educational opportunity, inspiration and contact into the lives of the workers.

Mr. Lincoln realized what we realize here to-day, and I do not doubt you may have those same theories presented here that we have had back home.

He said there were two theories in handling that question, one the Mud-Sill theory. On that, he says as follows:

By the Mud-Sill theory, it is assumed that labor and education are incompatible, and any practical combination of them impossible. According to that theory, a blind horse upon a treadmill is a perfect illustration of what a laborer should be all the better for being blind, that he could not kick understandingly. According to that theory, the education of laborers is not only useless, but pernicious and dangerous. In fact, it is, in some sort, deemed a misfortune that laborers should have heads at all. Those same heads are regarded as explosive materials, only to be safely kept in damp places, as far as possible from that peculiar sort of fire which ignites them. A Yankee who could invent a stronghanded man, without a head, would receive the everlasting gratitude of the Mud-Sill advocates.

But free labor says, "No." Free labor argues that as the Author of Man makes every individual with one head and one pair of hands, it was probably intended that head and hands should cooperate as friends, and that that particular head should direct and control that particular pair of hands. As each man has one mouth to be fed, and one pair of hands to furnish food, it was probably intended that that particular pair of hands should feed that particular mouth, that each head is the natural guardian, director, and protector of the hands and mouth inseparably connected with it; and that being so, every head should be cultivated and improved by whatever will add to its capacity for performing its charge. In one word, free labor insists on universal education. I suppose, however, I shall not be mistaken in assuming as a fact that the people of Wisconsin prefer free labor with its natural companion, education.

A problem springs from that, as he says, how can labor and education be satisfactorily combined? Your Federal board, our board back home, other boards similarly organized, not in any way to interfere or to dominate a school system, but organized only for one purpose, a great proclamation crew in the educational field, to pick up and do for those who have dropped out of the system, does such admirable work for those with whom they come in contact.

Our problems in force of numbers are larger than the problems before those to whom you would delegate this responsibility, if these bills prevail. It is large and it is important and we have only scratched the surface, gentlemen, in the solution of it.

If America is to rise to economic importance, it is necessary that the workers of this country-and if we are going to reach them, it means the adolescent workers of this country-receive educationaĺ opportunity, inspiration and contact during the formative years of their character, and that is, broadly speaking, between fourteen and eighteen years of age.

In the State of Wisconsin two-thirds of the children are out of school instead of in school. In the Nation, I think it would be perhaps somewhat larger.

You know that the question you are discussing to-day, or considering to-day, whichever way you may decide it, I believe is one of the most important questions confronting the American people, and in your final analysis I hope that you will safeguard the matter so that the workers of this country who can only attend school parttime have the same attention given to them, absolutely the same attention, that is given to those who are preparing to become workers and devoting all of their time to school.

Any system that looks well to this kind of education adds to the economic wealth of our country. As Roger Babson has said in his book, The Future Working Classes, the taxation wisely spent on education is the only taxation that brings back direct economic return to the investor. It is in the nature of an investment.

I hope that Congress when it finally determines a policy will make an investment, and I believe that the investment that is now made in the Federal Board is a wise investment, because it upgrades the mass of the American people.

They are out of school very largely, and that agency if it is important and is doing the work well, should not be lightly set aside unless you are assured fundamentally that these problems are not going to be neglected in any consolidation of departments.

I have here, and I am going to leave with you, an argument by Mr. Charles E. Whelan, a national lecturer for the Modern Woodmen of America, when this same question was up for general discussion, on the extent to which we should go in Wisconsin.

Mr. Whelan wrote a short monograph, writing a thesis and a plea for the working children of America.

We do not need to argue before this committee, or any intelligent body, the need of the children in the public schools. You and I send our children to the public schools. We send them through the grades and we send them to the high schools. We would fight if any one for one moment would take away those privileges from your child or mine. We send them on to the technical schools and the university, all of which, I believe, should be subsidized as they are. But it is not necessary to argue that to you.

But we have neglected altogether too long the great problem of the workers of America, and particularly the child workers. So Mr. Whelan wrote a brief in behalf of the child workers of America as a plea for an agency to carry on that work.

The Modern Woodmen thought so well of it that they had 15,000 copies printed and distributed to all the camps in America, and another edition is now in preparation.

The executive board assured me that they were going to get behind that movement for "A chance for every child."

It is futile to say you have a chance, if the child can not go, and that period of childhood passes but once.

I thank you.

Mr. WRIGHT. The next statement will be by Mr. Frank C. Page, manager of the resolutions and referendum department, United States Chamber of Commerce.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRANK C. PAGE, MANAGER RESOLUTIONS AND REFERENDUM DEPARTMENT, UNITED STATES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

Mr. PAGE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I have already appeared in behalf of the chamber of commerce, and made its position clear in opposition to the Sterling-Reed bill, the establishment of a department of education.

This particular phase of the hearing to-day regarding vocational education is covered by an entirely separate referendum of the Chamber of Commerce of the United States. It was referendum No. 14, taken in 1916.

The results of this referendum were found or had before the establishment of the Vocational Educational Board. The Vocational Educational Board has carried out in its organization and in its work the program and policy and set-up as favored by the chamber of commerce at that time.

There has at no time since then been any question arising in the chamber of commerce among our members to intimate that anyone would wish any change in the subject.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the vote on that?

Mr. PAGE. I have that here, Mr. Chairman. The four questions were as follows:

1. The committee recommends liberal Federal appropriations for promotion of vocational education in the United States.

The vote on that was 831 votes in favor and 109 against.

2. The committee recommends that Federal appropriations should be allotted among the States upon a uniform basis and should bear a uniform relation to appropriations made by the States for like purposes.

The vote on that question was 828 votes in favor and 95 votes against.

3. The committee recommends the creation of a Federal board to be representative of the interests vitally concerned and to be compensated sufficiently to command great ability.

The vote on that question was 788 votes in favor and 143 votes against.

4. The committee recommends that the Federal board should be required to appoint advisory committees of five members each, representing industry, commerce, labor, agriculture, home making, and general or vocational education.

The vote on that was 783 votes in favor and 136 votes against. Of course, the set-up of the board does not exactly line up with the four recommendations, but the representation is there on the board. The chamber is opposed to a department of education with a secretary in the Cabinet and to the appropriation of money for general education on an equal basis with the States.

It opposes any move to place this Federal vocational training under the Bureau of Education.

It believes, and it is borne out by this referendum, that vocational education is important enough to stand as a separate entity by itself. If there was a department of education and the question came up whether the vocational board should be under the Department of Education, to get a position on the question, the chamber would either have to come back to its membership at an annual meeting, or, through a referendum, have the board of directors interpret the application of whether a separate vocational board would be equivalent to a separate bureau in a department.

But there is no question that the chamber in its attitude as expressed here would oppose placing this organization under the Bureau of Education, it being too important to be placed as a subsidiary organization to that.

I ask leave to put the first page of this vote in the record as it is. The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

REFERENDUM No. 14

VOCATIONAL EDUCATION

At the first annual meeting, in January, 1913, resolutions were adopted by the national chamber indorsing Federal aid and encouragement in the establishment of vocational schools of manufacture, commerce, agriculture and home economics. The resolutions also indorsed the Page bill in its essential provisions and urged its enactment.

On January 18, 1916, the committee on education submitted a report regarding national aid for vocational education in the States. This report was presented at the fourth annual meeting and resolutions were adopted providing that the subject be submitted to referendum. This was done on April 1, 1916.

In accordance with the vote, the chamber is committed to all of the questions. submitted, in that more than one-third of the voting strength of the chamber was recorded, and more than two-thirds of the vote thus cast, representing more than 20 States, was recorded in favor of each of the proposals.

Mr. HOLADAY. I would like to have you explain how your referendum vote is taken.

Mr. PAGE. The referendum vote is taken in this way: The committee, made up of as many representatives, or leading men, in as many different lines as are interested in a particular subject, is asked to make a complete study of the subject. They make a complete study and a report to the chamber. It is very exhaustive.

I have here the study and the report on education, in which you can see the minority and the majority report of the two committees. That report is submitted to the board of directors during a year, or perhaps submitted to the annual meeting. If it comes at that time, and if the board of directors consider the subject timely in importance, national in scope of national interest, they make no opinion on the report, but if it meets with those three qualifications, they may vote to have it sent to referendum.

The referendum report is then made up, divided between the arguments on the affirmative and the arguments on the negative, which are put side by side on the same page, or on facing pages. The questions are framed either "The committee recommends as a straight question.

or

Each chamber of commerce or trade association-there are 1,300 of them is requested to vote on each separate question. The number of votes that they have are controlled as follows: Each member of the chamber with a membership of 25 has 1 vote. For each additional 250 members it has 1 additional vote, up to a total of 10 votes. No organization can have more than 10 votes.

When I appeared before, the chairman asked me to name the largest membership. The Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce has the largest membership, with something over 7,000. It has 10 votes. Mr. HOLADAY. Taking Los Angeles as an example, suppose this ballot reaches them-how do they act on it?

Mr. PAGE. There are three methods of taking a vote in the local chamber. One is a subreferendum to its own members. That is done with a good many trade associations that have members scattered through the country. It is not done so much by the larger chambers of commerce. It is done by the smaller chambers of commerce and a good many trade organizations.

The second is to set up a special committee to study this subject and to report to the board of directors of the local chamber their recommendations.