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did not write it. I saw it in the paper. It was just after the conviction & the I. W. W.'s, I remember that.
(Objection on behalf of defendants reading into the record article of Augus 31, 1918, Milwaukee Leader, on the ground that there has consistently has excluded from the trial testimony subsequent to the date of the indictment
, or its being made public, on March 9th. Objection overruled. Exception by con fendants).
That is not an interview. It was an editorial, and I did not write it het it expresses my sentiments, that the I. W. W. are not traitors, but they very desperate proletarians. They use the wrong tactics, and have not stopped
at force in their agitation, and it is the government's duty to check theo 1862 and halt them; that some of the tactics of the government are asinité,
that if the French government could get along with their syndicalists II am anti-syndicalist) this government could too if it used the right tactics.
I do not remember the legal proceedings down in New York City before the United States Court, before Judge Mayer, United States District judge, in akr nection with the Lusitania case. I did not pay any attention to that. I da not know whether the matter was printed or not. We printed a paper about 14 pages, and it is impossible for me to remember everything. We made certain statements about the Lusitania, that the Lusitania was operating it violation of international law, carrying munitions.
Mr. Cochems: I object to counsel reading in anything here from a procree! ing which has not been identified to this witness, and by a vagrant question carrying the suggestion in to this case that there is something in this paper concerning any one's decision.
The Court: Your point being that there is nothing in the pape* 1863 about it?
Mr. Cochems: No; and the question was asked with the implication that there was.
The Court: Your point is that there is nothing in the paper about it?
Mr. Cochems: That is my point, and I ask him to come through with the evidence.
The Court: He can show if there is anything in the paper or not.
The Witness :- I cannot recollect printing anything at the time with respect to Judge Mayer's decision in the Lusitania case. I do not know whether I ever heard that the Court had decided that case. I do not remember a decision by Judge Mayer wherein he held that the sinking of the Lusitania was illegal and in violation of the law of nations.
(Objected to on behalf of defendants on the ground that the legality, or ille gality of a question in international law has no relation to the question at issue. Objection overruled by the Court. Exception by the defendants).
I have not heard of that decision. It may have been printed, but I cannot even say that I never heard of it. The honest answer would be that I do not recollect.
Mr. Cochems: I will read the rest of the I. W. W. matter of September 6, 1917 (Read by counsel for defendants.)
The I. W. W.'s as I understand it, were convicted in this court room in 1915. lately. Karl Marx, at the time of our Civil War, in England, espoused the cats of the North, against the South, against slavery. He was in close contact with the leaders of the English trades unions and English labor, and he helped arrange mass meetings and used his influence to create sentiment in favor of the North and against the South. There was quite a little sentiment for the South in England. The English cotton industry was seriously injured by the blockade against the south, for they could not export any cotton to England, and the south had a good many sympathizers in England. In fact, the government as such, recognized the South as a belligerent, and was on the point of recognizing the South as an independent state, when the battle of Gettysburg made an ent to that. Karl Marx was very active in that respect, and helped prepare the ground for Henry Ward Beecher, who did a good deal of agitation for the cause of the North. I remember Karl Marx's Socialist letter to Abraham Lincoln
that time, although I do not remember the absolute wording of it 1865. With reference to the first vote on the appropriation of funds, voted
upon by the German Socialists when the war opened, and with referent to the International Socialists of France, England and the other countries in that respect, in France they split in two right from the very beginning, on the
r question as a whole. The first war appropriations in France were voted
by the Socialists, all of them. Three Socialists joined the ministry, two ving it very soon, and one staying until a few months ago. The Socialists it did not vote for the war bonds, or for anything, and opposed the war m the beginning to the end, are the Socialists of England, the so-called Indeident Labor party. They opposed it, and stood like a rock. There was one all English faction, a very small group, the so-called Social Democratic deration, that came in for the war, but they split in two right away, and the ger part of that small faction opposed the war. After the first vote for propriations by the German Socialists, the parties split. The majority faction, the appropriations, did not vote for a single appropriation any more, not for single one. In Italy they opposed the war right from the start, and the jority there opposed it right to the end. With reference to whether the es of the German Socialists after the first vote had any relation to their
insistance upon the Junker or government crowd, and kaiser crowd con$6 senting to certain terms of peace, they did not vote for those later issues.
That is, the minority did not vote for any of the bonds, nor for any loans; d as for the majority, they had practically the same conditions of peace as ľ president, with this difference, that they wanted a plebiscite, or vote for sace-Lorraine to decide to which country they wanted to belong, Germany or
That was the main difference. I did not get any news except by way London, Copenhagen and Amsterdam. That is about the only news we got. so, they wanted Belgium indemnified by all of the nations; not by Germany ne, but internationally. In Alsace-Lorraine they wanted a plebiscite, or at we call a referendum, the right of self determination of small nations. When they went into my offices in Milwaukee, and about the time they came o the offices in Chicago, I was not subpoenaed, and how in the world could I er imagine that I would be indicted? I never thought I would be indicted my life, and I have been in this movement for thirty-seven years. I have ver been in court a day in my life, and I have never been fined one dollar. le second amendment to the Constitution of the United States is the right to
The first is free press, free assembly, free speech; and the second is that the right to bear arms shall not be interfered with, and that they shall 37 be secure in their persons.
With regard to the Lusitania matter, I said the boat carried munitions. lid not intend to say anything about whether the boat was armed or not. I 1 not testify in regard to the question of the arming of the boat, or some rjury, or some testimony in that connection, to my knowledge. I heard about here, but I only knew it carried munitions, 3,400 boxes. (Counsel for defendants read into the record from page 2497 of the Congres
sional Record, February 9, 1917.) 68 Congressional Record, p. 2947, Feb. 9, 1917
“ In March, 1915, the J. P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and wder interests, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high
in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential wspapers in the l'nited States and sufficient number of them to control genally the policy of the daily press of the United States. " These 12 men worked the problem out by selecting 179 newspapers, and then gan, by an elimination process, to retain only those necessary for the purpose
controlling the general policy of the daily press throughout the country. ney found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest pers. The 25 papers were agreed upon; emissaries were sent to purchase the licy, national and international, of these papers; an agreement was reached ; e policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was rnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding e questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things
national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the Irchasers, "This contract is in existence at the present time, and it accounts for the news lumns of the daily press of the country being filled with all sorts of preparedss arguments and misrepresentations as to the present condition of the United ates Army and Navy. and the possibility and probability of the United States ing attacked by foreign foes. " This policy also included the suppression of everything in opposition to the ishes of the interests served. The effectiveness of this scheme has been conusively demonstrated by the character of stuff carried in the daily press throughit the country since March, 1915. They have resorted to anything necessary to
commercialize public sentiment and sandbag the National Congress into na etravagant and wasteful appropriations for the Army and Navy under the pretense that it was necessary. Their stock argument is that it is * patriotis
They are playing on every prejudice and passion of the American peopin 1869 Witness continuing: In March, 1915, it was the current report this
Pierpont Morgan was the financial agent of the Allies; of Great Brita first, and of all the Allies later; that he employed a man by the name of tinius to buy war material. Mr. Stettinius, junior partner of the firm of Pierpont Morgan & Company, was employed as purchasing agent. As for Morgan interests buying papers, that is also a matter of common knowie It has been variously reported whenever one or the other member of the tim bought a daily paper. The latest purchase was the New York Sun, by Lam That went to the entire press.
(Statements of Congressman J. Hampton Moore read from Congression Record by counsel for defendants.)
I do not know of any paper, either in our town, or anywhere else, the 1870 gave the Red Cross, or those other war auxiliaries or charities that
recognized any space that was not paid for. The custom in regard to the was that the advertising manager would go out and get certain firms to adverte, either the Red Cross, or the Liberty Bonds, et-cetera ; and they would pay tu the space, and the government would furnish the matrix. That means the benes sary patriotic mottoes, figures, and pictures, you know, would go in, and the as vertising would go right in it. Our manager told me that he always had trouble in securing those matrixes, and that in some cases we had to have the made purposely ourselves. I saw the statement that Victor S. Lawson, edite of the Daily News of Chicago, made a statement to the Press Association pro testing against the request, in The Editor & Publisher, a monthly publicatiei, professional publication, and also, I believe, in The Fourth Estate, anotte publication of the same type, a weekly. I do not remember the name of the mon sentative of the government in Milwaukee who gave out the Liberty Land That was not my department. That was the advertising department. I do ze remember his name. I knew it, but I forget it. After we were excluded fra the mails on October 3, 1917, there came through these Liberty Loans and War
Savings Stamps, and other ads; we had quite a number of them, and ye 1871 have the list there. The government did not place any ads, but we he:
those mats and those ads ilfter November 3, 1917, up to date. Rose Paco Stokes is the wife of James Graham Phelps Stokes. She was originally a dor maker who became a settlement worker. She was a cigar maker in Clevelar. and became a settlement worker in New York, and married Mr. Stokes, who also was a settlement worker, a wealthy man in the east. Her life has been sex among the poor, for the poor. I was selected on February 25, 1918, by our State Committee, as a candidate for Senator up there. We had no time for referendum. and the State Committee selected me for candidate for l’nited States Senate for the state of Wisconsin. That was given publicity at that time in the currer press; all the papers had it. I heard a statement of counsel here in the procesa of this trial, that this indictment had been returned on February 2nd, but a orders from Washington had been held up until sometime in March. I was non pated for the United States Senate for the end of February, February 25th. 0. March 8th I was served with the indictment, which was about 11 or 12 days later.
Recross Ecamination by Jr. Fuller.
I do not know anything about whether that indictment was returned before this judge here in this court on February 2, 1918. I testified tha:
the date was dated that way, but I did not know anything about 1872 until March 8th. I do not know that it was filed in this court te
February 2nd, and I had no way of knowing. I know now that it wa filed with the clerk, because you have told me; but I did not know at that time. You might have known, but the general public did not know. I did not know until March 8th. One of the statements of the German Socialists' terme of peace was that they included an indemnity to Belgium, to be paid her by all of the powers. They had several of them, but one of them stated that they wanted Belgium indemnified by all of the powers. I do not reinen ber on what date exactly we got that, but we had that statement, and al of the papers had it. I believe we printed it. I do not know when we got it. I printed so many statements during the last year and a half that! cannot remember them all. I do not remeniber the particular statement of the
is of peace issued by the German Socialists. Statements of the terms he German Socialists were issued quite a number of times since we end the war; half a dozen, at least, maybe seven, or eight or nine or ten, Maybe only tire. I do not remember. We carried those items in the or every time one of them came along from the United Press. If I had enough, I could find in our paper a statement of the terms. To find a
statement wherein the German Socialists demand an indemnity for Belgium, and that the indemnity shall be paid by all of the different
powers involved in the controversy, you would have to go through entire file, and that would take a long time. I have no time. That Do long. I said that they had several of them, and that one of the terms nded an indemnity to Beligum by all of the powers, because they claimed ; all of the powers, being a capitalistic war, were all equally guilty, and of the powers were to indemnify Beligum. That is what I said. You 1 that statement from the Milwaukee Leader under date of June 16, 1916, the first page, yesterday. That is the same thing I had yesterday, so re is no use reading it again. I will read it. “What may be considered ipproximate the German government peace terms was outlined here Satay, when the German majority Socialists gave out their program for
The striking points are: no indemnity for Belgium.” That is one many. They had a half a dozen more. “Because it would be difficult determine which belligerents were responsible for the damages on the ious fronts, and a one-sided liability would merely mask an indemnity." $ was one of many terms of peace. They had half a dozen more. I ik they gave out a good many peace terms at that time during the r and a half. Those others included a plebiscite for Alsace-Lorraine. One
of them included the retention by Germany of Alsace-Lorraine, be4 cause, as set forth here, they were nine-tenths German; and the others
claimed the self determination of all small nationalities; that they I to determine by a referendum to which side they wanted to go. There re half a dozen other dispatches from Stockholm, Amsterdam, Christiana, 1 other towns, including London. I did not testify to the purchase of er newspapers on behalf of the British government, or the Allied Powers, propaganda purposes. They read a report, or they read a statement from Congressional Record. I did not testify to that. I testified that this had n said in the Congress of the United States. Referring to the Liberty an ads which we carried, I do not remember the date, but I suppose if i have the date beginning April 8, 1918, that is their date.
Redirect Eramination by Jr. Cochems.
There were all kinds of later conditions of peace offers. There were all ids of peace statements printed for a year and a variety of them, both im the German government and the Allied governments. That is, they did t have many, but even they had some. We had some, and the Germans d quite a number of them and the German Socialist party had some, and e French Socialist party had some. They all had peace offers and we inted them as we got them through the United Press. We have United
Press Service, and we printed then. There were half a dozen ; and 75 there may have been ten. Some of them included the condition that
Belgium must be indemnified by all of the powers. There was one of em read here by Mr. Fleming two or three times that did not include that. is a fact that Pope Benedict, in his proposal in regard to Belgium, in his nouncement to the world, his invitation to the powers, proposed a mutual ndonation by all of the powers, and a mutual rebuilding of Belgium. (Government offers in evidence news item setting forth German Socialist ace terms, in issue of Milwaukee Leader of June 16, 1917, marked Govt. 1. 177.
GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT NO. 177.
Berlin Socialists Give Out German Terms To End War
Favor Retention of Alsace and Return of Colonies Under no Annexation
Stockholm-What may be considered to approximate the German governent's peace terms were outlined here Saturday when the German majority
Socialists gave out their program for peace. The striking points of the play were:
No indemnity for Belgium-because " it would be difficult to determine whini belligerents were responsible for damages on the various fronts, and a one-side liability would merely mask an indemnity."
Return of the German colonies—under the Socialist doctrine of “no ante tions."
Retention by Germany of Alsace-Lorraine, “because they are nine-tentu German."
Want Full Independence. The outline likewise insists on complete political and military independeses of all nations. Belgium is to agree with her Austrian comrades regarding the future of Serbia and other Balkan nations.
Poland's and Finland's future is to be left to determination of those providers. themselves—if independence is impossible there, certainly they shall be automous.
To Greece, Ireland, Egypt, Korea, Tripoli, Morocco and Thibet the Germen Socialists extended "greatest sympathy” and Socialists in those principalities were urged to work for independence.
Alsace First German.
"These are nine-tenths German. They originally belonged to Germany and then to France. If they are returned to France now it would be annexation"
After return of peace the Germans would have “international arbitration and disarmament, except for defensive measures, and for short enlistment for a police army."
There should be an international decision on all war-provoking disputes. 1877
Suggestions for Future Listing their suggestions for future international laws, the German Socialist would require :
No exportation of munitions by neutrals.
Giving out their outline, the German Socialists urged that the general Social ist conference declare it is not willing to discuss the responsibility for the present war unless the entente delegates insist on this.
The German Socialists' program as outlined above differs somewhat from terms for peace which have generally and semi-officially been credited to the German government. Germany has usually indicated its willingness to indemnify Belgium.
The German majority Socialists are headed by Philip Scheidemann and are supporters of the government. 1878 Witness continuing: I did not write the I. W. W. note of August 31
1918, that was read in here by counsel this morning. I did not knot about it before it was in the paper, but I knew about it when it came out it. the paper afterwards. I wrote the first one Mr. Fleming read; the interview, I wrote, or dictated the interview of 1917.
(Witness excused.) 1879 ADOLPH GERMER, a defendant, previously sworn, recalled, further testified as follows:
Direct Examination by Mr. Stedman. In 1917; the early part of the year, say, midsummer, there were between 85,000 and 87,000 members in the Socialist party. With reference to the sticker " Refuse to Register; Others Are With You," I never saw it, and never heard of