry and White, where. Therefore what is the immediate J. W.F.-56.

necessity for fixing a place for the perma

It seems

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