State from two to three thousand dollars, perhaps, and I think we would have the work just as well performed for fifteen cents as for twenty cents. MR. ESTEE. Mr. President: Much depends upon what these reporters are to report. If it is intended to make a verbatim report, including all the speeches that are made, the expense will be something enormous, and twenty cents a folio would be too much, and I hope that the fifteen cent proposition of the gentleman from Los Angeles will be adopted. Why, I find here that if our reports will be as large and voluminous as they have been, the reporting and transcribing for this Convention will cost over thirty thousand dollars, according to a careful estimate. I do not think it is wise to make such a disbursement. I am aware that to transcribe from a reporter's notes requires professional skill; an ordinary scribe cannot do it. I think fifteen cents a folio, where the work is so large, is most ample. MR. WILSON, of First District. We accept the amendment. MR. FILCHER. Mr. President: I move to amend the report of the committee by striking out the words "and one assistant." One competent reporter can take the notes of this Convention, and if he is allowed fifteen cents per folio for transcribing those notes he will come under bonds as a responsible party, and thus make this Convention secure. MR. GRACE. Mr. President: I now move that ten cents per folio be the compensation. in that behalf, by common consent and common understanding, was that they had saved a large amount of money to the State, and at the same time secured a faithful report of the debates of the Convention published officially in the manner that I have indicated. Each member was furnished a copy, so many was furnished to the library, and the balance was deposited with the Secretary of State; copies were likewise provided to be furnished to the various States in the Union. It seems to me to be the part of wisdom that we shall take some action here that shall look to the accomplishment of a like result. As I have not heard the report on this matter, I would ask the Secretary to read so much of the report as applies to it. The Secretary read the eighth clause of the report. MR. HERRINGTON. Mr. President: It seems to me that by the adoption of the suggestion of the gentleman from San Francisco, the most important feature in that resolution and the most important action on the part of this body will be lost sight of. If the report taken by the reporters of the proceedings of this Convention be taken down in phonographic character it will remain as Greek to this Convention and to the world. When that reporter is called upon for his longhand report of his transcription of the record, he will say to this Convention, " Gentlemen, it is under lock and key; pay me one hundred thousand dollars for what is on that paper, and I will take it." Now I don't these reporters, every one of them; but, Mr. President, I do not choose to accept the will of any gentleman to a contract after he has performed a portion, and left it in a condition where it is utterly useless to us unless it is transcribed, and he then fix the price. The proposition is now that we make a contract with these reporters to take the notes, not knowing at what rate it will be transcribed, and then to trust to what figures they may choose to place upon it after that is done. This is not the wisdom that should characterize this Convention-to make contracts in that way. I submit that this Convention will not act the part of wisdom to make any such agreement. If we intend to make any arrangements with these reporters, let us make a definite, certain arrangement, whereby the transcription of these reports shall be made out at a certain fixed price, and not trust to what may be done afterwards after the report has been made up. MR. WILSON, of First District. Mr. President: I will state I under-pretend to say that the reporters would say that; they are all gentlemen, stand that the reporters will not accept fifteen cents, and also that two will be necessary. The Convention would not like to elect two in conflict with each other. We, therefore, proposed that one should be elected, who should select his assistant, and that would be necessary, in order to prepare the reports that we intend to have. It will require two. MR. FILCHER. Do you allow the reporter's assistant ten dollars per day? MR. WILSON, of First District. Undoubtedly, the reporters will each receive ten dollars per day; each will receive the per diem. It will require two reporters to do the work. MR. LARKIN. Mr. President: I will go as far as any gentleman on this floor, where the best interests of the people and this Convention are subserved, and I desire to say that this committee considered this matter. We want a report that will be reliable, and we desire a reliable man to make it. I think that fifteen cents per folio is none too much, and I hope there will be no change in the report of the committee, and that, as amended, it will be adopted by this Convention. MR. STEDMAN. Mr. President: I move that we strike out all relating to reporters-and, as an amendment thereto, I desire to offer a resolution: Resolved, That there be employed by the Convention a competent reporter, whose MR. HAGER. The amendment that I offered is before the Convention. I think it has precedence. MR. ESTEE. I hold in my hand a report of the proceedings and debates of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Illinois. Their expenses were fifty-seven thousand five hundred and fifty-two dollars and fifty cents; so you can see how necessary it is to take this matter into serious consideration. THE PRESIDENT. The amendment that is offered is to the eleventh clause, which reads "one Phonographic Reporter and one assistant." The gentleman from Placer moves to strike out "and one assistant." MR. HAGER. Mr. President: This, sir, is a very important question, and I do not know how we can, at this time, act very intelligently upon duty it shall be to make an accurate and faithful report of the debates and daily the subject. Those who are acquainted with bodies where the proceed-proceedings of the Convention. That a Committee on Reporting be appointed, who ings are reported, know what an enormous job the reporter has before shall be authorized to invite and receive proposals from gentlemen qualified to him. Now, take the proceedings of Congress, which are reported ver- discharge the duties of reporter as to the terms upon which they will undertake to batim, every morning following the debates, filling a quarto volume of perform said duties, and that said committee report to the Convention the proposals one hundred pages, and sometimes more, being a full report of every-received, with such recommendations in respect thereto as may be deemed expething that occurs. For this work the reporter's compensation ought to be adequate. When the report of the debates of this Convention are taken, as it is too great a labor for one man, they have to be written out in longhand by stenographers who can read the notes. In other words, the persons that have to write out the shorthand should be just as competent as those who take the notes. I think there ought to be a committee appointed to ascertain in advance what portion of the proceedings we wish to report. Certainly we don't want them to report the committees, or to report resolutions every time they are read by the Secretary. In that way the volume would be swelled to enormous dimensions. I do not think myself that twenty cents per folio is too much. The most important parts to be reported, perhaps, are the debates, because they illustrate the opinions of those who speak upon the propositions that come before the Convention. The proposition itself will be embodied in the reports, and the debates will be an illustration of what the views of the members were on the subject debated. And as for the writing out, I will move that for the time being we elect the reporters, and do not undertake to fix the compensation until we first ascertain, through the committee, what the stenographers are to report. MR. BARBOUR. Mr. President: The Convention perceives now the very difficulty which I pointed out yesterday. So far as the per diem compensation is concerned I have no objection; it is not too much. But the important question for this Convention to determine is what shall be reported and what the compensation shall be for transcribing in longhand those shorthand notes. It will make a very great difference to the treasury of this State what action is taken upon this matter. If everything is taken down and the proceedings reported in full there will be an immense amount to transcribe. That ought to be regulated. I, therefore, second the amendment for the appointment of a committee skilled in the business, if you can find them. MR. HAGER. Mr. President: I move not to appoint the committee at this time, and to strike out the compensation to be allowed for transcribing into longhand. MR. WILSON. Mr. President: It seems to me that we had better adopt this report. Let the committee then undertake, deliberately, to ascertain how far the debates shall be reported, whether there shall be any limit at all, or report the entire proceedings. MR. HALE. Mr. President: I observe, in looking over the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Illinois, held in eighteen hundred and seventy, that the Convention provides, first, for a phonographic report of the debates. Likewise the Convention provides for the publication of those debates, furnishing to the members of the Convention, each morning, so many copies, such a number to be filed with the State officers, and also providing for the publication, in the form of Congressional debates, all the debates in the Convention. A Committee was finally raised to receive propositions to make such reports and to publish them. The whole matter was finally concluded, and the final result of their efforts MR. REYNOLDS. I hardly understand the intention of the question at present. I hope that amendment will not prevail. I speak from some experience, and I know that it is physically impossible for one man to report the proceedings of this entire Convention. The reporter must attend the morning session. It is as much as that man can do during the remaining part of the day to transcribe, or read to amanuenses, his notes. His assistant must come in at the afternoon session and do the same thing. We must therefore have two competent shorthand reporters; certainly not less, perhaps more. As to the compensation. There is no question about the per diem. The only question is about the cost of transcribing. Now it will cost ten cents per folio to hire the writing done. There remains but five cents per folio to compensate the reporter for reading notes, for writing his portion of it, and for overseeing the whole matter, and that is certainly not much. We do not want any second class work done. We cannot peddle it out to the lowest bidder. This Convention must choose the best workmen, and then pay them their price. I hope these amendments to cut down prices or let it out to the lowest bidder will not prevail, but that the report, with the amendment which the committee accepted, will be adopted. Mr. LARKIN. I have an idea that it is not necessary to perpetuate all the discussions in this body, but only such matters as pertain to the debates or propositions to amend the Constitution. The reasons why we adopt the Constitution is the only matter that should be reported-only just matters that are necessary to show to the future generations the reasons why this or that amendment was adopted, is all that should be paid for by the State, or declared by this Convention proper to be paid for as a record of this Convention. All this trifling debate, all these idle matters, are not necessary to be perpetuated. MR. DUDLEY, of San Joaquin. It is evident that this question is one of great importance, and it is also manifest that the members of this Convention do not thoroughly understand it; therefore I move that the subject-matter be referred back to the committee with instructions to report to-morrow, and that it be made the special order for to-morrow at two o'clock P. M. MR. WHITE. We do not understand how this question stands now. We are anxious that the Stedman resolution be read and referred to that committee with thein. MR. PRESIDENT. Regularly this report would be read clause by clause, and would be open to amendment upon each clause. No amendment being offered to the first clauses, the first amendment was by the gentleman from Placer, Mr. Filcher, to amend the eleventh clause by striking out "and one assistant." That is the first question in order, originally. MR. HAGER. I move that we adopt all that portion of the report with the exception of that relating to Phonographic Reporters and their compensation. MR. DUDLEY, of San Joaquin. I suspend my motion. MR. FREEMAN. I think that twelve Pages are more than is necessary. The report provides for eight additional. That is too The statute provides for four. mend that the following compensation be allowed to said officers respectively, viz.: To Assistant Secretaries, each six dollars per day; to the Minute Clerk and Journal day; to the Doorkeepers, each, five dollars per day; to the Pages, each, three dollars Clerk, eight dollars per day; to the Assistant Sergeant-at Arms, eight dollars per per day; to the Postmaster, four dollars per day; to the Mail Carrier, one hundred dollars per month; to the Phonographic Reporter and his assistant, each, ten dollare per day and such additional sum for transcribing into longhand as the standing Committee of the Convention, to whom the same shall be referred, may determine. many.ute Clerk; fourth, one Journal Clerk; fifth, one Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms; sixth, MR. HAGER. By the statute the President has the power to appoint four Pages, and if the committee report four additional that would make eight. As it now stands we would have twelve. MR. FREEMAN. I move that the word "eight" be stricken out and "four" inserted. MR. VAN DYKE. There seems to be some misapprehension in reference to that word "additional." It means additional to the President, Secretary, and Sergeant-at-Arms, with those specified in the statute. It does not mean eight additional Pages added to the four specified in the Act. That is not what the report means. It means eight Pages in all. It is additional to the President, Secretary, and Sergeant-at-Arms. That is what the resolution was that was referred to the committee. It was to report what officers, other than President, Secretary, and Sergeantat-Arms, would be necessary. So in reference to Porters, Doorkeepers, etc. It is not in addition to those specified in the Act. MR. PRESIDENT. The chair has so understood it. It provides for the entire number of officers of the Convention other than President, Secretary, and Sergeant-at-Arms. MR. WINANS. Mr. President: It was the obvious intention of the committee to have eight Pages in the aggregate, and three Doorkeepers. At most it can be only a clerical error. It is not necessary to reach by resolution that which can be met by a simple correction of their report. MR. WILSON, of San Francisco. The entire number was the intention of the committee, in addition to the President, Secretary, and Sergeant-at-Arms. MR. BEERSTECHER. I move that the report be taken up seriatim. MR. EDGERTON. This subject has already occupied the attention of the committee for a long time. It seems to me that the most judicious disposition to make of it is to sustain the motion to recommit the whole subject-matter to the committee. THE PRESIDENT. There was no such motion. The motion was simply to refer the matter of Phonographic Reporters. MR. EDGERTON. I move to amend by recommitting the whole subject-matter to the committee, with instructions to report this afternoon by three o'clock. MR. HUESTIS. This is a question that the Convention will have to meet, and they are probably as well qualified to meet the question and deal with it justly and intelligently now as at any future time. Many of the objections that have arisen here if it is deferred will come up again, and the result will be much more consumption of time. I hope this matter will be disposed of now. MR. DUDLEY, of San Joaquin. I accept the amendment of the gentleman from Sacramento, Mr. Edgerton. MR. MCCALLUM. I would suggest that instead of three o'clock it be amended so that the committee can report before three o'clock. MR. EDGERTON. I move to amend so that the committee be instructed to report as soon as practicable. THE PRESIDENT. The motion is that the report be recommitted to the committee, with instructions to report at the earliest practicable moment. The motion prevailed. MR. BARTON. Pending the deliberations of the committee I move that the 'Convention now proceed to the election of a President pro tem. Mr. Graves offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the Secretary of the Convention have printed for the use of the members of the Convention, five hundred sheet copies of the Act entitled "An Act to provide for a Convention to frame a new Constitution for the State of California," approved March 30th, 1878. MR. AYERS. I believe that is the most economical way to place every member in possession of a copy of the law. The resolution was adopted. The matter to be transcribed to be also determined by such Committee. The officers MR. HOWARD. I move that the report be received. PHONOGRAPHIC REPORTERS. MR. BIGGS. I desire to detain this Convention but a few minutes. As we have come here for retrenchment and reform I propose to offer amendments to that report. And the reason I propose to is this: the people of this State are oppressed by taxation now beyond endurance, and I want to strike out the Phonographic Reporter, notwithstanding gentlemen may say it is an old fogy and exploded idea. Now, I ask this Convention if they want to pay forty thousand dollars or fifty thousand dollars for these debates when they would be published in the papers and sent all over the world. I undertake to say that you may have these debates published at the expense of the State, and you may send them out, and there is not one man in twenty that will ever read them. If the members want their speeches printed and sent broadcast to the world, I ask them to pay for it out of their own pockets. I am for retrenchment and reform, and I don't propose to saddle a burden upon the people of this State, when we can obviate it by striking out that portion of the report of the committee. MR. WHITE. I rise to second the motion. THE PRESIDENT. The Chair will state that it proposes to take up this report in the regular parliamentary way. I shall state each clause of it, and shall await any motion to amend. We will reach the proposition that the member from Butte desires to amend in due course, and I will then receive his motion. MR. BIGGS. Then I understand the report will be taken up seriatim. THE PRESIDENT. Yes; clause by clause. The first clause proposes to elect a President pro tem. The President read each clause. When the sixth clause was reached. DOORKEEPERS. MR. BEERSTECHER. I move to amend that by saying two Doorkeepers, instead of three. MR. O'SULLIVAN. I second the amendment. MR. FILCHER. I move to amend the amendment by striking out "Doorkeepers," and I would say that I understand, from probably as good authority as there is in the State, that under the arrangement of the report of the committee we are likely to need absolutely no Doorkeepers. A gentleman who has been here for two terms asked me if we proposed to appoint Doorkeepers; and if so, what we proposed to do with the Porters. He said that the gate at this central aisle was the proper position of the Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms, and that the Porters might take their positions at the other entrances to this floor. Although I was thoroughly imbued with the idea that we needed Doorkeepers, and took strong ground with him, he made it plain to my mind that the necessity for these Doorkeepers does not exist. MR. BEERSTECHER. I accept the amendment. MR. EDGERTON. Mr. President: If that amendment should preVail, it will not be long before the committee will ascertain that if they Would keep this hall free from all sorts of invasion, from the importuning of members for all sorts of things, that it is necessary to have a Doorkeeper at each of these gates. Such has been the experience of everybody who has been in the Legislature of this State, both in the Senate and Assembly. That disposition to come in and see members has been carried so far, even when they have had Doorkeepers, that it has MR. BLACKMER. I move that this Convention do now adjourn been necessary, repeatedly, to pass resolutions that nobody be permitted until two o'clock. The motion prevailed. AFTERNOON SESSION. The Convention reassembled at two o'clock; President Hoge in the chair. Roll called and one hundred and forty-two members found to be present. On request of Mr. Van Dyke, Mr. Campbell was granted leave of absence for the balance of the week. REPORT. Mr. Wilson submitted the following report of the Committee on Attachés: to come upon the floor without leave obtained from the Chair. MR. BEERSTECHER. It seems to me that if the necessity arises, and it becomes apparent that we must have three Doorkeepers, that we can place them here at any time; but until that necessity becomes apparent, it seems to me that this clause ought to be stricken out of the report as a matter of economy. As far as invasion of the hall is concerned, if a member rises in his seat and states that gentlemen are requested to leave the floor, I am sure that they will retire beyond the bar. If we have a Sergeant-at-Arms and an Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms, we want them for practical purposes, and not as ornaments. I am in favor of striking out this clause entirely. MR. BARBOUR. I shall support the amendment, and I do so upon the ground that I believe there is no necessity for more than the one Doorkeeper authorized by law. I intend to propose, when the organization of this Convention is completed and we are ready for business, that, inasmuch as the space is all occupied, that the space outside of the railing shall be kept clear. Then it will take but one Doorkeeper at the center door. think that is the wish of members, on account of the size of this Convention. If that is true there is no use for three Doorkeepers here; one Doorkeeper will be enough. MR. PRESIDENT: Your committee, appointed under a resolution of the Conven- experience, one of them in the Federal halls, and all of the others in the different State Legislatures-Messrs. Larkin, Murphy, Brown, Van Dyke, and Howard. The different officers we have selected as necessary were the combined judgment and unanimous opinion of the entire committee. I think that any economy upon this subject will be very poor economy in the end. We require this entire hall, and you will not get it unless you have a Doorkeeper at each gate. We will be annoyed with persons and messengers constantly coming into the Convention. I think, and the committee unanimously think, that three Doorkeepers will be necessary. Two Porters are required, and their duties, as understood by every person, will be quite sufficient for the pay they receive. I think the officers recommended will be found to facilitate the business of the Convention and enable us to get to our homes sooner. MR. LARKIN. As a member of that committee I concur in the action of the committee, and for three reasons: We have galleries here that there will have to be order kept in; and the lobbies there, and there must be order kept in them. As soon as the Convention is organized you will have to have some ten or twelve committee rooms; and those committee rooms will have to be attended to have to be kept clean-somebody to attend to them. My experience in this matter is, that this economy in the start, in not selecting the proper number of officers, has not worked well. I, as a member of the Senate, and acting on the Committee on Contingent Expenses, found that I had a pile of resolutions for this employé and that, offered by gentlemen of the Senate. You will find on this floor, if you do not appoint the number you want, it will be necessary within a week-you will find they will each have a friend that they want a place for, and you will find resolution after resolution; and in two weeks you will have double the number we ask for now. I am not in favor of paying one dollar here more than what is absolutely necessary; but I do not propose to make any attempt to get along without this man or that man for the purpose of getting a reputation, when I know that the necessity will arise for all these men. I think it is proper, and I think it is economy, that we proceed to elect these men. MR. NOEL offered the following resolution, which was read for information: Resolved, That the hearing of speeches of members pertaining to the organiza tion of this body be made the special order of business for Sunday, the sixth instant, and that all speeches be deferred until that time, and that the Convention do now 1roceed to effect the organization and the transaction of legitimate business. [Laughter.] PHONOGRAPHIC REPORTERS. MR. FREEMAN. I move to strike out the eleventh clause. It has already been shown, by reading from the report of the Constitutional Convention of Illinois, that the report of the proceedings of that Convention cost about sixty thousand dollars. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that the report of the proceedings of this body will cost only half that sum. The question now being upon the appointment of a reporter, we come down to the proposition whether it is desirable to have this great amount of expenditure. I will remind members, in the first instance, that the appropriation made for this Convention is less than enough to pay the per diem and mileage of the members for the time that we shall probably be in session; therefore, the incurring of any great expenditure would leave us without sufficient means to go on with this Convention to the end. This is a large expenditure to incur; and I would ask what there is that will justify so great an expenditure? We do not propose to publish these proceedings; we do not propose to establish a newspaper; we do not propose to distribute them among our constituents. The only useful object which they can answer is, that other persons desiring to investigate constitutional questions may be able to read the debates which here occur, and gain what wisdom they can from them. This may be a good purpose, but I do not think it is warranted. So far as the proceedings of the Convention are concerned, we have no need of such an officer. There is no such an office in connection with the sessions of the Legislature, where the debates are of a greater variety than they will be likely to be here. We have a Journal of our proceedings, which will at all times show all that was actually done here. The most that these reports can do is simply to flatter the personal vanity of the members in connection with these proceedings. MR. BARNES. I hope the motion made by the gentleman from Sacramento will not prevail. It seems to me, sir, that if there is one expense more than another that ought to be incurred, it is this; and if it costs even more than the amount estimated by the gentleman, who appears to have investigated the subject, I shall still be in favor of it. Bear in mind, Mr. President, we are about to consider some hitherto untried experiments in government, and some are threatened which have been tried and rejected elsewhere, and their incorporation in the organic law of this State will be urged and earnestly pressed. The construction of our present Constitution has occupied the attention of the Courts of this State for many years. It is not unlikely that the Constitution which will be adopted will be subjected to similar judicial criticism and discussion. In view of the important subjects to be here discussed, in view of the laws we propose to establish for municipal government, with reference to corporations, with reference to the tenure of land and of other multitudinous reforms, none of which I need mention, it will be most useful to preserve in the records of this Convention, not merely a bare skeleton that shall indicate what was transacted here, not merely the Constitution as it shall go forth to the people, but what was the thought and the reasoning of this Convention upon these propositions. It is of course absurd to say that the swarm of speechlets made upon microscopic points of order and other immaterial subjects should go upon this journal to be kept for us by the Phonographic Reporters and be published. Such a consummation is to be devoutly deplored. If I understand the proposition of this committee it is to have such portion of the debates preserved as shall be directed by the Convention or a committee appointed for that purpose. For myself I desire that every vote I shall give here upon these important questions shall have a reason behind it. If I shall vote contrary to the prejudices of my constituents, I desire that the reasons which have controlled me shall be photographed. Let our records be crystallized in these reports, that we and all men may see not only what we have done but the reasons for our action. Lawyers, I am sure, are aware that when we seek the construction of a clause in a Constitution it is of great assistance to resort to the debates of the Convention which adopted it. What does it amount to? Suppose it cost fifty thousand dollars to enable the Courts and those who come after us to understand the reasons which brought us to the conclusions to which we shall arrive, and preserve forever a record of all the views and opinions of those who shall take part in this great work? This subject might be greatly enlarged upon, but for the present I respectfully urge upon gentlemen that they should preserve not merely the fact that we voted so and so, but the whole record, plain and clear. If there is anything to be done by the gentlemen who proposed to establish these promised radical reforms, I desire that others who may wish to adopt Constitutions, perhaps like this, may have the benefit of these debates, and that they shall remain in the great libraries of every State, and be to them what the proceedings and debates of the States of Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan have been to us in the preparation for our work, and that our record shall stand side by side with theirs. Mr. MCFARLAND. I believe there is some misunderstanding here. I understand that by adopting the report of the committee we only say that we will employ two reporters at a certain salary per day. That costs but twenty dollars per day. They record in shorthand all the proceedings of this Convention. Now, when you come to transcribing it we come to a matter that is not determined by this resolution. That is left to the future judgment and action of this Convention. I certainly would be opposed to transcribing into longhand and keeping a journal of everything that occurs here, although I think a great many things ought to be so kept. The report simply provides for taking down the proceedings in shorthand. If we want them written out hereafter it can be done. If you adopt the motion of the gentleman from Sacramento and strike this out of the report, you simply determine now that there shall not be any shorthand reporter. I do not think the Convention is now ready to take so decided an action as that. Let us adopt this report, elect the reporter, and hereafter, by means of a committee appointed for that purpose, or if you choose to change that by the judgment of the Convention in some other shape, determine how much we want transcribed. Mr. BIGGS. I would ask if the reports were taken down and transcribed into longhand, who upon this floor would read them? It is a waste of that much time and public money. I want to deal with plain facts. I am for retrenchment and reform, notwithstanding my friend here says I am the watch-dog of the treasury. Gentlemen, God knows, that from the way we have been progressing since we have commenced here last Monday, I think it will need a little closer watching than I am able to do. Mr. HEISKELL. I am a producer. I represent a producing constituency. I heartily concur in the ideas of the gentleman from San Francisco, Mr. Barnes. I have no fears that the expenditure of this money will ever meet with the disapprobation of the people of this State. I will say to the gentleman from Butte, Mr. Biggs, let him join in this Convention in producing a Constitution that will do justice to the producer and put some restraint upon the money powers, and he will never hear a word from the people against him for this appropriation, even if fifty thousand dollars should be necessary to publish the debates of this Convention. MR. WHITE. I wish to say that I also represent a producing constituency, and I am satisfied that not one man in a hundred will sanction an appropriation of fifty or sixty thousand dollars for this business. I am satisfied that they want men that will oppose it. They know that the Supreme Court of the State of California decides these questions without any reference to the debates of the members on the floor. Do you suppose they rule in this way: "Mr. So-and-so proposed such and such a thing in this Convention?" I had no idea that it would cost more than seven or eight thousand dollars; but it may come up to one hundred thousand dollars, and it can't be less than thirty or forty thousand dollars. I trust and hope that every man that is opposed to this taxation which is breaking us all down and ruining the country, will stand by us and vote down that proposition. MR. HUESTIS offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the Convention elect one Phonographic Reporter, and that he be allowed such assistants as he may deem necessary; that the reporter of this Convention be required to furnish verbatim reports of its proceedings, and that he receive five thousand dollars in full compensation for his services as such reporter. MR. ESTEE. I would suggest that the question of Phonographic Reporters be made the special order for to-morrow, at eleven o'clock. My reason, if I may be allowed to give the reason, is that the last resolution introduced is too indefinite. If the Convention should proceed upon that theory it ought to prescribe when these reports are to be written out. If they are to be written out it should be done so that they could be laid on the desks of members the next morning. I move that the eleventh clause of that report be made the special order for to-morrow, at eleven o'clock. MR. REYNOLDS. Mr. President: I wish to make a little calculation in regard to the cost of reporting the debates of this Convention. If the gentlemen who have been talking about forty and fifty and sixty thousand dollars will look at this morning's issue of the Record-Union they will find a full and complete report of yesterday's proceedings, which makes five solid columns of solid nonpareil. Now let us look at that and see what that cost. I have made an actual count and find it amounts to ninety-four folios, which, at twenty cents per folio, would be eighteen dollars and ninety cents; add to that a per diem of twenty dollars would MR. FREEMAN. That resolution is premature. The Convention has just provided for a committee. If they recommend that we have a Phonographic Reporter, and we decide to have one, then the resolution will be material. Therefore I move that the resolution be laid on the table. MR. BARNES. I understand that this whole subject matter has been referred to a committee. I submit that the discussion is out of order. MR. O'DONNELL. I move that the resolution be referred to the committee. make thirty-eight dollars and ninety cents for reporting yesterday's pro-hand the State can have a copyright of that longhand report. In other ceedings. To-day we have spent the entire session in talking about it. words, I desire that this report of the official reporter be in longhand Perhaps a full report of to-day's debates would amount to ten columns, copies, and let the title to it be in the State, and the work in an intellimaking the total cost of reporting to-day's proceedings about eighty gent form. dollars. There seems to be a great misapprehension in regard to the expense of this reporting. The gentlemen have quoted with interest from the Illinois debates to show that it will cost fifty or sixty thousand dollars. Let us come right down to the figures. Here is an actual example of what it will cost a day, and we will base our calculations upon that. I concur in the remarks of the gentleman from San Francisco, Mr. Barnes, in regard to the propriety of publishing these debates; and it seems to me that we should publish a verbatim report or none at all. This idea of garbling a report, cutting out and putting in this thing and that, of this member or of that, will create great confusion, and in the end lead to difficulties. Let us have a verbatim report. The State of California can afford to pay for it at these rates. Here we are talking away two thousand dollars a day, while the total cost in the difference we are contending about will only amount to a few hundred dollars in the end. Let us adopt the report as it came from the committee, to appoint a reporter and one assistant, pay him a fair price for good work, stop this talk and get to business. [Applause.] MR. HARVEY. I desire to add a proviso to the resolution: Resolved, that the notes shall not be written out unless the Constitution framed by this Convention be adopted by the people and the transcribing and printing thereof provided for by an Act of the Legislature. MR. HERRINGTON offered the following resolution as a substitute: Resolved, That one reporter and assistant, to be selected by the reporter, be employed at a per diem of ten dollars each, for taking the proceedings of this Convention in shorthand, with the understanding and agreement that each day's proceedings are to be transcribed at a cost to the State of not exceeding six thousand dollars transcribing the entire proceedings of the Convention. of The motion prevailed. FURTHER ORGANIZATION. MR. MURPHY. I move that we proceed to the further organization The Chair announced that nominations were then in order. MR. REDDY nominated J. M. Farrelly, of San Francisco. MR. MCCOMAS nominated Albert French, of Santa Clara. FIRST BALLOT. The roll was called, with the following result: MR. HERRINGTON. I am satisfied of the importance of preserving the proceedings of this Convention, but I am unwilling that the cost attending its preservation shall be uncertain and left to contingencies Ayers, in the future. I am satisfied that the work can be done for that price. Caples, If I am correctly informed a party who is reporting the proceedings of Dunlap. this Convention says, that if that amount is set apart to secure the Edgerton, that it will be done for that amount or less, and that is why I offer this Estee, resolution, so that we may fix a limit. Freeman, pay MR. AYERS. I am afraid, judging from the range which this discussion has taken, that the gentlemen of this Convention have become somewhat confused on the topic. They have, it seems to me, mixed the printing of the report of the debates with the reporting of the debates. This question does not reach to the length to which the gentlemen seem to believe it does. If this Convention should make matter to the extent of ten solid columns of nonpariel every day, the transcription at twenty cents per folio would amount, in the one hundred days, to exactly five thousand dollars. It is impossible that the reporting of this Convention can reach any such sum as has been suggested by Mr. Estee, after looking at the Illinois reports. MR. ESTEE. That was for paper, printing, and reporting. MR. AYERS. We have a State Printing Office here which takes charge of the printing, and the expenses of that printing will not come out of the appropriation which belongs legitimately to the expenses of this Convention. Hence, if you appoint reporters at the regular per diem, and you place the charge per folio at twenty cents or fifteen cents, there can be no great extravagance in the matter, because I do not believe if we talked all the time we could possibly talk more than ten FOR STEWART. Howard, Kelley, Larue, McCallum, McFarland, FOR ROSS. Dudley, of San Joaquin, Hitchcock, Barnes, Hager, Charles, Boggs, Hoge, Inman, columns. MR. MURPHY. I move that we adopt all of the report except that portion of it in relation to Phonographic Reporters. The motion prevailed. Belcher, Moreland, Van Dyke, Walker, of Tuolumne, Prouty, Van Voorhies, FOR FRENCH. Rhodes, Webster-12. Smith, of 4th District, Townsend, Smith, of Santa Clara, Weller-12. MR. MURPHY. I move that the question in regard to Phonographic Cowden, Reporters be referred to a committee of five to be appointed by the Glascock, Chair. It is understood that I do not want to be on that committee, Hale, although I make the motion. MR. NOEL. It seems to me that we might settle the question in regard to these reporters without any further delay. We have been discussing that question all day. We want a proposition that we can understand, like that of the gentleman from Santa Clara, Mr. Herrington; one that is reasonable in its terms; a proposition by which the work is to be done in gross. Gentlemen of the Convention will then distinctly understand what compensation the reporters are to receive. If it can be done for any sum lower than that, I will vote for that. We certainly need a reporter. Keves, Cross, Kleine, Sweasey, Resolved, That this committee of five upon reporters be appointed by the Chair, also draw and submit a contract to this Convention for its approval, whereby the reporters will be bound in a certain penal sum to perform their duties according to Gorman, the wishes of this Convention, and which will secure such reports written out in Grace, longhand for the use of the State. MR. BEERSTECHER. I offer this resolution for the purpose of protecting the State. If we merely appoint a Phonographic Reporter, and Berry, he takes the reports in shorthand, of course we have not got the advan- Graves, tage of the reports so taken, and after the reports are all taken these Heiskell, gentlemen can turn around and say, Here are the phonographic reports and I desire to have my compensation for the work that I have done;" or, "If you desire to have the reports made intelligible you have got to pay." It is a well known fact that each reporter has a peculiar way of his own. In a matter of this kind a question might arise, and after we had expended the sum of five or six thousand dollars we would not have anything but a hieroglyphic document that no one could read but the man who wrote it. But the moment that it is written out in long- Tinnin, Andrews, Nelson, Walker, of Marin, Wellin, West, Rolfe, Filcher, Wilson, of 1st District-2. At five o'clock P. M. Mr. McCallum moved to adjourn till to-morrow at ten o'clock A. M. The President announced the appointment of the following committee in accordance with the motion this day adopted, to appoint a special committee of five to consider the eleventh clause of the report of the committee appointed to determine the number and designation of offi At four o'clock and thirty minutes P. M., Mr. Barnes moved to cers of this Convention: Messrs. Murphy, Filcher, O'Sullivan, Shoeadjourn till to-morrow at ten o'clock a. M. Lost. maker, and Ayers. The Convention then adjourned, to meet to-morrow at ten o'clock a. M. Stevenson, Tinnin, Wickes 15. 141 71 15 Mr. French received. 18 Mr. Mosely received. 47 Mr. Ross received 7 11 9 13 12 9 13 11 7 |