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I wrote Government's Exhibits 113, being a letter to Theodore R. Lunde, Rees Street, Chicago, Illinois. I had received a letter from him. (Coupe reads from letter to Mr. Tucker :

“ The chief concern of the writer is apparently disorganization and the par lyzing of the nation's military power, a condition which by us is apt to viewed with the greatest complacency. The ability to fight usually assets its with the necessity for fighting. We have for the last three years had a stan: ing provation to assert ourselves. As we neglected our opportunity it may na be considered forfeited."

1498 Defendants object as incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial; ohin

tion overruled ; defendants accept. To that letter I replied thanking him for it and stating that the clippines enclosed were valuable material and that I would make use of them. THE refers to the clipping of the New York Mail, and not of the Saturday Event Post. I had not been reading the New York Mail, never saw the clipping until he sent them to me. In his letter in speaking of the chief concern of the writer, to disorganize and paralize, etc., he did not mean me; I don't know who else he meant. In my reply I referred to the clipping from the New York Mail which published at length certain correspondence which he had with th: Secretary of State of the United States. I don't know that that was the car New York Mail which Bernsdorf had purchased.

Q. You do not know that?
A. No.

(Defendants object to the insinuation in the question, and to the for objection overruled ; defendants except.)

I went to Milwaukee July 9th, 1917, and made a speech there at the Audi torium, being asked to go by Mr. Malms who testified here that he was sheria of Milwaukee for a time. I have quite a few newspaper clippings from the Sentinel, not from the Leader. I don't remember that I said in my speech : substance that America has been dragged into this war by her money kina and that the working people must do the fighting and pay the war debt!

probably did say it, I wish I had, I know that I thought that; I als 1499 spoke in effect as you quote from my speech about America helping the

Allies get everything they want and England wanting Germany's over sea trade and colonies Mesopatamia and Syria, quoting from Lloyd Georges speech which I had at the time. Mr. Berger and Mr. Seidel and Prof. Kesh were on the platform. I heard the resolutions offered at that meeting, but don't remember them, but I have copies of them. I suppose from the article For show me in the Milwaukee Leader of July 10th that the resolutions wery adopted. I do not recall Mr. Berger seconding the motion to adopt these resolutions; did not pay much attention to the resolutions. Items numbers 4 and 1 favoring repeal of conscription law and immediate peace without ar nexation or indemnities met with my approval and still do. I was on the platform during the whole course of the meeting, about one and a half or *** hours. I do not remember who offered the resolutions.

I also spoke at Pabst Park but I can not fix the date, possibly August 1901. The newspaper item “The Rev. Tucker talks refreshes my recollection, and I will say that I was in Milwaukee August 16th. I was invited by the Chantat qua organization there to deliver an address, and I did deliver it; did not Mr. Berger there on that visit.

I remember dictating the letter found on page 131 of Book "A" that is been offered in evidence, printed on the stationery headed “ Socialist Party National Committee"; also the letter on pages 132 and 133. They refu

to the Books " Usurp the Power of the Courts, etc." The letters 1500 refer to getting rid of a lot of the books that were among the litera

ture that I had charge of. I don't remember any talk with Engdahl ** Germer before sending out those letters. That is one of the things I ** asked by Mr. Germer to do, to get rid of some of the literature that *** accumulating there and help stimulate the circulation of the America Socialist; and this was about the first thing I tried.

I made a speech at Staunton, Illinois, in which I referred to Hoote quoting his appearance before the United States Senate in which he said the the Russian revolution was caused by a bread riot, the French revolution w caused by a bread riot; and that wherever there had been shortage of free that was nation wide there had always been some sort of revolution. That is I remember quoting from Mr. Hoover. I don't remember telling the people that speech in substance who is Mr. Hoover that he should be directing to carry out any rules and regulations in connection with food; nor saying r a while Mr. Hoover will be asking us to boil rocks to make soup. I had last sentiment in mind but I don't think I said it. I don't think that I [ the people present that this was a capitalistic war; I told them the facts | they drew that inference. I did not use that language ever as regards our ry into the war. At that time Mr. Hoover was trying to promulgate certain es to preserve certain foods of the country in general I was in sympathy h his rules, but I thought he did not go far enough; he was cutting down

on the poor people and letting the rich people have all they wanted, that 1 was what I was objecting to. I don't remember telling the people to

follow the rules laid down by Mr. Hoover. I did tell them that I thought people who had four courses per meal were not saving as much as the ple who were having two meals a day. I remember distinctly referring to McAdoo as the son-in-law of heaven.

remember making a speech July 8th at the Riverview Picnic grounds, and s chairman of that meeting. In the course of my address I said that the ple were gathered together to voice their protest against the conscription v and the muzzling of the press. I was not particularly in sympathy with : draft, I did not care much. [ recall a meeting held at the Douglas Park Auditorium on December 28th, 17, presided over by James H. Dolson, who was organizer for the Chicago inch of the Peoples Council and a member of the Socialist party. I never ard of him being connected with the conscript league. I do not remember my address saying that this is not a war for an ideal as the Presdent has d us, but a war for the captalists, a Wall street war. I remember saying at the raising of these liberty bonds will be saddled on the necks of your ildren for the capitalists cannot make money out of air or water, and there only one fluid that he can make it from, and that is the sweat of your brow d the brows of your posterity. I used that language in substance. I don't

remember whether the defendant Kruse was present, he may have been 02 there, I don't remember talking with him, I left to catch a train. I

don't remember Mr. William A. Nathanson being present, he may very Il have been there. I know him and have heard him speak but do not reII his speaking on that occasion. There were about 250 or 300 people present. As to a meeting at Socialist Turner Hall the last part of July, 1917, I do t remember being present, or of Mr. Wentworth being chairman ; I do not member saying in substance that the conscientious objectors stand in the me position as the American martyrs stood 148 years ago when they fought r the present constitution; I know that is my opinion but I don't remember hether I said it or not. I remember saying that conscientious objectors do it want cowards in their ranks but men who will die if need be for the cause; have said that in substance on occasion but do not remember the occasion you ention at all. I remember being present at a meeting at the West Side Auditorium about ptember 18, 1917, at which I delivered a speech, in which I was so much inrested that I am afraid I did not notice who the rest of the speakers were, I lieve Mr. Nathanson was present; he and I occasionally spoke on the same 'ogram; I don't remember whether Mr. Kruse or Mr. Germer were present on lat occasion. I do not recall a meeting in the West Side Auditorium in Ocber when I and Mr. Engdahl and Mr. Germer were present and spoke. I reill a meeting in Riverview Park on Sunday, June 17th, and speaking there; do t remember saying "Whatever I might say to you in public, my opinions exressed in private are much stronger;" I usually said exactly what I thought,

or tried to. 503 I have told you three times that I remember the speech of June 17,

1917, at Riverview Park, and I read the speech which I delivered on that casion in full. Mr, Stedman also spoke on that occasion. I can not rememer the language you have just repeated to me as being used by me in that ddress.

Redirect E.camination by Mr. ('unnea.

The resolutions of the July 10th meeting were a direct quotation from Presient Wilson's speech on December 18, 1916. I have not the original clippings hat were enclosed in the letter of Lunde.

Mrs. Hudson was the head under Mr. Germer of the organization depar ment, and she handled those official leaflets and monthly leaflets; the cireni tion of the war program was under her direction, and also the circulation the monthly organization leaflet.

I know of members being arrested by the Department of Justice. I reme ber the case of Francis Potter, in June 1917; he and Truman Potter were a rested at Orchestra Hall for failing to stand when the Star Spangled Bann was played ; I know also of the similar arrest of Frederick Sumner Boyd 11 New York City; I have spoken with both of them since that time. The dai press was carrying the statement of these arrests being made in the City of Chicago prior to the time I wrote this pamphlet. Mr. Clabaugh's office mad

the arrests. 1504 My church activities have not ceased. I conducted services yesterdal

at All Saints Church. I did not see the orders that came in for literatun before the time they were filled. The battle of the Somme was a part of the l'nited States picture. Mr. Furbeshaw told me he was Mr. Clabaugh's assist ant. My attention has been directed to the secret treaties that actuated an animated European governments in entering into this war; those treaties ao prehended everything else except making the world safe for democracy. Whil I found out that the pamphlet, “The Price We Pay” was regarded as beis improper by the postmaster I ceased any attempt to send it through the mail, when I found that he said it was unmailable.

Recross Eramination by Mr. Clyne.

Mr. O'Malley told me that on June 30th ; after that we did not send the pamphlet out by mail but by express and other means, because I asked if he had any objection to my sending out by express and he said no. My connection with the national office ceased on August second or third; I continued to receive mail there down until November and was there from time to time; did not know particularly what was going on with respect to the circulation of the pamph et: was not connected with the office, and if they circulated it it was their business and not mine; I don't know whether they did or not.

Redirect Examination by Mr. Cunnea. A great deal of mail is sent to me there yet because that is the only ad1505 dress of mine that is known to many people outside of Chicago. AUGUSTIN H. W. ANDERSON, a witness on behalf of the defendants, sworn and testified:

Direct Examination by Mr. Cunnea.

My name is Augustin H. W. Anderson, I am a priest of the Episcopal church, rector of All Saints Church, Ravenswood, Illinois and have been for 11 years I know the defendant Tucker; have known him between 5 and 6 years. He has been connected with my church between 2 and 3 years, and in the last two years has been personal assistant to me, since I have been chairman of draft board 59 I have had to have assistants. I became chairman some time in the latter part of June, 1917, but Father Tucker had assisted me before that; his standing is the same as that of any other Episcopal clergyman, he has the credentials and the right to officiate.

I have had conversations with Father Tucker between April 1917 and March 1918 with regard to his position with the war activities of the United States; I could not remember every conversation; in some we discussed war ains. I recall one conversation which was prior to March 1918 in which he said the only hope, so far as he could see, for ending the war was for the German people to kill the Kaiser, and he hoped it would happen. Father Tucker officiated at the 11. o'clock service at my church yesterday; he a so officiated Christmas Day.

1506

Cross-Examination by Mr. Fleming. I did not read Mr. Tucker's reply to the President's Flag Day Speech, nor his literary efforts, “Why you should fight”, nor “ The Price We Pay". I have heard of them in the papers, not this particular pamphlet “Why You Should Fight”, I have never head of it and do not know the contents of it, nor of the other pamphlet mentioned, nor the Flag Day Speech, nor the “Garden of Eden:

er heard Mr. Tucker make any speeches on the war; could not say that he has ifically told me that he was trying to stir

up enthusiasm on beha f of the rnment in this war, but he has said something similar to that. He has told I think, that he was trying to get young men to enlist in the services of the ted States Army, because he endeavored to assist his brother and support

financially while he was studying to be an officer, that was some time last mer, possibly after his indictment in this case, not being a clairvoyant I not state as to that. I do not recall when that conversation took place. I e discussed with him in a general way his writings; he told me his idea of causes of this war, giving me the impression that he was opposed to it because ras an imperialistic war on the part of Germany; he said since the United tes had entered into the war it was our duty to support it, he told me that it specifically on several occasions; he said that since we were in it it was duty to carry it to a successful issue, he told me that ever since we

entered it. 7 To the best of my knowledge I have never seen a Socialistic paper in

my life; Mr. Tucker never told me about any advertisement of buying a rty bond, a real one, not the bankers kind. It is not the rule in the Episal Church that a minister should give his undivided time to the work of the tistry; the rector of a parish may use as much assistance as he sees fit, it is necessary that he get the consent of the bishop; any priest in good standing administer anywhere with the consent of the rector of that parish.

Redirect Eramination by Mr. Cunnca.

know that one of Mr. Tucker's brothers is now in France and has received distinguished Service Order, and that one of his brothers is now in comnd of a military student's camp. I have always known that Father Tucker sa socialist. thereupon Counsel for defendants read into the record certain editorials, as lows: You Never Can Tell," from the Milwaukee Leader of August 14, 1916. 'Monarchy Must Be Swept Out,” from Milwaukee Leader of September 19, 7. 'The Dynasty Should Pay", from the Milwaukee Leader of May 3, 1917. 'To Kill Prussianism," Editorial of December 19, 1917. 'The American Autocracy,” Editorial of May 28, 1917. Without a Voice," Editorial in the Milwaukee Leader of August 4,

1914. 18 "What is Behind the Curtain," an editorial by Mr. Berger, August 5.

“The Hope of Civilization," in the same issue of the paper. Lest We Forget," in the Leader of August 1, 1914. The European War, Its Causes and Its Probable Results,” an editorial in Leader of August 21, 1914. * The European War, its Causes and Its Probable Results,” in the Leader of ptember 3, 1914. Austria and the Kaiser in This War," Sept. 5, 1914. “ No Sense Shown at Any Time," an editorial in the Milwaukee Leader of tober 3, 1914. "Anti-War,” an editorial of April 6, 1917. Editorial of May 7, 1917. * Who Are the Genuine Americans," May 7, 1917. Keep History Straight,” May 25, 1917. Recent Fiction," editorial in the Milwaukee Leader of May 28th, 1917.

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The German Kaiser made a speech to a Prussian guard regiment near ronne on the English front a few days ago. He first expressed regret that he uld not do any actual fighting himself. He then said : “ I could take my place with the youngest of you, and I promise that I ould leave my mark on the enemy. But the inscrutable Almighty has ruled herwise. Into my care has been committed by divine destiny the leadership our country, its armies and its forces on land and sea. The burden of inking, leading and deciding has been hard upon me, and, realizing this, I

know that my life must not be risked in the foremost line of battle. My must be conserved carefully for the welfare of Germany in order to cart the duties assigned to me by divine appointment."

It was James Watt, the hymn writer, we believe, who said that “ God in a mysterious way His wonders to perform." The Kaiser's faith that be elected by heaven to rule over the German empire is as unshakable as faith of George Baer, president of the Reading railway, that * God in infinite wisdom has placed the coal properties in the hands of Christian men" to administer as they see best.

The American people did not take Baer seriously, but they permittel “ Christian gentlemen" to retain the essence of their “ divine right." CULA of the Social-Democrats, many of the Germans seem to take the Kaiser's 1 tensions to divine authority seriously. But the coal lands in the United Su may be administered to insure a reasonable return upon the investment a time after the Germans shall have relieved the Kaiser from the burder thinking, leading and deciding the problems of the German democracy.

You never can tell what the Almighty will do with the rulers that He appa over men when He decides to make a change. (Editorial from Vilea Leader of August 14, 1916.) 1510

Monarchy Must Be Swept Out. The German nation collectively is very efficient. There can be no du about that. But neither is there any doubt that the ruling class of Germa is as stupid and inefficient a class as there is to be found in any country.

That this class could hold its own so long is simply a proof of the polit immaturity of the German people. It is a disgrace to every man of Gere blood that Germany is still controlled by a kaiser and a yunker class, even China has gotten rid of her emperor and the Manchus.

The German Social-Democracy, in its great fight against capitalists and capitalist system, has overlooked that the remnants of the feudal system, cluding the monarchy and nobility, must be swept out before a new and her world can be ushered in successfully.

A person who knows the theory and the history of the Social-Democra party will not for one moment doubt the intentions of the German Socialis The monarchy and yunker class—which, by the way, is responsible for the L burgs and all the other German “ diplomats "—will be put out of cominisi immediately after the war. But it could do no harm if the great Geru Social-Democracy (both the majority and the minority factions) would some way give the world once more positive assurance in that direction. 1511

The Dynasty Should Pay One Million Three Hundred Thousand Germans have perished in the according to a statement made by Joseph Friedrich Naumann, formerly a "p! gressive" member of the reichstag. Herr Naumann, lecturing on the *1 fluence of the War on Population,” said in part:

Until now the war has caused a loss of 1,300,000 dead. This, together wi the decrease in birth, gives a reduction of 3,800,000. The surplus of femal has increased from 800,000 to far more than 2,000,000. The German nation ! bled as never since the 30 years' war.

And the Hohenzollern ought to be made to pay for it. If Germany is die Socialist republic within six months—we say “a Socialist republic" advised because it differs very much from the bourgeois republic in France and d plutocratic republic in America—then we shall really believe that the Germa have less political sense than the Chinamen.

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It is, of course, desirable that Prussian militarisni, junkerisi, German : tocracy, should be abolished.

Not that this would be a panacea for all the ills that the human race is by to, as some people seem to think. There is a great deal of Prussianis other countries, including our own, that also needs to be abolished. And the the mere crushing of Germany autocracy will not guarantee peace to the wo at all. Nothing but the establishment of Socialism can do that.

Nevertheless, Prussianism is a great evil and should be abolished.
The question is, what is the best method of abolishing it? :

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