The CHAIRMAN. Your coal comes principally from West Virginia? Mr. DAUGHTON. South West Virgina and West Virginia. Some of those trains come in there with 150 cars. They can almost coast down from the mountains to the seaboard. It is one-way traffic; unfortunately, they all go back empty.

The CHAIRMAN. How much coal goes to New England, about 20,000,000 tons?

Mr. DAUGHTON. I do not know, I would be guessing, but New England would be in a bad shape if we stopped. I know that during the war they had a tie-up in Norfolk & Western yards at Roanoke, and I believe the Virginian yards at Princeton, Va., and that was routed out through western Maryland and into the New England States to keep them going.

Our harbor at that time was not safe offshore, not as safe as indicated in the papers. We had tugboats sunk out there towing coal barges. These "brave" boys came in there and actually killed men on tugboats towing coal barges north. We had to ship some of it up in that way. We did that from necessity.

We are going to gain a lot of property over there by this silt being pumped in back of Craney Island. This thought was suggested to me by a gentleman who happened to be in my office when I left there, that some water-front property is going to be damaged by this. I do not know what the interest of you gentlemen is in protecting the property which might be damaged by this action, by the building of Craney Island, which will take away from what is now waterfront property and remove it from being water-front property. Just what that damage will be, I do not know, whether that requires separate legislation or whether you anticipate trouble of that kind. I see this gentleman is an engineer also. He probably anticipated what I was going to say.

I thank you very much, and I hope and pray that the recommendation of you gentlemen will be favorable to us.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Daughton, we also have a water pollution bill, you know, under consideration.

What is the source of your water supply there?

Mr. DAUGHTON. The Norfolk wtear supply comes from Lake Kilby. The CHAIRMAN. Where is that?

Mr. DAUGHTON. Lake Kilby is probably 30 miles from Norfolk. You perhaps know where Suffolk is, on the Norfolk & Western, between Portsmouth and Richmond and Petersburg. It is back in that area about 30 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. How about your sewage disposal?

Mr. DAUGHTON. The sewage disposal is such that we practically have had none. I was in the State senate before I came up here, and we had the devil of a good time every session; it was just "Poor Dick" and "Poor Devil." Norfolk wanted it and Portsmouth did not, and Portsmouth did and Norfolk did not. Then the little town of South Norfolk would come in there. And Newport News was always in there. And we never did agree on anything. And the only way the thing will be properly taken care of will be to have somebody ram it down our throats and that we be made to like it.

The naval operating base, the naval hospital, all at Portsmouth, which is one of the biggest and the oldest in the United States, all

of those things contribute to our pollution. And, in addition, we have in the inner reaches of Hampton Roads a public health service hospital. We practically have had to do away with our oyster beds in the inner harbor because of pollution. I understand it makes the oyster fat but it does not help the other qualities at all. I think that is being taken care of rapidly.

There was some measure passed at the last session of the general assembly which only recently adjourned, requiring any towns or districts which did not enter into the cleaning up of the harbor, that we could be able to force them to take action.

Mr. DONDERO. Is Portsmouth opposite or is that Gloucester?

Mr. DAUGHTON. That is Gloucester. Portsmouth is across the ferry. And outside is located what is generally known as the Norfolk Navy Yard and the old naval hospital.

Mr. DONDERO. We were there 2 or 3 weeks ago with a committee, 33 from the House, in that navy yard.

Mr. DAUGHTON. It is a grand yard with a grand record and we are rather proud of it.

The CHAIRMAN. I remember a good many years ago you contemplated getting your water supply from Lake Drummond.

Mr. DAUGHTON. Our needs, I think, were originally about 13,000,000 gallons a day. Virginia Beach came on and we have down there Fort Story and there were one or two military camps down there that used millions and millions of gallons. The size of the naval operating base was increased. Any number of naval activities and Army activities came in there, plus the factor that Norfolk increased in size from 140,000 to 250,000, and the result was that we were millions and millions of gallons short; I mean people living on second floors were lucky if they got just enough water to shave with. We ran a pipe line up to Kilby, which we had been working on, put a big pumping station up there, and a purification plant, and then we stepped over and we went down into the Carolinas and tapped into some of those waters down there. So we are really well fixed now. In addition to that, I may say right at our own back door we have some small, fresh-water lakes that were used when Norfolk was a village. And, by the way, for the interest of you gentlemen, they are only about a city block from salt water. You can fresh-water fish in those lakes and go a city block and salt-water fish in the bay. I do not know elsewhere where that condition exists.

So we are well taken care of with water if we can get rid of the pollution, and also have some place to dump our mud.

The CHAIRMAN. Some 15, 18 years ago, we put in a lock down there. Mr. DAUGHTON. That is near Great Bridge; that is on account of

the ducks.

The CHAIRMAN. To save the ducks.

Mr. DAUGHTON. To keep the salt water out of there. Thousands of duck hunters come in there from the North, I think more from the North than from down in my section. The wild celery is in there. And the salt water had a tendency to kill that. They will entertain a million or so ducks down there every year. I do not know how many of them ever get back home.

The CHAIRMAN. I remember Mr. Simmons of North Carolina was very much interested in it.

Mr. DAUGHTON. He was a duck hunter.

Mr. DOYLE. Is the gentleman familiar with the coal on the west coast at all?

Mr. DAUGHTON. Am I familiar with it? No, sir; I am not.

Mr. DOYLE. I would like to direct your attention to the fact that my own home port of Long Beach is now handling a very large portion of the coal shipped to the west coast from Utah coal fields, and those great ships loading that coal come right up to our municipal docks, load, and carry it to Europe and other places.

Mr. DAUGHTON. We still have, sir, much larger, by far the largest, coal port in the world.

Mr. DOYLE. I thought you would be glad to know that.

Mr. DAUGHTON. I am very glad to hear about it.

Mr. DOYLE. That has developed within the last 2 or 3 years.
Mr. DAUGHTON. That is fine.

Mr. DOYLE. That has been since the war.

Mr. DAUGHTON. That is fine. The Virginian and the C. & O., too, run a trainload of coal in there, and it is amazing to see a trainload of coal go into one ship. That is some ten or fifteen thousand tons of coal. They will run those up on the rack, which upsets the car, and lets the coal go down. And ships are self-trimming. There is just a cloud of black dust all of the time.

The CHAIRMAN. The way we handle sulfur in my own country. Mr. DAUGHTON. The only place I see that in my country is around the fertilizer plant.

Where is Long Beach?

Mr. DOYLE. Long Beach, Los Angeles County.
The CHAIRMAN. That is out in California.

Mr. DAUGHTON. I would like to check on that.

Mr. DOYLE. You will find that port is so proximate to the coalusing areas in Europe and Asia, relatively, that they are shipping from there, that our shipping facilities are rated the best on the coast, and, therefore, heavy shipments from Utah going into California go to the Long Beach ports instead of any other ports.

Mr. DAUGHTON. That is a godsend to all of us. How big are the coal fields there in Utah?

Mr. DOYLE. I do not know that.

Mr. DAUGHTON. I am ignorant about it. I did not know they had coal fields there. I hope they do not get coal strikes.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe that is all. Thank you very much.

Colonel FERINGA. Mr. Chairman, the report on Norfolk Harbor, Va., is submitted in response to a resolution adopted by this committee on June 16, 1944.

Norfolk Harbor is 180 miles south of Baltimore. It includes a portion of Hampton Roads, Elizabeth River, and its Western, Eastern, and Southern Branches, and Scotts Creek.

The improvement authorized by Congress provides for a main channel of various widths and 40 feet deep from Hampton Roads up Elizabeth River and into its Southern Branch, a total length of 11.88 miles, reduced to 30 feet deep for a distance of 1.05 miles, thence 25 feet deep to the head of the channel; and for branch and subsidiary channels of various widths and depths; and for anchorage of various sizes and depths. The mean range of tide is 2.7 feet.

Spoil from dredging in Norfolk Harbor and adjacent waters serving Portsmouth, Newport News, and Hampton is now being deposited in deep water in Hampton Roads 1.5 miles west of Fort Wool, but due to its limited capacity, this area will not permit continued use. Other deposit areas in the vicinity have either been filled to capacity or discontinued because of adverse effects on adjacent navigable waters.

There are 230 piers, wharves, and docks in Norfolk Harbor bordering on Hampton Roads, Elizabeth River, and its branches. Twenty of the piers are owned by the United States Navy Department, two by the War Shipping Administration, and one by the United States Engineer Department.

The United States Navy maintains a large naval base and navy yard in Norfolk Harbor.

Commerce of Norfolk Harbor increased from 12,960,500 tons in 1934 to 23,451,800 tons in 1941, exclusive of cargoes in transit and car-ferry tonnage. In 1943, due to war conditions, commerce of the harbor declined to 10,741,862 tons exclusive of lend-lease and military shipments. Coal loadings in normal times at Norfolk and Newport News railway piers for coastwise and foreign trade approximate 15,000,000 tons annually.

During 1940, steamers and motor vessels drawing up to 33 feet, and barges made 11,373 in-bound and out-bound trips in the harbor while naval vessels with drafts up to 34 feet made 3,919 trips.

Norfolk with an estimated population of 231,949 in 1944, is the principal city in the metropolitan area of Hampton Roads with a total population of 656,056. Other cities with their populations are Portsmouth 81,951, and Newport News 44,056.

Shipbuilding and repairing and ship outfitting and supplying are major enterprises of the area. Numerous heavy and light industries, including oil refining, flour blending, and sea food, afford employment to support the population of the area. The rural population is engaged primarily in farming, raising a large variety of products. The improvement desired is a suitable area for the disposal of material dredged from the harbors and waters of the area.

Disposal of such material is one of the major problems attending the development and maintenance of navigation improvements serving Government and private agencies in the ports of Hampton Roads. The district engineer proposes a plan of improvement that provides for the construction of a trapezoidal-shaped disposal area of about 2,500 acres of flats adjacent to and north of Craney Island, for rehandling basins and an approach and exit area to connect the rehandling basins with that channel. The disposal area would be enclosed by stone-faced levees of sand pumped from existing deposits adjacent to and within the disposal area.

Sluiceways would be provided in the westerly levee. The rehandling basins would each be 200 feet by 800 feet dredged to a depth of 40 feet, and spaced 50 feet apart. The approach and exit area would be 3,800 feet long and 600 feet wide dredged to a depth of 28 feet.

The district engineer estimates the future annual dredging in the Hampton Roads area at 4,800,00 cubic yards. The proposed disposal area would be adequate to receive that amount annually for 20 years, or a total of 96,000,00 cubic yards.

The Board is also of the opinion that the entire cost of the improvement should be recovered by the collection of a toll to be assessed users of the facilities. The value of the toll should not be determined until after completion of the project when the costs have become known, and should be subject to the approval of the Chief of Engineers. In determining the value of the toll, the value of the land to be created by the improvement, as well as all other benefits, should be considered.

The Board recommends modification of the existing project for Norfolk Harbor, Va., to provide for the construction of a disposal area of approximately 2,500 acres in Hampton Roads adjacent to and north of Craney Island, including the necessary appurtenances and facilities.

The Chief of Engineers concurs in general in the views and recommends modification of the existing project for Norfolk Harbor, Va., subject to the provisions that

(a) Users of the disposal facilities, other than the Engineer Department, shall pay to the District Engineer a fixed unit toll for such use, including the cost of rehandling dredged material into the disposal area, the amount of such toll to be determined by the Chief of Engineers and to include interest on and amortization of the net investment and operation and maintenance costs:

(b) The Commonwealth of Virginia will

(1) Convey to the United States, by appropriate legislation or otherwise, title to the submerged lands permanently occupied by the disposal area and terminate all existing oyster leases in effect within the limits of the disposal area; it being understood that the United States will compensate private oyster growers for crops in production on the submerged lands at the time of occupancy by the United States; (2) Terminate, prior to the initiation of the construction and for the useful life of the disposal area, the leases of private oyster growers for leaseholds in areas on the south side of Hampton Roads which may be necessary for the construction, maintenance, and operation of the disposal area, including dredging for fill material adjacent to the disposal area; it being understood that at the time of the termination the United States will compensate these oyster growers for crops in production;

(3) Except as provided in (1) and (2) above, release the United States from all claims for such damages as may occur to public or lease oyster bottoms from the construction, maintenance, and operation of the project.

Federal cost of construction.

Annual cost of maintenance and operation__

Board and Chief
of Engineers
$5, 100, 000

609, 000

The tangible benefits would accrue to all users of the project including the United States Engineer Department, the Navy Department, the United States Maritime Commission, eight railroads, commercial steamship interests, shipbuilding and repair companies, and the municipalities of Norfolk, Portsmouth, Newport News, and Hampton. Intangible benefits would include the convenience of utilizing a fairly protected site of disposal, elimination of delays in hauling dredged material to sea and assurance of a definite place of disposal.