Dr. DUNIWAY. Yes, sir; that is what we find in States all the time. Now, gentlemen, I will not trespass further upon your time. The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, we are very much obliged to you for your interesting statement. The CHAIRMAN. President Thompson, of the University of Ohio, is the next speaker. Doctor, it is a little late, perhaps, but at the same time if you feel as though you could make your address at this late hour we would be very glad to hear you. STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM O. THOMPSON, PRESIDENT OF THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY, COLUMBUS, OHIO. Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am unwilling to say at this hour what I would like to say if I had the time and you had the patience to listen to me. The fundamental idea in this question is to get the Nation to put a premium upon a system of public education. We have started with a system of public schools. We have found it necessary to develop here at Washington a large number of scientific activities, because of the needs of the Government for scientific work. In keeping up with the needs of the Government we have developed what will become the greatest laboratory in the country. Let me call attention to the fact that we now have a nation-wide system of education in the form of colleges of agriculture and mechanic arts and of agricultural experiment stations. We have in a few of the States the beginning of research work in engineering through the establishment of engineering experiment stations. These need to be supplemented by the organization of the Government's activities in the interest of advanced research. There is no place where to-day a student may go for advanced research in agriculture except in the United States Department of Agriculture, and even this opportunity is not organized for this purpose. A few colleges and universities are offering facilities for some advanced work in these fields but their facilities are somewhat limited and probably will not be able to accomplish satisfactorily the purposes in view. Now, it is a fundamental principle recognized in this country that the promotion of applied science is conditioned upon continual research upon the scientific and economic problems that lie at the basis of the permanent prosperity of our great country. There are two points of view from which this can be studied. The first is the public or national point of view and the other is the educational or college point of view. It has been said here that our great universities like Harvard, Yale, Columbia, and others are national in scope. That in a sense is true. Harvard is not a private institution; it is a public institution for all time. It has a national point of view, but it has not the same point of view that a national university would have. The establishment of a national university would enable people to do things here a little better than they could be done elsewhere. Of course, there are things that can be done better to-day in Harvard than anywhere else. There are also some things which can be done better here than at Harvard. There is no university to-day that takes a national point of view such as could be taken by a national university, and the attempt to fuse those two ideas is unfortunate, to say the least. Now, in reference to the article by Prof. Burgess in opposition to a national university, I have time only to say that the theory or fear that such a university would be subject to political influences of such destructive character as to render the institution useless or ridiculous is an indictment of the competency of American_citizenship. We had that theory about the Interstate Commerce Commission when it was at first proposed, but I think we are coming to realize to-day that the Interstate Commerce Commission is a thoroughly trustworthy servant. We had that theory about our banking system, and the bankers said that great calamities would befall the country if certain banking laws were enacted. That has proved to be a fallacy. I happened to speak on that subject at one time and I said then that I believed that the Presidents of the United States, including the present one, were men that would try to meet any fiscal situation fairly and honestly; that the Federal Reserve Board could take the national point of view and it would not destroy, the banks, but look to the public welfare rather than to private interests. Now, I believe that the President of the United States will look at the situation in a large-minded way and with a single eye to the interests of the public. I do not believe that any banker will suffer from any of these governmental activities. From that point of view of public service, we believe that the millions invested right here in Washington to-day could be organized into a public institution for scientific research. Might I say that I argued strongly for this nondegree conferring university because there are facilities in Washington that can be secured nowhere else. A short time ago a graduate student enrolled in a State university came here to Washington at the request of the Geological Survey and is now spending some time doing work here because it could be done better in Washington than anywhere else in the world. Now, I do not want the national university here in Washington to be merely a friend of the friendless, but I want it to help those who are desirous of being perfected in research work in the promotion of science, in order that the results of their investigations may be put at the command of all the universities of the country. In other words, I would have it so that if we wanted something done in a branch of science we could go to a State university or other university and bring a professor distinguished in that department of science here for a semester or a year and utilize his abilities for aiding the choice and selected gradute students who would benefit by his directions and leadership. For instance, take the problem of nutrition; that could be worked out in the Department of Agriculture; that is the proper place for research work along that line. Now, so far as the questions of international law and diplomacy are concerned, there is no place like Washington where those subjects can be studied. The libraries at our leading universities vary from 100,000 to 250,000, but that is not comparable to what must be here at Washington and available for a national university. Therefore, gentlemen, I insist that this theory of a national university be carried out on a large scale. Of course, we do not want a university here which will be a competitor with three or four universities in the country. We would have it the crowning university 28865 No. 4-14- -5 of all the other universities, and a cooperating element with them, not a competing or a paralyzing element, but a supplementary institution. This national university would bring together our educational forces of the country in such a manner as could never be accomplished in any other way. Harvard and Princeton are national universities in a sense, and so are Columbia and Yale, but none of them would pretend to call itself a national university in the sense this bill contemplates. The State universities of this country would have a national pride in a national university established at the seat of Government in Washington. Now, as the hour is late I shall not go into the details of this bill, but will pass briefly over what I have to say. I only want to put before you one great issue: That we are here to make a plea that this nation shall not spare itself one item of cost in the establishment of this great central institution. Gentlemen, the cost is trivial. Let us not think of the cost. This is an investment: it is an economic use of public resources. Another thing to be remembered is this fact: That education has paid for itself ten thousand times over in this country. I know the cost of it and the results. The alumni of our universities in this country are a justification of our system of education, and the fact that Harvard is receiving money from her alumni is a recognition of the spirit of the people with regard to universities of that kind. Gentlemen, if there are hundreds of men engaged in scientific work in Washington at Government expense, just consider that the Government is investing in men who are developing the resources of the country and enabling the country to maintain its power in perpetuity. And so our great library with its splendid building and volumes that cost hundreds of thousand of dollars is simply the Government capital invested in such a way that the Congressmen and the people of this country are getting their annual return in an efficient Government. And so educated men are the best evidence of the value of education. If we are not, the shame is ours and not the country's. I recognize that the proposed national university would be interested both in the highest education of men, and in the most complete development of science. Suppose it cost us $10,000,000 or $15,000,000 a year, would the country object to it? Take the National Congress. When it first got to be a billion dollar Congress the Speaker of the House, the late Hon. Thomas B. Reed said, "This is a billion dollar country." No further reply was needed to the criticism. Now, we are better people with a billion dollar country to-day than we were when we had our little trouble with Great Britain, a handful of 3,000,000 people in a struggle for liberty. The country is growing and its resources are being rapidly developed, and you will have to have a bigger budget because you will have a bigger country. If this proposition were to cost you $25,000,000 a year you could afford that much, because you would receive benefits from it a thousand fold. Mr. PLATT. What is your object in saying that? Dr. THOMPSON. I mean to say, that educational institutions are worth all they cost and more. I would rather give $50,000,000 for constructing a university than $2,000,000 for destructive purposes. The people of this country will be perfectly satisfied with an investment that will aid in constructing a more efficient Government. When you talk about the cost of an educational institution I am ashamed to make an answer to it because we can not measure the value of men or of the advancement of science—either pure or applied-in terms of money. Civilization as represented in her educated men and the progress of learning needs no justification. Mr. FESS. That is a matter that will have to be raised and overcome by Congress. Mr. PLATT. You know that Congress yesterday overruled this committee in the matter of a certain bill which did not appropriate one cent, on the ground that it might tend to wipe out literacy in the future. I Dr. THOMPSON. Yes; Congress occasionally does some strange things. There are some people who put their fears above their hopes. If you gentlemen live on your fears I have no respect for you, but if you live on your hopes you will be able to accomplish great things and will deserve the earnest appreciation of all far-seeing men. am ashamed to hear men speak in an apologetic way about the cost of such a magnificent proposition as this. We respect a Congress that does a thing that they believe to be right and the American people will pay the bill if they think it is worth while. The educational interests of this country have done a great deal to dispel illiteracy and they will do more if they get the chance. It is this great opportunity for trying out achievements of science that will be of permanent benefit to humanity. We have talked about a national university for some years, and we believe in it as much as we believe in anything. I offer no criticism upon people for being economical in the sense that they want to get their money's worth for what they spend, but if economy means being unwilling to invest in the fundamental interests of the Nation your children will be ashamed of you. In 1862, in President Lincoln's day, there was established the system of colleges of agriculture and the mechanic arts, and 25 years later the experiment stations. There has been nothing more grateful to the American people to-day than that investment for the benefit of the American industries of agriculture and engineering. If Congress will organize the great resources of the country in the interest of all the people and in the interest of humanity, you will never be criticized for money well expended. [Applause.] The CHAIRMAN. These hearings are so interesting that I feel that we could very well remain here until sunup to-morrow morning. I wish to say this: That I had hoped that Chancellor Barry, of the University of Georgia, would be here this evening. He expected to be here and I regret exceedingly that he is not with us to-night, because he is one of the greatest educators this country has ever known, and he is chancellor of one of the greatest State universities within the broad limits of this land. I have in my hand a letter which at the proper time I will read to the committee. (Thereupon, at 11.10 p. m., the committee adjourned until to morrow morning, Saturday, February 28, at 10.30 o'clock.) |