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Senator FERGUSON. May I interrupt? Would it be possible for the city to arrange through bond issues or some other way, to construct and complete this work?

Senator KNOWLAND. The mayor is here to testify at a later date. I think he could give you more direct information on that.

Senator MCCARTHY. Do you know offhand, Senator, what the estimated cost of completion is?

Senator KNOWLAND. I believe it is around $14,000,000-between 14 and 15 million dollars.

Senator THYE. Between 14 and 15 million dollars, the balance of cost?

Senator KNOWLAND. No; they have already expended over $10,000,000.

Senator THYE. You have already spent, or stated they have spent, about $10,000,000?

Senator KNOWLAND. That is correct. I think the Navy can give the best evidence on that.

Senator THYE. I thought you answered the Senator here that it would take about $14,000,000 more.

Senator KNOWLAND. No; not additional. That is over-all.
Senator THYE. That would be 4 or 5 million additional?

Senator KNOWLAND. I think so. They can give the best evidence on that. If, on the other hand, the Navy Department proceeds with the construction in conformity with its contract and expends the balance of the money necessary, the project will become a self-liquidating project and the Government's investment in San Diego, amounting to some $300,000,000, will be safeguarded.

This Nation has been generous with its wartime allies. In addition we have expended substantial sums of money in the postwar period even in some nations which have shown hostility toward us. It would hardly seem equitable that we should show no consideration to our own political subdivisions.

San Diego has been a war casualty. They have contributed greatly to the national defense program. The amount of water consumed by governmental agencies amounted to approximately 40 percent of the city's supply. It now has a race against time and if this project is not completed by November 1 the city and the governmental facilities will be faced with a critical water shortage which will result in untold damage to the economy of the area and to the value of all installations.

I hope that this committee will find it possible not only to agree with the Navy Department as to the legality of its action but will also agree from the point of sound business practice and also from the moral point of view that the Federal Government should not renege on its agreements entered into in good faith by the community and the Government. I have here a letter from Governor Warren, of California, which I desire to read at this time. It is addressed to Senator Aiken, dated January 14, 1947:

It has been called to my attention that your committee is holding public hearings on the matter of the construction of an aqueduct near San Diego, Calif., as covered in the report of the Comptroller General of the United States, dated January 27, 1947.

As you know, the water situation in San Diego County is critical, and I feel that any action taken to disrupt the construction of this project will have a

serious effect on both the city and county of San Diego. I understand that the acute water shortage has necessitated the issuance of instructions that the watering of lawns be discontinued in order to conserve water for human consumption. As you know, without water the city of San Diego cannot exist.

It is my conviction that in view of the money already expended, coupled with the disastrous effects that the discontinuance of this project would have, appropriate action should be taken by your committee to insure that this project be completed as contracted for by the Navy Department.

Very sincerely yours,

EARL WARREN, Governor of California.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions of Senator Knowland? Senator MCCLELLAN. As I understand it, Senator, the only question involved here is the legal question. No one questions the necessity for the project. The need is indispensable, as I take it, and the only question involved is whether there was legal authority to do what has already been done.

Senator KNOWLAND. Under the War Powers Act.

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Senator MCCLELLAN. I mean that is the only issue involved here? Senator KNOWLAND. Yes; I think that is substantially correct. course, looking at it from the point of view of the Congress we do have a tremendous investment in facilities there essential to the national defense. The Government has made a considerable investment in the aqueduct, approximately two-thirds or more of the cost having already been made, so it would seem from a practical, good-business point of view that some way should be found, if indeed it does not already exist under existing statutes, that this work should be completed, and that the contract, as I pointed out, which was entered into in good faith, shall be lived up to.

Senator MCCLELLAN. As I understand it, the question simply amounts to this. If there was no actual, legal authority for the beginning of construction, and the expenditure of moneys that have been expended up to this time, then the need still exists and it ought to be authorized.

Senator KNOWLAND. That is right, I believe.

Senator MCCLELLAN. That is the real question here.

Senator KNOWLAND. I think, Senator, you put it very aptly. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? Senator Knowland.

Thank you,

Our next witness is Congressman Charles K. Fletcher, representing the Twenty-third California District.

Mayor KNOX. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, Mr. Fletcher handed me his testimony and explained that he had another committee meeting and might be back later.

(The statement submitted by Hon. Charles K. Fletcher, Representative in Congress from the Twenty-third California District follows:) STATEMENT ON THE WATER SUPPLY PROBLEMS OF SAN DIEGO, CALIF., PRESENTED BEFORE THE SENATE COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS, BY CHARLES K. FLETCHER, M. C.

Since the beginning of the war, there has existed a grave danger to the Navy and to San Diego County of a water shortage which could very easily be disastrous. As Representative of the Twenty-third Congressional District of San Diego County, I am familiar with much of the testimony which will be given by the Navy, the county water authority, and the city, to help prove the emergency and legality of the contractual agreements made by the Navy and San Diego.

I do not wish to duplicate other testimony but I do wish to impress upon you how absolutely necessary it is to the Navy and to the entire county of San Diego that there be no delay in the completion of the Colorado River water aqueduct.

The county is larger than the State of Rhode Island; has a population of over 511,000; and is the twenty-third county in the United States in value of agricultural produce. Water is king in our region; without it our fruit trees will die, vegetables will not grow, and the produce and livelihood of many of our people from agriculture would be lost.

The Navy has over $350,000,000 of various installations which must be protected. Already the Navy and Marines are letting the lawns, shrubs, and trees die because of water shortage.

The lack of water for industrial uses would seriously cripple our economic life. The home office of Consolidated-Vultee, the largest airplane corporation in the world, must not be allowed to suffer because of lack of water. We pack 30 percent of the tuna of the United States in San Diego and one of our largest sources of revenue is from the tourist business which wil certainly be curtailed if our water becomes unpotable.

The domestic users of the Colorado River water aqueduct must not be made to suffer in all parts of the county and have the planting around their homes perish. It is a fact that the Government owns 57 percent of the land of San Diego County. A large part of this is not State and National forest land but consists of the multi-million-dollar investments in the largest Marine camp, Camp Pendleton, in Camp Elliott, in the Fallbrook ammunition depot, and in the other vast Navy and Marine installations. These buildings are of light construction and are subject to a high fire hazard. The immediate completion of the Colorado River water aqueduct is necessary for high water pressure to fight fire in San Diego County.

I cannot stress too strongly that the Navy and San Diego County have for years faced a critical water shortage which today is on the verge of a disaster of the first magnitude unless the Colorado River water aqueduct is completed during the month of September as estimated by the Navy. The only parties to gain by stoppage of the Colorado River aqueduct would be the seven construction firms which would be relieved of completing under contracts which are not profitable to them.

The CHAIRMAN. We will hear Congressman Fletcher in an oral statement if he returns later.

Is Mr. Warne in the room? Will you take the stand, Mr. Warne, and identify yourself and proceed with your testimony?

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM E. WARNE, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER OF THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Mr. WARNE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, my name is William E. Warne. I am Assistant Commissioner of the Bureau of Reclamation, and I am appearing today to testify in connection with the construction of the San Diego aqueduct, as a member, still in the Government service, of the committee appointed by President Roosevelt in October of 1944 to study, report, and make recommendations on methods of financing the construction of facilities necessary for the transfer of Colorado River water to the city of San Diego.

Senator ROBERTSON. May I interrupt? I want to call attention to the fact that the witness has a written statement of 15 or 16 pages, and over 50 pages of exhibits. Under the Reorganization Act he is supposed to summarize that brief in 10 minutes, if he can; and if he reads this in extenso, we will not be able to hear anyone else today, and we are anxious to hear the other witnesses. Could you give a summary of this and put the complete statement in the record?

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The CHAIRMAN. I think that will save quite a lot of time, Mr. Warne, you can do that-summarize your statement.

Mr. WARNE. I will be glad to do that. It may not be as orderly a procedure as the written statement which I have submitted to the reporter, but I will go through it, and I think that in the time indicated can give you the high spots. I will be glad to be interrupted by anyone with questions, because in that way we may be able to develop the thesis a little better.

President Roosevelt on October 3, 1944, sent a letter to me designating me as the chairman of this committee, and the committee was set up shortly thereafter, with members including General Reybold, Chief of Engineers for the War Department; Admiral Moreell, Chief of Yards and Docks of the Navy Department, both of whom have since retired; Mr. Baird Snyder, who has since died, who was then Assistant Administrator of the Federal Works Agency; and myself, the Federal representatives, and Mr. Phil Swing, who was then representing the San Diego County Water Authority, as another representative. The San Diego County Water Authority was an organization that had been established at that time for the purpose of eventually opening up a water supply for the city.

The President's letter and letters from Senator Downey to the President, which also came down to this committee that I mentioned, are among the exhibits presented, as are the other matters relating to the establishment of that committee.

Senator FERGUSON. Will you state briefly the source of the committee, the authority of the committee to determine whether it was necessary to build the aqueduct, as well as the meaning of "financing"? Mr. WARNE. We assumed that it went to the necessitySenator FERGUSON. Not what you assumed, but what did it do? Mr. WARNE. The authority will be found in President Roosevelt's letter of October 3. I could read that to you.

The CHAIRMAN. What year was that?

Mr. WARNE. 1944. The letter says:

On recommendation of the Secretary of the Interior, I am designating you as the chairman of an interdepartmental committee to make a study, a report, and recommendations to me on methods of financing proposed construction of facilities to transfer Colorado River water to relieve a critical shortage in the supplies for the city of San Diego, Calif., and nearby communities.

Senator FERGUSON. Then it was really authority to look into financing, was it not?

Mr. WARNE. Yes; in the main that was the principal function.
Senator FERGUSON. Well, isn't that the only purpose?

Mr. WARNE. We considered that at the time we had also the job of looking into the best method of bringing the water and necessity for bringing the water into the city. The President's letter of October 3, 1944, listed that as one of the subjects of inquiry.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you know of any other commissions that were appointed to look into war projects, to see how to finance them? Didn't they come directly to Congress and ask for an appropriation to finance war contracts?

Mr. WARNE. I know of none other that was handled as the San Diego aqueduct was, Senator.

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Senator FERGUSON. That is what I am trying to get at now. Why did he set up a commission to look into the financing of this project if the Navy had authority to build it? Why didn't they build it in the regular way, as a war project, as they built many others?

Mr. WARNE. There were several reasons here that perhaps did not exist in other projects. For example, the city of San Diego and the county of San Diego had a contract with the Bureau of Reclamation, Department of the Interior, for a study of the engineering plans for the transference of Colorado River water into the San Diego area. Senator FERGUSON. But I come back to my question. What does that have to do with the financing of this project?

Senator MCCARTHY. May I interrupt, Senator? As I understand it, this was done under authority of Public Law 289. The purpose of your study would be to give the Naval Affairs Committees of the House and Senate sufficient information so that you could get the approval of those committees for the proposed project.

Mr. WARNE. We had the task then of familiarizing the various Federal agencies, of whom four were at interest here, in the project, and the problems incident thereto.

Senator FERGUSON. You do not claim that if you notified the committees of Congress, that gives you any legal authority? Committees of Congress cannot give legal authority, can they? They have got to enact legislation.

Mr. WARNE. I make no claims whatsoever with regard to this matter, except the findings that my committee did make in 1944. One of those findings did relate to the authority for the construction of the project. The committee met and took a considerable amount of evidence and testimony from the Bureau of Reclamation, which had been conducting engineering studies with the Corps of Engineers, the Bureau of Yards and Docks of the Navy Department, from the late Mr. Walter Cooper, then city manager of the city of San Diego, and from others who were interested.

The evidence as to the need for immediate action was plain to the committee. There was a serious overdraft on the local water supply, and it was clearly demonstrated that

Senator MCCARTHY (interposing). Mr. Warne, you use the word "committee" and the word "commission" interchangeably. You are now referring to your commission?

Mr. WARNE. I refer to the same group; yes, sir. I will call them the commission from here on.

The CHAIRMAN. And that was in the fall of 1944?

Mr. WARNE. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That this immediate necessity was apparent? Mr. WARNE. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCARTHY. There was some confusion in my mind when you used the word "committee." I assume you were referring to some congressional committee. So if you would use the word "commission," we will know that you are referring to your own commission. Mr. WARNE. I will do so, unless I make a slip of the tongue. Senator ROBERTSON. I just want to say at this point that the clerk of the committee has given us a copy of Document No. 249, which was submitted to the second session of the Seventy-eighth Congress, and that was on December 4, legislative day, November 21, 1944. This document shows that the President made a report to the Senate

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