spend at all seven places in order to repair damage to local protection works caused by the 1938 flood?

Colonel BRAGDON. $773,000, the break-down shows.

Mr. CLASON. So that part of your need for additional funds at this time may be attributed to flood damage caused by the flood of September 1938 against local protection work which had already been started.

Colonel BRAGDON. That is correct; yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. Well, am I right in assuming that the Springfield project will be completed with funds which are on hand? Colonel BRAGDON. That is correct; yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. And when do you anticipate the final completion of the work at Springfield?

Colonel BRAGDON. I would say about the middle of the next working season. We have finished the north area and the south area. We are about to award the conduit, and that conduit, I think, will run into the next working season just a little bit.

Mr. CLASON. That "next working season" is when?

Colonel BRAGDON. I mean by "working season," we consider the working season beginning about the 1st of April and running to about the end of October or into November, and I believe the conduit will run a little into the next year. That would be into 1941.

Mr. CLASON. In other words, that would be around August or September of 1941?

Colonel BRAGDON. I think it will be better than that. Probably by June of 1941.

Mr. CLASON. June 1941 it will be completed?

Colonel BRAGDON. I can give you that exactly if I can refer to my data when I get back, but that is my recollection.

Mr. CLASON. In other words, that would be over a year away? Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. And in the meantime to what extent by temporary measures could the city close off the floodwaters from the Connecticut River if there was another flood?

Colonel BRAGDON. Well, it could backwater up the Mill River until the conduit is built. Until that is finished you still do not have complete protection.

Mr. CLASON. In other words, they cannot be assured of complete protection until June 7, 1941.

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir. May I correct that date? If anything, I think it will be a little earlier rather than later.

Mr. CLASON. It will be earlier rather than later?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. Now, under your original estimates you provided for how many pumping plants?

Colonel BRAGDON. Four.

Mr. CLASON. Now, to go back through the history: On December 11, 1937, Secretary Woodring sent up a report, No. 455, in which he provided, or in which he indicated, that the War Department favored the pumping plants to be considered as an integral part of a flood-control system and that they should be paid for 100 percent by the Federal Government.

Colonel BRAGDON. That is correct; yes, sir; House Document 455.

Mr. CLASON. And at that time Springfield had under consideration a P. W. A. project for the construction of these four pumping plants which were even then under consideration and more or less known as to capacity, and the city was to pay for 55 percent and the Federal Government 45 percent.

Colonel BRAGDON. That particular transaction I had nothing to do with, but I understand that is correct.

Mr. CLASON. Do you recall having any talks with city officials at that time in regard to the city having a P. W. A. project to build these pumping plants?

Colonel BRAGDON. No, sir; I don't recall that. The mayor of Springfield, however, did inform me that the city had expended $636,000 of its own money for pumping plants.

Mr. CLASON. For these four pumping plants?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. Now, if the city had not built the pumping plants at that time, would those pumping plants have been completed, in your opinion, at the same time that the Mill River conduit should be completed?

Colonel BRAGDON. I doubt that, sir. I think those plants would be in about the same status as our Chicopee plants. The Chicopee plants are now under design, all of them, and I think this would be about the same status.

Mr. CLASON. So the Springfield mayor, by going ahead with this work or by carrying forward this project, the city of Springfield has gotten its pumping plants into a position where they could be used in the case of a flood at an earlier time than if the pumping plants were to be built by the Army engineers?

Colonel BRAGDON. That is correct. There are three of them ready to operate or they were ready to operate last October, and the fourth is now ready, although their equipment contract has not been quite completed. But they all four can operate now.

Mr. CLASON. But the net result is that the city of Springfield has been called upon to pay $636,000 of its own funds, while all of the other cities and towns, including Hartford, are going to get their pumping plants wholly at the expense of the Federal Government. Colonel BRAGDON. Well, they did that of their own free will, of course. Yes, sir; that is substantially correct. They did spend $636,000 of their own money, and I understand that the P. W. A. paid the balance.

Mr. CLASON. But on the other hand, the city of Springfield, by attempting to secure flood control at the earliest possible date for its city, is really being penalized to the extent of $636,000 as compared with the other cities which are receiving their pumping plants wholly at Federal expense?

Colonel BRAGDON. That is correct; yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. And the law that was passed that permitted the 100 percent payment by the Federal Government was the act of June 22, 1938?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir: that is correct.

Mr. CLASON. Well, in fairness to the city of Springfield, they should be entitled to get back $636,000?

Colonel BRAGDON. The act of 1938 did not make any change with respect to local contributions for local protective works.

Mr. CLASON. This is what I mean by that, sir: It was the act of 1938 which adopted the comprehensive plan for the Connecticut River as set forth in House Document 455.

The CHAIRMAN. But so far as the cost to the local interests is concerned, the act of 1938 in that regard is identical with the act of 1936. Mr. CLASON. Perhaps I am wrong, but didn't Document 455 for the first time set forth that pumping plants should be considered as an integral part of the flood-protection system, to be paid for entirely by Federal funds?

The CHAIRMAN. I may state for the record that in my country prior to 1936, one of the highest points down there, a little point. called Vicksburg-some of your grandfathers may have heard about it-had to pay for their flood walls because they anticipated floodcontrol measures. They have made progress, and I am for that progress.

Mr. CLASON. That is right, but when compared with what has been done by the Federal Government for the other cities and towns under this local protection work project, the city of Springfield should be reimbursed $636,000, should it not?

Colonel BRAGDON. That is a question of policy, sir, that I would not want to answer.

Mr. CLASON. Now, in view of the controversy which arose over the compact, the legislation in regard to reservoirs on the Connecticut River did not proceed in orderly fashion. Is that a fair statement to make?

Colonel BRAGDON. It did delay the program I would say at least

a year.

Mr. CLASON. And under the present law the total number of reservoirs which are authorized are those which are approved in which act?

Colonel BRAGDON. The Flood Control Act of 1938.

Mr. CLASON. And that provides, or, at least, the document which was approved in that act provided, for 20 reservoirs to be built. Colonel BRAGDON. Twenty principals and 11 alternates, yes, sir. Mr. CLASON. Now, I understand that you have sent forward a report on a comprehensive reservoir system for the whole valley which includes more reservoirs than 20?

Colonel BRAGDON. That is a report that has not reached the Chief Engineer's office yet, sir. I have forwarded a report which revises a comprehensive plan for the entire Connecticut River.

Mr. CLASON. In order that only those reservoirs may now be under consideration which are authorized under the 1938 act, how many of the reservoirs which are now authorized under the 1938 act are included in the report which you have sent forward?

Colonel BRAGDON. There are 16 reservoirs which I mentioned in that report, plus 3 substitutes which are direct substitutes, a little lower down on the same river.

Mr. CLASON. And these substitutes would be considered as under the act of 1938 by the provisions of that act?

Colonel BRAGDON. The Chief of Engineers would have to so decide. Usually so, as I understand, there isn't much objection to locating one within better engineering practice for better flood-control protection on the same stream somewhat lower down.

Mr. CLASON. And could you furnish the committee a table of these 19 reservoirs, showing, for instance, their drainage area and their capacity and break-down of their cost?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes; I could.

(The table referred to follows:)

Revised estimated costs of dams included in proposed increase in authorization for Connecticut River Basin

NOTE 1.-Reservoirs 1 to 16 are the same as reservoirs in H. Doc. 455, 75th Cong., 2d sess., 1 to 14 being principals, 15 and 16 being alternates in that report. New estimates are given. Totais for reservoirs 1 to 16 are: Construction, $25,413,000; railroads and utilities, $3,155,000; lands and damages, $3,620,000; highway, $5,176,000; total, $37,364,000.

2. Reservoirs 17, 18, and 19 are substitutes, on the same liver, for reservoirs in H. Doc. 455. Definite project report for Sugar Hill (substitute for Bethlehem Junction) has already been submitted.

Mr. CLASON. And perhaps you could give us at the present time what would be the cost of constructing those 19 reservoirs.

Colonel BRAGDON. I have such a figure here, sir. The total cost of 19 reservoirs such as we have described would be, $52,404,000.

Mr. CLASON. Now, this list includes reservoirs which are now under construction and those which you expect to construct if appropriations are made available?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. Are made available and with the present financial authorization of $10,028,000 for construction.

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. And if all these 19 reservoirs were completed, how much would they increase the height of floodwaters at Springfield?

Colonel BRAGDON. A little less than 2 feet, sir. That would be the 1936 flood?

Mr. CLASON. Based on the 1936 flood; yes.

Colonel BRAGDON. I made a mistake, sir. That should be 4.9 feet or we will call it 5 feet.

Mr. CLASON. Practically 5 feet?

Colonel BRAGDON. Practically 5 feet; yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. Now, when they speak at the present time of an authorization of $10.028,000 for construction, the Federal Government will still go ahead and buy the lands on which dams to that amount of money may be constructed?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLASON. So that the total cost including plans is in excess of $10,028,000?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir. If you add lands and damages to that it will be greater.

Mr. CLASON. How much further authorization would you have to have in order to secure both the construction of the 19 dams and also pay for the other costs such as the cost of the land, in order to complete the 19 dams?

Colonel BRAGDON. About $38,500,000.

Mr. CLASON. And I presume that if a favorable report is made upon the program which is now in the possession of Colonel Hall at New York, it would include a much larger program than the $52,000,000 for reservoirs.

Colonel BRAGDON. Well, that is a report that contains more than those 19 dams. There is a greater program than those 19 in that report.

Mr. CLASON. Well, now, I realize that you are not in position, perhaps, to discuss that report until it has been passed upon by your superior, but what would be the total decrease in the height of floodwaters at Springfield if you carry through the construction of reservoirs to the amount of the present authorization of $10,028,000 for construction.

Colonel BRAGDON. That is the figure-slightly less than 2 feet on the 1936 flood.

Mr. CLASON. And could you tell us what reservoirs those would be? Colonel BRAGDON. Within the $10,000,000, sir?

Mr. CLASON. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRAGDON. Knightville, Surry Mountain-under construction-Birch Hill, soon to be, Union Village, Tully, Lower Naukeag, North Springfield, and Ayersbrook.

Mr. CLASON. And some of them you would call comparatively small reservoirs?

Colonel BRAGDON. Yes, sir. There are three of them that are very, very small.

Mr. CLASON. Now, when would you expect to have those reservoirs completed?

Colonel BRAGDON. That depends entirely on appropriations, sir. Mr. CLASON. And for the money that you have got appropriations for. for the purpose of building reservoirs, how many would that cover?

Colonel BRAGDON. Three.

Mr. CLASON. And when would you expect those to be completed?