Senator THYE. So that when the occupants of the condemned buildings are moved into the new building, that would first give me the information that you are through using the old buildings that are condemned; but you propose to continue maintaining the old buildings with the anticipation that when your load increases you may have to use the old buildings while you are erecting a new unit.

General HAISLIP. That is right.

REACTIVATION OF OLD BUILDINGS

Senator THYE. When do you anticipate that you will have to reactivate the old buildings? Is it in 1955 or in 1956?

General HAISLIP. No, sir; it might be several years later. Senator, we have a waiting list of around 230 men. We will make a net gain in capacity of 318 in the new domiciliary building, and 71 in the hospital, so we will have a net increase in capacity of 389.

So we will exhaust our waiting list and we will have from 150 to 200 additional vacancies for additional applicants.

So we ought to be able for some time, 1 year, 2 years, or maybe 3 years, to take care under better living conditions of the people who come in during that time.

Then, at the end of that time, we should start building a new building.

Senator THYE. You think that is when you should start? But in the meantime you are going to maintain those old buildings?

General HAISLIP. We are going to lock them up and put one man to live in each one and watch it.

Senator THYE. What do you anticipate the expenses of the maintenance of those buildings will be?

General HAISLIP. Very little. We won't do any interior painting. Colonel HARROLD. The maintenance of those buildings will be the minimum. In other words, there will be a minimum amount of heat turned on during the cold weather. I would say the minimum amount for each of those two buildings would be three to five hundred dollars

a year.

Senator THYE. Three to five hundred dollars to heat them?

Colonel HARROLD. Not only to heat them, but to maintain the electrical and other utilities in the buildings and certain painting of the exterior to prevent deterioration.

Senator THYE. And provide a watchman?

Colonel HARROLD. The watchman is a member of the home. He sleeps there as though he would sleep in any other barracks.

There will be no maintenance unless pipes break or something like that.

Senator THYE. In the event 3 or 4 years from now you may have again two or three hundred additional members, you may get it in the next year, you may have to reactivate 50 beds in there?

Colonel HARROLD. Until such times as we can provide additional facilities.

Senator THYE. You will be able to do that?

Colonel HARROLD. Right; yes, sir.

Senator THYE. Thank you. That is the information I was seeking. Senator Hayden, Senator Knowland called last evening and said

he would have to be away this morning and therefore I am in the capacity of chairman here this morning. I am glad to see you here with me.

PRESENT AREA OF HOME

Senator HAYDEN. I want to inquire about how large an area the Soldiers' Home grounds have been reduced by the disposal of the dairy herd and the construction going on out there.

General HAISLIP. 156 acres.

Senator HAYDEN. The toal area was how much?

General HAISLIP. The total area was about 472 acres. That is what we had before anything was given away.

Senator HAYDEN. Was that all acquired shortly after the Mexican War?

General HAISLIP. Yes, sir. Originally the first purchases were made in 1851. Then from time to time additional small tracts were added.

Senator HAYDEN. I heard a story once that because of a tax upon American soldiers by the citizens of Pueblo, Mexico, during the Mexican War, that General Scott levied a fine on the city and that money was sent up here and somebody raised the question as to what authority the American General had to fine a foreign city.

The money remained some time and finally that was the nucleus of funds that were used to purchase the ground.

General HAISLIP. Yes, sir. It was a little stronger than that, Senator. General Scott came back determined to open this home and he did open it with this money and then Congress got interested in it and finally gave him authority to use the money for that purpose.

Senator THYE. The gentleman may have had that in mind when he imposed the fine.

Senator HAYDEN. In any event, it was a considerable tract of ground, I assume, acquired at a low cost per acre at that time.

General HAISLIP. The tracts were pretty well exhausted farms; yes, sir. Part of it was the old Riggs tract, and then the old Corcoran tract. They were two of the original tracts. Those families sold them to the home at a reduced price with the understanding that they would be used in perpetuity for the Soldiers' Home and if that use were ever changed the land would revert to the former owners' estates.

AREA HELD BY OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

Senator HAYDEN. Who has the title to the 150 acres that have been detached from the original area?

General HAISLIP. We turned over 156 acres to the General Services Administration in accordance with law. The use they propose for that acreage was to build the District of Columbia Medical Center in one part of it, the Veterans Hospital in another part, and the third part was to be used to build a Veterans' Administration headquarters to move it out of the center of town.

In addition to that, as a matter of recognizing our community responsibility, we gave to the District of Columbia 7 acres for a rightof-way from North Capital Street to go right squarely through the grounds.

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In addition to that, we gave the District a wedge of 12 acres to extend Harewood Road. That work has been completed. We are proposing also to give another small area at the northern end of the road, to permit the widening there.

Senator HAYDEN. All of that is done in order to improve the flow of traffic?

General HAISLIP. Yes, sir. The home has always accepted its community responsibility and has given that land to the District without reimbursement, as provided by Public Law 143, 72d Congress, approved May 20, 1932.

Senator HAYDEN. How far have they gotten along with the carrying out of these plans for these two hospitals?

DISTRICT MEDICAL CENTER

General HAISLIP. With regard to the District Medical Center, for the past month contractors have been working on the basic utilities, cutting roads, laying sewers and waterlines, et cetera, in the tract in preparation for the construction of the buildings.

Senator HAYDEN. Now, that medical center will take care of how many people, hospitalize how many people?

General HAISLIP. I am not sure. It is a District project. It is to absorb three hospitals in the District now.

Senator HAYDEN. Three hospitals now maintained by the District? General HAISLIP. Yes, sir; they will move out there and form one center. The lands they will give up I think will go back on the tax roll and will be disposed of.

Senator THYE. Who has the authority for authorizing the transfer? Is that a question that will have to come to Congress?

General HAISLIP. No, sir; it is a question of law. We transferred it under Public Law 152 of the 81st Congress, which authorized the General Services Administration to handle Federal property and prescribed that whenever any Government department had any land or property in excess of its needs, it would turn it over to the General Services Administration and be paid a fair value for the property. Senator HAYDEN. I still have a sentimental view that you needed that magnificent herd of milk cows.

General HAISLIP. I am afraid it cost us $100,000 a year to keep it, Senator.

Senator HAYDEN. You could buy the milk cheaper?

General HAISLIP. Yes, sir; and it was pretty hard to justify a dairy herd right in the middle of Washington.

PROPOSED VA HOSPITAL

Senator HAYDEN. Now, what is the Veterans' Administration doing?

General HAISLIP. I don't know. We have turned the land over to the General Services Administration and it has title to it.

Senator HAYDEN. Has the Veterans' Administration taken any steps to erect a large hospital there?

General HAISLIP. No, sir. It is a very controversial question as to whether they are going to build a hospital. You remember the Nevius

tract was condemned and purchased for the hospital across the river from the Memorial Bridge, I think that was given up.

Then they had the idea of building it on the southern part of our grounds, but as I understand it, it is still a matter of contention and I don't think the Congress has ever authorized its being built or appropriated the money for it.

Senator HAYDEN. What is the status of the building for the headquarters of the Veterans' Administration, the third area?

General HAISLIP. I have not heard any discussion about that since the original agreement to turn the land over for that purpose.

Senator HAYDEN. What it amounts to, then, is that so far as the combined hospital of the District, that is a goal, the remainder of the land is being held by the General Services Administration for these purposes?

General HAISLIP. So far as we know, it is just being held. We have no title to it any more.

Senator HAYDEN. My concern would be that somebody will not come along and say this would make a fine subdivision and vote it for residential and something else.

It ought to be maintained for public use such as has been suggested, as general headquarters of the Veterans' Administration and a hospital, something of that kind. It ought not to become private property and be cut up in subdivisions for residential purposes in Washington. I would object to that.

General HAISLIP. I would, too, but as I recall the law, the General Services Administration canvasses all other Government departments when it gets a piece of property as to whether it is needed in the Government and if it is not, I believe they have general authority under the law to sell it.

Senator HAYDEN. I am quite sure that so far as sentiment in Congress is concerned, that at the time this matter was talked about, your agreeing that you did not need that land, that it was understood it was to go for public purposes, and not for private residential use.

COMPENSATION FOR LAND

Senator THYE. Now at the time you disposed of 156 acres, did you get compensated for the land?

General HAISLIP. We are still conferring on the matter of compensation. Several years ago, $500,000 was deposited in the Treasury to an erroneous account.

Senator THYE. What do you mean by an erroneous account?

General HAISLIP. The General Services Administration thought they were crediting it to our trust fund, but it did not show up and about a year ago they discovered that and then had it changed and credited to our fund.

We suddenly found $500,000 to our credit we could not account for. So when we investigated it we found out they had paid us for the center tract on which it was proposed to build a veterans' hospital. Senator THYE. How many acres were involved in the center tract? General HAISLIP. There were 421/2 acres. They paid us at the rate of $12,000 an acre. We immediately questioned that valuation as it did not seem high enough.

After several conferences, the General Services Administration agreed to let us have all their documents on the appraisal and the Chief of Enginers let us use his appraisal experts to study them to determine whether $12,000 was a proper appraisal.

We have been working back and forth trying to settle this thing ever since.

At the present time the last papers are in the hands of the Chief of Engineers and he is again studying them to see if we can agree. We think that $12,000 is low.

The appraisers of the Chief of Engineers think so, too.

I might say that the General Services Administration is entirely objective in the matter. They are willing to pay us whatever is agreed on as a fair price.

The matter is still in controversy and we hope to settle it very

soon.

Senator THYE. Where does General Services get their money to compensate you unless they dispose of that property?

General HAISLIP. They apparently have funds for that purpose. They have tried to pay us for the Medical Center, 6312 acres, at the same rate, and we have declined to accept it pending a settlement of the controversy.

That money has come out of the appropriations made by the Congress to begin that medical center.

Senator THYE. Now, are you going to possess the medical center after it is constructed? That is not your medical center?

General HAISLIP. No, sir; that is the District of Columbia Medical Center.

Senator THYE. The medical center is not yours; that is entirely a different transaction?

General HAISLIP. Entirely different. In fact, everything in that whole 156 acres is entirely separate from us.

Senator THYE. In other words, the General Services Administration will dispose of that and it will be up on the basis of competitive bids, or on the basis of the closest appraisal.

General HAISLIP. I am sure I don't know. But according to law they are to pay us a fair value for the land and that is what has been in controversy now-what is fair value?

I think under the law any department of the Government which accepts part of this land is supposed to pay a fair value for it.

Senator HAYDEN. The District has accepted one tract of how many acres?

General HAISLIP. We gave the District 634 acres for the extension of North Capitol Street and 122 acres for further extension of that street or a total of 1914 acres.

PAYMENT FOR HOSPITAL SITE

Senator HAYDEN. That was given. But where they are going to take the 3 old District hospitals and consolidate them in 1 new hospital, that, then, you are to be paid for? That land where the consolidated District hospital is to be located you are going to be paid for? General HAISLIP. Yes, sir; and that will be paid for out of appro