chased power from modern plants of others, has been to create a system in which they have many small generating plants operated merely for stand-by or emergency service or to supply steam-heating service. Question. Until actually abandoned that would be the case? Answer. That would be normally to be expected. As of December 31, 1928, the company listed a total of 52 generating plants, ranging in size from 100 kilovolt amperes to 60,300 kilovolt amperes each. Question. That is the big Des Moines plant? Answer. Yes, sir. A total of 304,400 kilovolt amperes. Two years later, as of December 31, 1930, the company reported a total of 322,440 kilovolt amperes of owned capacity. Question. You show this table on page 41? Answer. Yes, sir; in which the distribution by States is shown. Mr. BUCKINGHAM. Do you want to state the ownership of the super power? Mr. CHANTLAND. That is back where you were. Answer. In the State of Illinois a considerable amount of power or a considerable amount of energy is purchased from the Super Power Co., of Illinois, which, as previously stated, is divided in ownership between the Illinois Power & Light Co. and other power interests. The actual division of ownership of controllng stock in the Super Power Co. of Illinois is as follows: Twenty-five percent is owned by Illinois Power & Light Corporation, 30 percent is owned by the Commonwealth Edison Co., 25 percent by the Public Service Co. of northern Illinois Question. These two latter companies are Insull companies? Answer. Yes, sir. And 20 percent by the Central Illinois Public Service Co. Question. Also an Insull company? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Go ahead. Examiner BENNETT. Gentlemen, I think it is about time to take a recess for lunch. We will recess until 2 o'clock. At 12:30 o'clock p.m. a recess was taken until 2 o'clock p.m. AFTER RECESS The hearing was resumed at 2 p.m., pursuant to the taking of recess. J. W. ADAMS resumed the stand and testified further as follows: Question. We have discovered that in Illinois they buy more than they produce. What is the situation in Iowa? Answer. In Iowa the purchased power is not a factor to any extent, as the company is a supplier rather than purchaser of energy. Question. What about the situation as to stand-by capacity in the various States? Answer. Of the total generating capacity, the plants reported about 76.3 percent classed as operating, 12.4 as stand-by, and 11.3 as emergency capacity. That covers the entire system. Question. What is classed as emergency? Answer. Emergency stand-by is capacity which normally does not operate. The plants may be absolutely cold and usually are, but maintained in such condition that in case of breakdown of other capacity they could be brought into production. Question. That is, serious breakdown? Answer. A serious breakdown. Question. Rather than a stand-by to take care of short breakdowns? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. Is there any distinction in the system between what has been replaced in Illinois and in the other States? Answer. In Iowa, Missouri, and Kansas the displacement of older plants by newer and more efficient sources of energy, either owned or purchased, has not occurred to anything like the same extent as in Illinois. Question. You next discuss here the matter of energy generated, purchased, and sold by States. My recollection is in his report on interstate commerce Mr. Carter will cover that very fully, so I do not believe we will stop for that and repeat it. On page 47 you have a table which shows what? Answer. It shows the percentage analysis of kilowatt-hour sales and revenues of subsidiaries of the North American Light & Power Co. by States and by classes of customers for the years 1928 and 1929, and in connection therewith it shows the average revenue per kilowatt-hour. Question. Does it not also show quantities as well as percentages? Answer. On page 47. Forty-six shows quantities. Question. That is table 9 you are referring to? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. I wanted to ask you what table no. 7 on page 43 shows. Answer. Table no. 7 on page 43 shows the total energy produced, purchased, sold, used, and lost and unaccounted for by the subsidiaries of the North American Power & Light Co. by States for the years 1928 and 1929. Question. Now, for 1929 what was the total input into the system? Answer. 1,003,877,654 kilowatt-hours. Question. Of which how much was generated? Answer. 557,976,073 kilowatt-hours. Question. And the balance was purchased, was it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. How much was sold to customers? Answer. 751,122,137 kilowatt-hours. Question. The balance was used by its railways and other developments and lost; is that right? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The total loss being what? Answer. The total of lost and unaccounted for amounted to 178,$19.986 kilowatt-hours, representing 17.8 percent of the total supply. Question. Leaving what percent sold and used? Answer. 82.2 percent. Question. We will go back to the table you were talking about a minute ago. This shows the sales and revenues, does it not? That is, table 8? Answer. Yes, table 8 shows the sales and revenues. Question. Now, then, table no. 9 shows the percentages drawn from table 8? Answer. That is correct. Question. Let us get few figures on table 8, then pass over it. Take 1929. Answer. All right. Question. The total sales for domestic service? Answer. Amounted to 103,109,687 kilowatt-hours sold for $8,065,559.86. Question. All right. Passing over to table no. 9, what percentage of the kilowatt-hours was this? Answer. It represented 13.73 percent. Question. Bringing in how much of the revenue? Answer. Producing 32.71 percent of the total revenue. Question. An average of how much per kilowatt-hour? Answer. 7.82 cents. Question. Now, for power; what percentage of the kilowatt-hours was used? Answer. Power consumers Question. Percentage I am talking about. Answer. Took 40.13 percent of the kilowatt-hours, and paid 25.64 percent of the total revenues. Question. At what rate per kilowatt-hour? Answer. This power was taken at an average revenue of 2.1 cents per kilowatt-hour. Question. It seems you have down here a rather smaller factor called high tension sales. What is that-transfers to other companies? Answer. No. My recollection now is rather hazy, but that. I think, is sales at high tension possibly to other public utilities. Question. It seems only to occur in Illinois. Answer. I think that is what it is. It may be to other public utilities or large industries that take power at high voltage. Question. The rate received per kilowatt-hour for that was what? Answer. 1.18 cents per kilowatt-hour. Question. The price received per kilowatt-hour for the rural was what? Answer. Rural customers paid 8.59 cents per kilowatt-hour. Question. The total amount absorbed of the kilowattage was what percent? Answer. This average revenue was paid for only 0.44 of 1 percent of the total kilowatt-hours sold. Question. Which produced 1.16 of the revenue? Answer. That is right. Question. Now, then, the bottom line shows under revenue kilowatt-hour what they received for all the kilowattage sold to all classes of customers by given estates, and the average value, does it? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. What was this average received in Illinois in 1929 for all of the sales? Answer. The average revenue was 3.52 cents per kilowatt-hour. Question. And the price received for domestic in Illinois for that same year? Answer. 8.58 cents. Question. And for commercial? Answer. 6.05 cents. Question. And for power? Answer. 2.04. Question. Iowa, the same information. Answer. The average revenue for all energy sold was 2.76 cents. Question. All right. Domestic! Answer. The average revenue from domestic sales in Iowa was 5.96 cents. Question. Commercial? Answer. For commercial 5.38 cents. Question. Power? Answer. 3.38 cents. Question. Missouri? Answer. For Missouri the average revenue for all sales was 4.82 cents per kilowatt-hour. Question. Domestic? Answer. The sales of domestic service was 9.43 cents. Answer. Rural, 11.29 cents per kilowatt-hour. Answer. The average revenue for all energy sold was 2.83 cents. For domestic service it was 7.07 cents; for heating and cooking, 3.32 rents; for commercial service 5.86 cents; for power consumers, 1.98 cents. Question. Now, then, you have given me the combined average. The domestic average for all was 7.82 cents. Do you recall whether the United States average on domestic as reported by the N.E.L.A. was 5.90 or 6.10 for 1929? Answer. I do not recall what it was for 1929. It was in the neighborhood of 6.0 cents, but I do not recall what it was. Mr. CHANTLAND. For the record I will say that Moody's Manual of Public Utilities for 1930 at page 21, under "Electric Light and Power Industry" for the years 1922 to 1929 shows that the average revenue per kilowatt-hours sold in domestic service for 1929 is 6.18 cents. Question. On page 51 you have a table showing the decrease in average revenue per kilowatt-hour of the different classes, have you not? the Answer. Yes, sir; as between the years 1928 and 1929. Question. Yes. Only those 2 years. Have you any data showing the relative cost in the 2 years to compare with the decrease in the price received? Answer. Not Question. For the various classes? · Answer. Not for the total operations of the system. Question. We come now to section 3, chapter 2 of your report, the over-all gas statistics for the system. Answer. Yes, sir. Question. The number of communities served? Answer. The total number of communities served was 115. Question. Population served? Answer. 909,574.. Question. Representing how many customers? Answer. 163,111. Question. The 115 communities that are served at retail, to this is to be added the 22 communities in Kansas served wholesale? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. And one in Illinois? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. This explains the large consumption of gas per customer that we have already called attention to in your testimony, does it not? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In Kansas. Do you know anything about a lease of a pipe line from the Texas Panhandle? Answer. There is in contemplation the use under lease by the Kansas Pipe Line & Gas Co. of a portion of the capacity of its line from the Texas Panhandle to a point near Mullinville, Kans. Such use would give the subsidiaries of the North American Light & Power Co. access to their gas reserves in the Texas Panhandle without building separate transmission lines. Question. Mr. Adams, Mr. Buckingham suggests on this map, exhibit 4993, that Mullinville is the place called Haviland or is nearby. Answer. No. Near Haviland. Question. It is this piece of line from there on down to the Panhandle field you are speaking of [indicating on map]? Answer. Yes, sir. Question. In 1931 was there an extension of the pipe line of the Northern Natural Gas Co. in Iowa? Answer. Yes, sir; one such extension from a point south of Fort Dodge to Des Moines now supplies the Iowa subsidiaries of the North American Light & Power Co. with natural gas for boiler fuel in the old plant of the Des Moines Electric Light Co. and for mixing with manufactured gas for the retail trade in and about Des Moines. Question. How far north has that line been extended? Answer. I am informed today that it has been extended up the State of Minnesota, as far as Rochester. Question. But not to the Twin Cities? Answer. So I understand. Question. That is a distance of about 90 miles? Answer. Yes, sir; something like that. into Question. What about the situation in Missouri and Illinois in connection with the natural-gas development? Answer. Well, there has been a development of substitution of natural gas for manufactured gas in both Missouri and Illinois. Such substitution is made wherever the construction of natural-gas pipe lines has made natural gas available. The gas for such mixing |