taken out of the record. But if we make the registration of voters final, would it not be necessary that we should amend the constitution of the registration court? Is it not necessary instead of having, not merely those 75 barristers, as the Noble Lord stated, but those 150 revising barristers which we have at present to have a limited number of gentlemen with competent salaries, competent to try such cases, and upon whose decision the public would place confidence? I take these measures as an example, with a view to show how they are all necessarily connected together; and how impossible it is, if we take them separately, to deal justly with the laws relating to the constitution of the representative system. Therefore it is that I say, with the present state of dissatisfaction among the people, that if the Government is really at the head of the Liberal party, they are bound to do that which the Liberal party call upon them to do that is, to give notice of their intention to propose a Bill for amending the Reform Act, which Bill shall embrace all the objects which I have alluded to, and many others to which I have not yet alluded. If they will do that, instead of the Liberal party of the country being depressed and discouraged in spirit, which they now are, the Government will raise their spirits and give courage to the Reform party throughout the United Kingdom; and instead of our being almost afraid to meet a general election, and anticipating discomfiture from so meeting the constituency of the country as it now stands, we would, if spirit and courage were given to us by such an announcement, be the foremost, and as ready as nay, more ready than the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, to meet a general election. But if the matter remain as it now is, if the constituency be left in its present state, then I will say that I anticipate discomfiture for the Liberal party at the next general election; and not only that, but I do believe that at any future general election the Liberal party may expect that their situation will be worse than it now is.

left in such a position that, whenever a general election is to be met, they shall find their situation growing worse and worse. Therefore, I say, that if the Government, whom the Liberal party consent to place at their head, will not take upon itself to place the Liberal party in that position, which, they contend, from their numbers, their wealth, and their influence, they have a right to hold, then, the Liberal party must act, independently of the Government, for themselves. The division on the ballot will show what their strength is. They must, I say, act for themselves, and throw themselves upon the country for support, and take those measures which they think necessary, by means without and means within this House, for giving supremacy to their opinions. I would, then, urge, that if there were the smallest encouragement on the part of the Government to lead us to believe that they would take the amendment of the Reform Act under their patronage, there would be the greatest forbearance shown by the Liberal party, both in the House and out of it. Sir, the Liberal party in the House would be glad to leave the subject in the hands of the Government, if the Government would take it into their hands; if measures like that proposed by the Honourable Baronet in the motion now before the House if measures which the Noble Lord admits to be of a moderate character, like this-were only sure to be fairly considered by the Government, for I would be satisfied with that. I say that, because I, for one, fully admit the force of the argument of the Noble Lord, that he has not duly considered all the bearings of the measure, that he must have recourse to the statistics of representation to see the effects of the measure;-that very circumstance is a fair argument for saying that the Government will take the suggestions into consideration, and will deliberate whether or not it be fit that they should introduce a Bill for the amendment of the Reform Act; and it might be an argument why the Honourable Baronet should not press the present motion to a division. If I interpret the words of the Noble Lord aright, he, individually, approves of the present motion, but says that the Government cannot consent to it. I am glad that, so far as his statement goes, the Noble Lord considers this to be a reasonable proposition to be made. What course the Honourable Baronet will take upon this occasion, I do not know; but I think that it is a very fit occasion for the members of the Liberal party to give vent to their opinions; and after he has heard them, the Honourable Baronet will

be prepared to state what course he means to take with respect to this measure, whether he will divide the House upon it, or whether he will leave it for the consideration of her Majesty's Government? For my own part, I do not ask for any determination on the part of the Government, or for any immediate decision, either upon this or upon any other question, as to the representation of the people; but if Government will agree to take into their consideration the amendment of the Reform Act, in such parts as they think require amendment, I would recommend my Honourable Friend to forbear from pressing a measure of this kind in the present Session, and to await the production of a Bill which I shall be glad to hear announced by her Majesty's Government.

SIR ROBERT PEEL. - Sir, I really cannot concur with the Honourable Gentleman the Member for Bridport, that the speech of the Noble Lord the Secretar of State for the Home Department was obscure and equivocal. I did distinctly understand the Noble Lord to say that, in certain respects, he would admit alterations in what is called the Reform Act, and the Noble Lord did distinctly define what was to be their extent. He left nothing vague or unexplicit on that head. With regard to that definition, the Noble Lord stated that he would agree to an important alteration with respect to the law of registration: he insisted that 75 barristers were much too many; that the several revision courts ought to be limited to one of a much more permanent character; and that the decisions of the barristers ought to admit of appeal to that court. Then, again, as to the main provisions of the Act, the Noble Lord declared that he was in favour of a relaxation of the taxpaying clauses; that with respect to the payment of the poor-rates, additional time should be granted; and with respect to the payment of the assessed taxes, -having the security of the payment of the poor-rates, they ought not to persist in requiring payment of those taxes. Listening, as I have been, to the Noble Lord, I did not put that construction on his speech which has been put by the Honourable Gentleman. It is, I think, impossible to charge the Noble Lord with being obscure or unexplicit. I took down the Noble Lord's words: the Noble Lord stated that the Honourable Baronet's present proposal was fairly entitled to be the subject of consideration, that proposal being to give to the 107. householders in counties, not residing within boroughs, the right

of voting for counties; but the Noble Lord stated, also, that it was not a subject to which, either on his own part, or on the part of the Government, he could give any concurrence: and he said, further, that he could neither give such concurrence at the present moment, nor hold out to the Honourable Gentleman any expectation of such concurrence for the future. And if that is a fair interpretation of what the Noble Lord stated, how is it possible for the Honourable Member for Bridport to charge the Noble Lord with being vague or inexplicit? I have no doubt, from what the Noble Lord stated with respect to the merits of the present measure, that he means to resist this motion; but whether I shall or shall not have the satisfaction of voting with the Noble Lord, or whatever may be the Noble Lord's intention, it is my meaning, even if I stand alone, to resist the proposal of the Honourable Gentleman, and to offer to it every opposition in my power.

Now, I look at the arguments which have been used in support of the present motion. It is said that the 107. householders, living out of boroughs, are as respectable, probably, and as well entitled to vote for the counties, as the 107, householders living within boroughs; but this was not a principle adopted by the Reform Bill; and if we now adopt this proposition, we should be admitting an indefinite number of voters in the counties, to the entire destruction of the finality of the Reform Act. If it were a good principle, that, because 107. householders are entitled to vote in boroughs, therefore 107. householders, not living in boroughs, ought to vote for counties, then it follows, as a matter of course, that 40s. freeholders in boroughs, having now a right to vote for the counties, ought to vote for the boroughs; that there ought not to be any distinction between the rights of voting; and, in fact, that there should be a complete uniformity in those rights. The Noble Lord thought that the introduction of the 507. clause made a difference. If there was any difference, it was open for the Government to reject the 5071. clause; but I do not see that the admission of the 507. clause made any difference; and even if it had made a difference, it ought to have been stated when the Reform Bill was under consideration. If the 107. householders were to be admitted to vote in counties, it would have been prudent to have stated so much at the time, and an arrangement should have been then made. We were told, at that time, that the measure of reform was most extensive; it was admitted that, in a country like this,

in which there were such complicated | relations of society, to make an experiment with safety, we should make it so extensive as that it ought to satisfy the country. That is a good ground for resisting the motion of the Honourable Gentleman. Then, Sir, the Noble Lord described three classes of opinions which existed with respect to the Reform Act. First, there was his own opinion, which was in favour of an adherence to the general provisions of that Act, but admitting of alteration in its details; secondly, there were those who, like the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin, entirely distrusted the Reform Bill, as a failure, and wished for further changes in the representative system; and, thirdly, there were those who adhered to the letter of the Reform Act, but who wished to deprive the people of their legitimate rights under that Act, and to prevent their exercise, by intimidation and corruption. Now, I utterly disclaim belonging to any one of those classes; for while I adopt the spirit of the Reform Act, I do not wish to deprive the people of their rights under it; and I abominate the depriving them of that right by any corruption or intimidation. There is, therefore, a fourth class of persons, who supported the Reform Act as a settlement of a great constitutional question,- as final as it could be, for it is impossible to make even the most final measure of legislation without incurring the chance of its requiring change at some time or other. This class accepted it in the spirit in which it was offered by Lord Grey and by Lord Althorp, and took it in that sense as final,-a class who wish it to be carried out in that spirit, and who detest any species of intimidation or of corruption which would prevent the exercise, by the people, of the right to which they are fairly entitled. It is because I consider the Reform Act as a great constitutional settlement of the electoral system, that I resist any inroad attempted upon it.

Sir, if you (Mr.Warburton) represent the Liberal party, I can tell you why you have lost the confidence of the country. If such are the principles on which you act, — if such is the advice you give,— that is the reason why you have lost the general confidence of the country. It is quite right in the Government to be explicit upon this point. If they mean to alter the Reform Act, they ought to come down and say it; but I protest against the new system of conducting the public affairs. The measures of the Government ought to be fully considered, both as to their principles, and in their details; but when they are ready, they ought to be submitted to Parliament. The executive Government ought to be responsible for the measures of legislation introduced, — throwing the future responsibility on the Legislature, either to adopt or to reject them. Such a system is not acted upon now; it is, now, the fashion not to legislate at present, but to give some assurance as to the future; and I can conceive nothing more calculated to prejudice the public interests, or to lower the character of the representative body with the public. It is calling upon the Parliament to be responsible for the acts of the Executive, and completely confounding the relations of the executive Government and of the representative body. Would the Honourable Member for Bridport be satisfied if the new Parliament, which is to be assembled, were not to meet till 1842? Would the Honourable Gentleman be satisfied with that? think he would. For any Gentleman more easily satisfied not with the smallest modicum of reform, but with a mere proposal which would enable him to make a better figure on the hustings than the Honourable Member for Bridport, I never saw. If, indeed, the Liberal party have lost the confidence of the country by giving such advice, let them repent them of their error; let them adopt an open and manly course of proceeding; and do not let them ask for any vague assurance of what would be proposed to be done at some future period. I can tell the Honourable Baronet that he would give no satisfaction by the present measure,— the extension of the 107. franchise: let them not flatter themselves that it would

and yet he is obliged, by the cheers that respond to my question, to admit that the grant of the 107. franchise was only to be the stepping-stone to some other measure. He asks her Majesty's Government to give an assurance upon the abstract merits of the present case, knowing well that the unenfranchised classes in the towns and in the boroughs would afterwards press with tenfold vigour their own claims. Have we not been told, and has it not been written, that the 107. householders are the very worst class of persons to whom the franchise could be conceded? And though the Honourable Baronet endeavours to conciliate them by giving them the new name of the shopocracy, and saying that to these would be added the medical gentlemen, and the gentlemen residing in villas, yet no union of the gentry, the medical men, and the shopocracy, would ever reconcile the unenfranchised classes. We have, then, the admission of the representative of the Liberal party in this House, -the declaration of the Honourable Member for Bridport, that this alteration would be of no value, except as the foundation of future measures. But, says the Honourable Gentleman, if you will not yield this measure, the Liberal party will appeal to the country in favour of those measures which they advocate. Why,-has not that appeal been made ?

[Cries of "Hear, hear!"]

On the question of the ballot there was no forbearance, nor on the question of the corn laws, nor on any of the questions of public interest have they ever forborne pressing their measures upon the country. The real fact is, that I have entertained a better opinion of the Liberal party than it appears they deserve, if the Honourable Gentleman is to be taken as their representative.

[Cries of "No, no!" from the Liberal Members.]

I had given them credit and still, notwithstanding the disclaimer, I must give them credit for not neglecting any fair and legitimate mode of giving full effect to their own opinions. Sir, this being my impression, I will not trouble the House with any further arguments upon this question. After the admission extorted from the Honourable Gentleman who has called for a declaration of the opinion of the Government, in order that he and some others may cut a better figure upon the hustings, I am satisfied that any dissatisfaction

which might exist because there was no further reform brought forward, would be only increased by any partial measure of legislation. In the fair spirit in which the Reform Act was offered by Lord Althorp and Lord Grey, I accepted it, and I wish it to be carried out in the same spirit. The Noble Lord calls for a discussion on the question of registration and of the rate-paying clauses. With respect to the last of these, I shall express no opinion; but I never stated anything with a deeper conviction of its truth, than I now state, that we should not advance the interests of the country so much by any new scheme of representation, as by a faithful and punctual discharge of the duties committed to us, and by showing our constituents and the country that we are fully qualified to discharge those duties.

Mr. D. W. HARVEY. - Sir, I entirely agree with the suggestion of the Honourable Member for Bridport, that it is desirable, upon the present occasion, that those Honourable Members who take a large and deep interest in the cause of parliamentary reform should embrace this very opportunity of expressing their candid and unrestrained sentiments. This is not only due to themselves, to their constituents, and to the country, but also to the Government. I confess that I do not enter into those feelings of surprise, or of disappointment, intimated by my Honourable Friend the Member for Bridport, at a speech containing declarations so clearly and so unequivocally made as were those of the Noble Lord. They entirely coincided with my expectations. It is true that, during the last month, I could scarcely meet a person who was, or wished to be, a politician, who had not some secret and undefined expectation that the Government would be prepared to outstrip the most liberal anticipations of their supporters; and who did not reprobate any doubts which were expressed that the Government was not prepared to make any considerable advances in the cause of what is called parliamentary reform. But, however strong those expectations may have been, and on whatever basis they may have been raised, I never looked for any other declaration than that which has been so clearly, so unequivocally, and, I will add, so manfully and so openly made by the Noble Lord. I am still eager for further and great reforms; and I will remain consistent_to the last as the advocate of them. however I may have been pleased to find that the Noble Lord went to no inconsiderable extent in his wishes to carry out

But

further the principles of the Reform Act, I own I should have regretted, after the Noble Lord's reiterated opinion, delivered in this House and recorded in his address to the electors of Stroud, if, for any party purposes, he had bent his opinions; or had endeavoured to countenance an idea that, to purchase a truce from hostility, he would make a partial change in his opinions. If, therefore, I vote for the motion of the Honourable Baronet, it is only for the purpose of showing that I am one of those who are anxious for further progress in the path of reform, however slow that progress may be. For myself, however, I think it is undesirable to be constantly dabbling in these small constitutional suggestions, and in this little ware of reform. I should be glad to see the Government giving a title to a Bill, and calling it "A Bill to reform the Reform Act:" I should be glad to see such a title, with the objects distinctly stated, and the details so considered that it might be, as far as it could be made so, both ample and final, But till this shall be done, I think it better that the time of the House should not be wasted, and that expectations should not be held out, to the real postponement of valuable measures of legislation, unless the Government are prepared to introduce a mea. sure such as that to which I have referred,

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a measure that will be satisfactory and agreeable to the wishes of the people. My Honourable Friend will allow me to say that I think he cannot excite in this country a feeling in favour of a restricted measure like the present. The Reformers, in all our towns, will not thank this House for a restrictive measure. No; their cry is, "You must largely extend the suffrage; you must limit the duration of Parliament; you must provide ample protection for the voter, whether it be by the ballot or by penalties against intimidation and corruption." I did hope that the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Tamworth would not have been content to declare in such strong and unambiguous terms his hostility to corruption, without announcing, at the same time, that he would give his succour to any plan for destroying those evils of which he complains. If the Right Honourable Baronet had done so, I should have been prepared to say that he was by far a better representative of a better system of government and reform than any to be found at present on the Treasury bench. I should then have inferred, from the hostility of the Right Honourable Baronet to the corruptions existing in our present system of elections, that he would be prepared to adopt even the ballot, if no better

plan could be proposed for putting a stop to them. But, Sir, as the Right Honourable Baronet has now spoken, it was mere declamation, and well calculated to secure or excite an impression that he is friendly to such a reform, while at the same time he left the House in so much doubt as to whether the corruption might not be as rife, and the intimidation as awful, as they have been on recent occasions. Sir, there is another point on which I am anxious to express an opinion. I am not one of those who consider that, without reform, this House is not capable of proceeding with objects of useful legislation,- quite otherwise; for though I am a decided advocate for such objects, yet I do believe that the House contains within itself the elements of sound legislation, I do not conceal my decided conviction, either here or elsewhere, that the people themselves - that is, the constituent body-have much to do, before they might or could be highly improved in their notions of their political obligations; because, though I am aware that there are some small places which ought not to send Members to this House, — and that there are temptations in those instances which make the voters often strike a balance between their personal and their political interests, temptations so powerful that they make an appeal to the moral sense too strong for their resistance, yet I do maintain that in all towns the constituency of which amounts to 1000, there is in that body an ample power, a numerical strength, sufficient to protect its own virtue, provided there be but the disposition. I could run over many constituencies that occur to my memory, but I will refer to one town which I had the honour to represent for many years. There are 1200 electors and upwards in the town of Colchester. Why is it that those electors, many of them opulent men, and all, perhaps, well to do, do not send Reformers to this House? Because those 1200 are not friends to Reform, but to Conservatism. Sir, it will not do to let constituencies run away with the idea that they have nothing to do, because this House- or rather some persons in this House-entertain large speculative views of reform; for, after all, those speculations lead to no praetical result, and nothing is done towards such a result, beyond the delivery of some needless speeches. But it is desirable and essentially necessary that some steps should be taken by which a Government should be formed which might conciliate and secure such a majority in this House as would be able to carry out useful measures. For my own part, I confess, I see but little difference

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