contiguous, and through which they may pass during the day. One man thus employed has lived in a house in the yard for many years.

2. White Lead.-The chief number of men, and all the women except one, are employed in this department. When the carbonate of lead is taken off the beds, which is done by hand, it is immediately wetted and crushed under rollers, supplied with a shower of water, and the white lead pulp, after settling, is transferred to the drying stones. Cleanliness is enforced as much as possible on this class of workpeople, and it is found the more intelligent, who generally pay more attention to this matter, do not suffer so much as the ignorant and dirty. Attempts have been made to provide respirators to be used when the dry lead is being packed, but the workmen invariably frustrate these good intentions.

3. Red Lead. Three men and one woman are employed. Although the red lead dust thickly covers the walls about the factory, these men do not suffer in any degree to be compared with those in the white lead department. The insolubility of red lead may to some extent explain this result.

4. One and sometimes two men are employed in Paint Grinding, where the dry white lead is mixed with oil. A steady, cleanly man may work a great many years without suffering materially from lead poisoning in this department. It has been observed that, when attacked with lead sickness, the seat of pain or disorder is more frequently in the head, although paralysis of the hands also super

venes.

5. The Coopers necessarily are exposed to dust in heading up dry white lead casks and repairing old ones, but they also suffer in a less degree than the white lead workpeople. It is found that some constitutions become acclimatised better than others, and two men are now employed who have been in the lead works 30 years; others have been 6, 8, and 12 years respectively. The present foreman has been in the place for 24 years without having suffered from a direct attack of lead poisoning. The meh are freely supplied with the common remedies, but are always urged to put themselves under medical care, which is provided by the firm, and they receive a weekly gratuity while on the sick list. A daily allowance of a pint of beer is served out in the morning and afternoon. A new hand coming to work in the white lead department will be taken with lead sickness in about 4 or 6 months' time on an average, but often in 12 or 13 weeks.

Mr. MADDISON read a paper on the Condition of Coal Miners, in which he urged the importance of intelligence among the workpeople themselves, and the necessity for teaching them the principles and use of the safety-lamp. He threw upon the owners of mines the onus of providing the best possible machinery of every kind and of keeping it in working order, and suggested that the inspectors of mines should examine the boys as inspectors of factories do, in order to secure their education under the Act. Efficient managers and strict discipline were also required.

DISCUSSION.

Mr. EDWARD SMITH: I have great pleasure in responding to the call of the chairman to say something on this very important subject. As, however, there are some strangers present, who may not know with what authority I speak on the subject, I may mention, in starting, that I have been for 20 years the owner of grinding-wheel property, and during that time have been daily in the habit of going among that class of men. I can, therefore, from personal observation, speak to the accuracy of all those things which Dr. Hall has so graphically described; in fact, I may say that he has not painted half the evils of the system. When I first became acquainted with the work I went in among the grinders, and had a great deal of conversation with them. Now and then I would go into the fork-grinding halls, where the air was so loaded with dust and steel particles, that as soon as I opened the door I began to cough, and I have said to the men, "What are you doing, living in such an atmosphere as this?" and throwing away your lives. The men took in very good part all that I said, but the question arose-What is to be the remedy? That was the real difficulty. Now I very much approve of Dr. Hall's suggestion, that there should be a classification of the grinders. Dry grinders should never be allowed to work in the same room with other workmen; and I should very much wish to see a limitation of the age at which boys go to the trade, whether it be dry or wet grinding. It is not necessary, for the gaining of skill in grinding, that they should go when very young to commence their apprenticeship; and the reason of their being sent at so early an age, in the great majority of cases, is that it is a convenience to the father. I would, therefore, have a limitation of the age at which boys should begin to work. The limit might vary according to the class of work to be done; but at all events I would have the limit fixed high enough. Grinding is not a trade that must necessarily be learned young; and boys can begin it later in life than some other occupations. Then, again, I think that some arrangement might be made for enforcing the use of fans. There was an idea which, I think, was a mistake, that it was the metallic particles that did the mischief to the grinders; and there was a metallic apparatus suggested for catching, at the mouth, these particles, but I believe it is not so much the iron as the sand-dust from the stones that gets into the lungs. "Well," I said to the men, "this is not an atmosphere for you to live in. What are you to do? You must get fans, and you must insist on their being used." Oh," was the reply," we should only be too glad, but we poor fork-grinders cannot afford it. We are run down in price, and we have not money enough to buy fans." "Well," I said, "if you are in earnest I will show you what I feel in the matter. If you will promise that you will keep them in order, 1 will put up a fan at every trough, and they won't cost you a shilling of expense." Well, I got the fans fitted up, but when I entered the room about a month afterwards, I found two or three of them not working, but in a dilapidated condition, and the dust was as bad as before. "Well," I said, "you promised that you would keep the fans all right and in working order; have you done it?" One man turned round and blamed the lad behind him, and began to scold him for his neglect, but I could see the real fact was that the men did not want to use them. Another man said they could not get the use of them without much bother; he said the fans required to be altered every time they shifted the stone. I think it would be well if the racing of the stone were limited to a certain time of the day-say before breakfast in the morning-and that the employment of fans should be enforced. But I admit that there would be great difficulty here. I admit that, whatever regulations might be made, it would be very difficult to get the men to carry them out. Masters might by law be compelled to put up fans, but they could not see that they were used. To do this would require a policeman in every room, and I would not envy that man his post, for I am sure be would have very warm work of it among a set of grinders. I believe, however, that if the great injury to life and health, resulting from the present system, were brought properly before the men, and their wives and families, they might come to some agreement among themselves, and have it established as one of

H H

the regulations of their trades' unions, that any man found working without a fan should be subjected to a heavy penalty. I believe that would be the only effectual way of correcting the mischief; and that is the main point on which I differ from Dr. Hall. I think that the idea of getting masters to enforce on the men the use of fans is not practicable. The masters cannot enforce the use of them; but the men may do so of themselves by means of their trades' unions. The use of fans is becoming more and more necessary. We have great changes taking place which are bringing a great number of workpeople from country places. My family was connected with the erection of the first steam-grinding establishment. These changes brought down many people to Sheffield who were formerly in airy situations in the country, where they had good health; but, coming into the close work of the town, they have become accustomed to town habits, and to town intemperance, which I believe after all is the greatest evil that afflicts the grinder. If I were asked my opinion, whether most men met their death through the practice of dry-grinding or through the beershop, 1 would say it was by the beershop that certainly the greatest number was carried off.

Mr. JOHN WILSON, grinder: I believe that there are many difficulties in the way of enforcing the regulations suggested by Dr. Hall. I believe there would be great practical difficulties in the classification of the grinders. You might have wet grinders all working together, and yet find great difficulty in the way of promoting ventilation; and I believe that the classification of the grinders would involve the re-modelling of some of the largest works in the town. The fact is, that while one man, whose work involves a good deal of physical exertion, may be able to keep himself very warm, another, whose work is a deal lighter, may be getting very cold, from the means used for ventilation, and which are supposed to be for the preservation of health. One class of workmen, in fact, might be starving from cold, while those in the other classes were working in a state of perspiration. The man who is working at a heavy job is nearest to the fire, and is therefore hotter than some of his neighbours; hence the difference of opinion as to the means that should be adopted for the purpose of ventilation. There is no doubt about this, that the grinders are not so amiable to each other, or so amenable to the rules of civilised life, as they might be. Some will have their windows to remain open, and others will have them shut. and these differences of opinion prove very annoying on many occasions. A grinder holds, that his employer has no more right to come into the place where he works, than he (the employer) has to come into that grinder's own private house, and dictate as to what he shall do in it. Then, as to the fans, there is great difficulty in keeping them in working order. When Messrs. Rogers and Sons built the wheel at which I work, they put in what were considered model fans; but they were soon out of order. The success of fans does not depend upon the money they cost, but on the principle upon which they are constructal I repeat, that there are difficulties surrounding the question, but I am not sure that the best way is not to leave it to the settlement of the grinders themselves. I know that there are many grinders much older than what is called the average age, and who have worked continuously at their trade; but these are the steady men, and I entirely repudiate the notion that the drunken grinders are the longest livers. The thing is preposterous, and contrary to the facts. I don't think it is necessary for the men to get drink in order to prolong their lives; and I do not admit that there is anything of a low physical type in the grinder. The sports of the Sheffield Football Club were ce tested by all the cricket and athletic clubs of the town and of the neighboar hood for 50 miles round, and the man who won the prize on the last occasive, for vaulting over a string at a great elevation, was a grinder. At the athie c sports connected with the establishment at which I work (Messrs. Rodgers), the prizes for the 600 yards and the 300 yards races, the running leap and the veteran handicap, were all won by grinders. I am myself 44 years age, and have been employed 33 years in a grinding-wheel, and I have never yet felt any great difficulty in going up hill. Every time I go to work, I have to go up 43 steps, and I can ascend them as quickly as most men of my age, whether grinders or not. In the hull in which I work we have no

fans, but before we did away with fans, we did away with the drystone. With reference to the limitation of the age at which children are sent to the grindingwheels, I think that is very desirable indeed. I should like to see it brought about by a higher state of morals on the part of the parents, though I know that in many cases children are sent early to work from necessity.

Mr. E. SMITH: I presume it is quite well known that Mr. Wilson is a practical man, a mechanical man, and that therefore his opinions are of great importance. I beg to ask him, then, whether everything that is now done by dry-grinding, could not be done quite as well by wet-grinding, if more time was given to it?

Mr. WILSON: No; that is a fallacy. I believe that the grinding of razors is impossible with the wet-stone. If they could not be ground dry, they would require to be shaped with a file.

THE PRESIDENT; And is that the only exception?

Mr. WILSON: No, there are needles, scissors, &c.

THE PRESIDENT: Because, I thought if that was the only exception, if men would only cultivate their beards, and give up shaving, the difficulty would be removed. May I ask you, Mr. Wilson, whether you think that drunkenness is diminishing among your fellow-workmen ?

Mr. WILSON: Most assuredly.

Dr. STEVENSON MACADAM, Edinburgh: I think, Mr. Chairman, that however healthy such intelligent grinders as Mr. Wilson may be, the Department should not forget that the startling fact has been brought before us, that the death rate in Sheffield among all classes is 34 in 1,000, which is certainly 10 in 1,000 above what it ought to be; and this mortality takes place in a town peculiarly favoured by its natural position for being a healthy residence. The hill and dale character of the district facilitates proper drainage being carried out, so that all the sewage could be carried away from the town; and the analysis of the water referred to by Dr. Hall shows that the town of Sheffield is supplied with water of better quality than most towns; indeed, only two or three places, such as Aberdeen and Glasgow, can boast of enjoying the advantage of water of such purity. In regard to the special ailment of the grinders, and the means of arresting the cause of it, I consider that the fan arrangement is the only safeguard, as anything in the shape of a muzzle or respirator would never be tolerated by the workmen. Several ineffectual attempts have been made in other branches of industry to employ respirators, but have failed, owing to the inconvenience attendant on the practical use of them. The late Professor George Wilson, fifteen years ago, endeavoured to persuade the stonemasons of Edinburgh to wear a respirator to protect them from the fine stone particles or dust which were inhaled by them when dressing the stone. The respirators were made of thin horn, perforated, and covered with thin woollen cloth. They were very light, and easily adapted to the mouth and nostrils; but the workmen found them inconvenient to wear, and they tended moreover to retain the heat naturally lost by respiration, so that the men became disagreeably warm. I have myself worn this muzzle or respirator for some hours at a time, and the consequence was that, even in the absence of manual labour, the animal system became uncomfortably hot. Many of the stonemasons of Edinburgh have since learned to wear moustaches with great benefit, in the arrestment of much stone-dust which would otherwise enter the lungs. Another attempt to introduce respirators was made by Dr. Stenhouse, of London, some years ago, when he constructed his charcoal respirator, to be worn by men whose employment necessitates that they enter common sewers, and other places where noxious gases or organic effluvia are generated, and are present. This respirator was a small wire cage filled with chips of charcoal, and covered with thin cloth. It was quite efficacious in arresting the gases, but the heating effect of using such a respirator, owing to the charcoal being a bad conductor of heat, and the animal warmth being retained, was such that the workmen could not be got to use the respirator. I have also tried this respirator, and am satisfied that there is good reason for considering that it is uncomfortable to wear, though efficacious in its operation. Mr. RAWLINSON, C.E.: I have heard the papers read on this subject with very great interest indeed. The general mortality, I find, in Sheffield, is 34 in 1,000. This means that the death rate in this town exceeds what it ought to be

to the extent of somewhere about 2,000 persons per annum. The mortality in London very little exceeds 21 or 22 or 23 in 1,000. I may state that in Sheffield, the municipal body, up to a very recent period, were not possessed of the necessary powers to carry out proper sanitary arrangements. The Town Council recently possessed itself of these powers, by placing themselves under the Local Government Act; I know it is in contemplation to take up the question of sewerage and drainage, and to carry out certain improvements in that respect, and I do hope and believe that the Sheffield of a few years hence, will present an aspect very different indeed from the Sheffield of to-day.

DR. HALL, in reply: I think that the little cesspools which formerly existed in almost every house, have by a system of sewerage been collected into an enormous cesspool without any ventilation; but I trust that the day will come, when the sewage will be kept out of our rivers, and that means of poison. ing the inhabitants avoided. With regard to the remarks of my friend, Mr. Edward Smith, I do not agree with him in reference to the fan. I believe it to be quite possible to compel grinders to have a fan attached to their wheels as part of the machinery. The result of my inquiry amongst intelligent grinders, is that unless the masters put up the fans, they would not be put up at all; and when they are put up surely a man that is sharp enough to look after the men paying their rents, and is in the hulls many times a day, could see that the fans were in use, and that the men were not destroying themselves. I have been shown how the fan can be applied to the racing of the stone, and I believe it might be adopted to a considerable extent. If the workmen were to cover their mouths with a handkerchief, I believe that much of the evils arising from the process of racing the stone would be done away with. I am glad to see Mr. Wilson here, and to have heard him take part in this discussion. I am sure that in the facts he stated there was not the slightest exaggeration. But Mr. Wilson is not even an average specimen of the class of grinders; he is the exception, and not the rule. He was fortunate in being apprenticed to a master who did not beat him, and who gave him sufficient food, and being an intelligent and steady young man he has educated himself at the People's College, with the result that you have seen from the manner in which he has addressed us to-day. As I have said, he is not a fair specimen of what the grinding class of workmen are in Sheffield. Most boys are sent to the razor and scissor grinding at a very early age. They are quite uneducated, their parents have been uneducated before them, and the children that grow up are just the type of those that have passed away. The evidence taken by Mr. White for the Children's Employment Commission, shows an amount of ignorance, moral and religious, that is fearful to contemplate; and if the grinders had only had black skins, and lived two or three thousand miles away, we would have had all kinds of philanthropic movements on their behalf in operation years ago. I do trust that the result of this meeting, and the result of our discussion here, will be to direct public attention to the subject, and I believe that the philanthropy of the manufacturers and merchants of Sheffield will not allow that class of our community to remain much longer in their present condition.

CONTAGIOUS DISEASES.

"What are the best means of preventing the spread of Conta gious Diseases?"

Dr. Lankester opened the discussion with a resumé of that portion of his address which treats of contagious diseases. The papers of Dr. Milroy, Mr. Jackson, and Mr. O'Callaghan, printed at pp. 403, 413, 415, were also read under this question.

DISCUSSION.

Mr. PHILIP HOLLAND: In the first place I must take exception to the theory insisted on by Dr. Lankester in regard to all zymotic diseases being contagious. I hold that this is not the case-that the rise and spread of these