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am going from here back to Leavenworth. I was not brought here in Icuffs all the time, but walked through the streets of Chicago in handcuffs, and was also handcuffed in Kansas City.

On Liberty bonds Mr. Berger took the position that not to buy a bond was almost equivalent to violating the law, and that socialists ought to violate the law and so it was better to buy a bond. I know the Leader bonds; I don' know about Mr. Berger himself.

Recross Examination by Mr. Clyne.

think Mr. Berger signed the St. Louis platform, and I should say from t he told me that he was in accord with it, I didn't discuss it with him ifically. The platform of July 24, 1917, provides for the repudiation of debts. My idea, and that of the platform, as I have explained, as to reation of war debts, that is not throwing out and burning the bonds, but ng every cent of principle and interest and then take it out in the shape of s, every cent. I would do that with every bondholder, and that is my idea epudiation of war debts. I can't answer yes or no whether Mr. Berger an internationalist; one of my quarrels was that he was not a good enough for me. I had a conversation with him on that subject and from that ered that he was not an internationalist in my understanding of the word. claimed to be what he called a two-shirt internationalist. I don't recall date, but I understood before I was inducted into the service that the der had Liberty Bonds, which was on May 31, 1918. I understood it had is on that date; I don't know how many.

Redirect Examination by Mr. Cochems.

reproached Mr. Berger at one time on the subject of his internationalism. said he was a nationalist and an internationalist; that he had two shirts, national shirt and over that the international shirt, meaning that he was American and an internationalist as well. The only way I know of of ing the liberty bonds besides by payment out of the taxes of the little or buyers is by taxing those who did not buy bonds of any sort. I believe : anybody who invested in this war ought to be taxed; I suppose in a eral system of taxation the bonds will have to be retired by the big and e fellow alike.

VIN ST. JOHN TUCKER, one of the defendants, sworn and testified:

Direct Examination by Mr. Cunnea.

y name is Irvin St. John Tucker ; I live at 4303 North Paulina Street, cago. I am at present educational director of the Workers Institute. I am sinister, a priest of the Protestant Episcopal Church; assistant to the ord in charge of All Saints Episcopal Church, Ravenswood. I was born Mobile, Alabama, January 10, 1886. My ancestry on both sides goes back this country prior to the American Revolution. My father was and is or of St. John's Church, Mobile, Alabama. I received my early education part in the public schools of Mobile, graduating at the age of 15, in June,

1901. I taught myself shorthand that summer and got a job in the ) Southern Railway freight office in Mobile. The following year I went

to New Orleans and became a reporter on the New Orleans Picayune, aining there until 1906. Then I beat my way as a reporter from town own from New Orleans through Texas to St. Louis and Chicago, remaining e about two years working on the Chicago Inter Ocean and Chicago iminer; came to Chicago in May, 1906, and went to work as re-write man the Inter Ocean and went to the Examiner as copy reader and also as rete nian, and was with the Examiner one year; then went down to Mobile the summer of 1908, because my eyes were bad. A rewrite man I define a scientific liar ; he takes the news the reporters bring in and rewrites it suit the policy of the paper, which is dictated by the big bankers and busis men who control the paper. I became disgusted with selling myself in t sort of a job, did not like it. I then studied for the ministry at a theologseminary in New York City in September, 1909, and graduated in 1912,

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and was made deacon of the Protestant Episcopal Church on June 8, 1913 and made application to join the Socialist party the same week. As a rporter and student I had come in contact with both the extremes of wealth a poverty, but Socialism as a remedy for it I did not regard very seriously. In 1908 I joined the national guards in Mobile, and went to the nations

guard camp in Chickamauga in the summer of that year. While I was 1421 there the coal strike broke out in Birmingham and I was ordered Jr

on strike duty, the strike having been called by the men to secure wha: then I regarded as being the fundamental rights of human beings, and we were out with our bayonets and rifles to prevent human beings from having the rights of human beings. I saw the homes in which these people lived, thir miners, which were in extremely bad condition; the children had no schools very frequently had insufficient food. I was disgusted at the way the soldier were being used, the disgust being produced by what I saw. I was intensils interested in discovering that in the Old and New Testaments the saints and prophets were what we would call now revolutionary Socialists; that was th» doctrine they preached. I found that these men were indicted and persecute! and frequently sent to jail because they were asking for the rights of human beings, and to live as such. I found that the founder of Christianity was interested mostly in securing the rights of laboring men as against the right: of money ; that he believed in an international organization whose purpose was to protect the rights of common labor ; that his invitation was issued ti "all of those who labor,” which is precisely the Socialist movement. I als found that the great fathers of the church had been men of the same character. and I took the position that it was impossible for me, as a Christian minister and man, to stand for anything but those things which stood for those ends

and that is why the same week that I was made a minister of the 1422 church I put in my application to join the Socialist party. My first

charge was in St. Marks Church, in the Bowery, New York; the rectie engaged me to conduct a Sunday service for the purpose of presenting the economic side of Christianity; and that service was devoted to the proposition that Socialism is the economic expression of Christianity. I held those service: every Sunday night for a year and a half.

Then I was offered the position of assistant editor of The Christian Sur cialist in Chicago, and cane here on February 12, 1914, and continued in that position as assistant editor for two and a half years. Then I was employe! as an organizer for the Middle West of the Intercollegiate Socialist Society, which is an organization of men and women to promote an intelligent study of Socialism in the schools and colleges throughout the country. Its members need not be members of the Socialist party, but opposition to Socialism musi be intelligent, and if a member intelligently objects to the principles of St cialism, well and good. As organized I secured desk room in the national of fice of the Socialist party and went in there on or about January 1, 1917. paying $5.00 a month rent. I renained there until June 20, 1917, when I was engaged as literature director of the national office of the Socialist party, it maining in that position about six weeks, retiring by mutual consent of Mr.

Germer and myself; I could not get along with him, nor he with me. 1423 We parted in perfect agreement to disagree.

I wrote the pamphlet “The Price We Pay" on April 27th. I hät. just seen an oflicial war film called “The Battle of the Somme," which was being sent around the country by the Government for the purpose of promotia recruiting. It showed ranks of men on both sides coming in battle line in the face of machine gun fire, men being shot down, caught in barbed wire and shot to pieces while hanging there, mangled and dying; all the horrors of batt, The idea of writing this brochure had been in my mind before, ever since 1 read the St. Louis War Proclamation, with which I was very much dissati fied, because I thought it was not scientific and not constructive. I disagrexi with its analysis of the causes of this war, so I dissented from the progress given there as not being constructive, and I opposed it when it came up in the meeting of the 26th ward branch of the Socialist party, which is my brand, my memorandum book says on the 21st of June. I objected to the phrase in the War Proclamation about branding the declaration of war by our Government as a crime against the people of the United States and that no greater dishoner has ever been forced upon a people than that which the capitalist class forcing upon this nation against its will. I objected to the expans***

nged into this war by the trickery and treachery of the ruling class." k the position that it was the stupidity of the working class which allows

the ruling class to have such power. In the phrase "in all modern history there has been no war more unjustifiable," I urged striking out “unjustifiable” and putting in “ inevitable.” For 50 years we Socialists been proclaiming this war was going to come just as it did, and about e time it came. I also opposed the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, as being not a contive program. I had advocated in the columns of the American Socialist arch, 1917, what I called a constructive program, I wrote this article sgested War Program." aid article was marked Defendants' Exhibit 47 and was read in evidence ords and figures as follows:)

DEFENDANTS' EXHIBIT 17.

Suggested War Program.

By Irwin Tucker.

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e can follow out the policy of the Socialist movement thruout the world dopting in the present war crisis a platform declaring for the following Immediate confiscation of all incomes in excess of $10,000 a year. Immediate levying of a 75 per cent inheritance tax. Immediate seizure by the government of all railroads; their operation

the present administrative heads, under the direction of a Secretary of roads in the President's cabinet. Payment of all stockholders their pro of the physical valuation of said railroads; and payments not to be made | the physical valuation has been completed, and no interest to be paid awhile. Immediate seizure of all mines—coal, copper, iron, zinc, lead, gold, silver, all other kinds; their operation by the government thru a Department of

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Immediate control of all food supply, by governmental ownership and ation of the storage warehouses. Passage of a law making the speculain foodstuffs an act of high treason under the Articles of War-namely, shable with death. Establishment of industrial democracy in all industries under governtal control, thru recognition of the unions as the medium between the rnment and the workers. ) every one of these emergency measures the Government and the labor es have already given careful consideration, and some measure of approon. They are feasible. They may be too late to stop the war. But at any they will take all the flavor out of this war, for those who have precipid it. They will make use of the sudden threat of war to force thru what have hammered on for a generation, and what now the crystalization of popular opinion will make it possible for us to accomplish.

Is it not time that we took a lesson from the developments of the world war, instead of shouting aloud either traditional formulas of historic or blind catch words of jingoism? Socialism Stands for Peace At

Only Price Which Will Buy It--Namely, Socialism. Preparedness or reparedness, enlistment or non-enlistment, is not the supreme issue beus. That Supreme Issue Is What It Has Always Been; Namely, Socialism Exploitation ; Industrial Democracy

Versus

Industrial Imperialism.

Witness continuing. That article was written a week prior to its publication. I was then just starting out on a lecture trip through Illiand Wisconsin; went to Beloit College and the University of Wisconsin ; I to the state capital and saw Senator Arnold, the Socialist member of the er house, and asking him to introduce the suggested program as a joint lution of the House and Senate, showing him a copy of this article. I told that I had discussed this with Mr. Engdahl and Mr. Germer and they had ight it would be a very proper way to draw up a constructive program, he agreed with me. He called a caucus of the Socialist members of the

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Senate of Wisconsin and laid this matter before them. They asked me typewrite it, which I did, and I have a carbon copy of the original typewritin made by one of the stenographers. The only difference between this and article as it appeared in the Socialist of March 31st is in the close. This res lution was for the confiscation of all yearly income of $10,000 and over for tt defraying of the expenses of war; for immediate taking over by the Unite States of all railroads; compensation to be made to the stockholders; for ima diate seizure of all mines and their operation without profit under the Fed eral Bureau of Mines; immediate seizure by the Federal Government of storage warehouses for food supplies, and the enactment of a law making the speculation in food supplies an act of treason; that dealings between the Government and the workers in all of the industries seized and operated the Government to be conducted through their organizations, with due date guards for the right of organization among those not yet organized; and that a copy of the resolution be forwarded to the United States senators and repre 8 ntatives in congress from Wisconsin forthwith. This was before war ka

been declared. (Document referred to marked Defendants' Exhibit 48! 1428 Thereupon said document was introduced in evidence in words and

figures as follows towit

DEFENDANTS' EXHIBIT 48.

" Memorializing Wisconsin Senators and Representatives to favor certain governmental policies in case of war.

“Resolved by the Assembly, the Senate concurring, that in view of the ap parent imminence of a declaration of a state of war, we hereby recommend to our senators and representatives in Congress the following war measures for their favorable consideration :

“1. The confiscation of all yearly incomes of ten thousand dollars and over for the defraying of the expenses of war.

"2. Immediate taking over by the United States Government of all railroads and their operation under a cabinet department; compensation to be made to the stockholders on the basis of the physical valuation of the railroads, said compensation to be paid after the physical valuation has been completed.

* 3. Immediate seizure of all mines and their operation without profit under the Federal Bureau of Mines.

“4. Immediate seizure by the Federal Government of all storage warehouses for food supplies; and the enactment of a law making the speculation in food supplies an act of treason under articles of war. “5. Dealings between the government and the workers in all of the indus

tries seized and operated by the Government shall be conducted through 1429 their organizations, with due safeguards for the right of organization

among those not yet organized, and be it further " Resolved that a copy of this resolution, attested by the proper officers of the Assembly and Senate be forwarded to the United States Senators and

Representatives in Congress from this state forthwith. 1430 Witness continuing This was introduced into the Senate and House of

the Wisconsin Lesislature, the Senate passing it with only two dissentins votes. I started to Washington on March 31st. I was later informed it passed the House, but I was not there at the time. It passed the Senate on March 2 1917. I came to Chicago and went to Washington as a member of the Socialis Peace Convention, which was called there for April 2nd, and on the train met: number of other delegates from Chicago and the Middle West. I discussed

this proposition with them and we all decided that if war came, as a 1431 peared probable, we would use every means to have this bill providing for

the conscription of wealth worked into the official program. I arrived in Washington about 10 A. M. on April 2nd. That night there was held in the convention hall in Washington the Emergency Peace Convention, composed of some 5,000 people from all over the United States, gathered there to protest against this country's entrance into the war. I was elected secretary of the committee on resolutions and I incorporated this resolution into the resolutions adopted by that body. Just before I was called upon to read the resolutions, we received word that the President had appeared before Congress and asked for a declaration of war. In making my report I stated that I had expected

and that it did not change, in fact made even more necessary the program h was here presented; that it was foolish to cry because we could not have , because my conviction had been right along that the only way this try could stay out of war was by becoming a Socialist Republic, and it was ready for that yet; and now the opportunity was in our hands to take ge of the war situation and force home the truths for which Socialism is. I presented the resolutions in an' address urging their adoption, and were unanimously adopted.

the following day I went to see Senator Robert M. LaFollette, also Repre itives Carey, Cooper and Stafford, all of Wisconsin, and laid before them

these resolutions which had been adopted by the Wisconsin Legislature. I asked leave of them to introduce them in the form of a bill to both

houses of Congress. I have here a copy of House Joint Resolution 37, h is the same as this joint resolution here. It was introduced into the er House by Congressman Carey of Milwaukee on April 4th. And I have a

of the Congressional Record containing Senator La Follette's bill, which ery much amplified and much better than the one I introduced ; it is in my iry. The nub of this resolution of mine was incorporated into the La Fol- bill. The bill was the subject of considerable debate in Congress but it ed of passage. It died in committee, as I supposed it would. I remained in shington two days, then went to New York; and laid before the Emergency imittee of the Peace Federation a resolution, quoting from Wilson's message \pril 2nd that we are glad to fight for the ultimate peace of the world and the liberation of its people, the German people included, and that we act v in opposition to an irresponsible government which has thrown aside all siderations of humanity and is running amuck. The resolution proceeded say that in these words the President made it plain that if the German ple shall establish a responsible government the cause of our entry into the r will be attained without the expenditure of blood ; referring to the hostility the British Court to the cause of the North during the American Civil War; ing Congress to send a message direct to the German Reichstag stating to

them that this war against the Imperial German Government will be 3 averted by the establishment of a responsible and democratic government

in Germany; that this appeal will prove that the President's declaration true and cement the loyalty of our foreign born citizens, and may attain hout the shedding of blood the whole professed object of our entry into the r; that we make this plea as Americans, undivided in our allegiance to the erican people as custodians of the honor of the world; that the President s himself suggested this course, backed by the alternative of war; that we do

want war, we want peace with liberty and justice; and urging all lovers of nce with justice to uphold the hands of the President by strengthening the 1 of Congress to appeal to the German Reichstag both by direct wireless mmunication and through the Swiss minister, that the German people themres shall make themselves free. On April 7, 1917, I left the City of New York and arrived in Washington out three o'clock the same day, and the declaration of war was signed by

President at noon on that day, so that I reached Washington when the intry was in a state of war. I went to Congressman Cooper and laid this fore him, and asked him if he thought anything could be done with it and said it was too late, because the President is in exclusive control of the

wireless; if we had had this yesterday we might have sent word over the 34 wireless to the whole people of Germany to hang the kaiser, and there

would be no war. He said, “It is too late, we are in it.” I said, “ Yes, guess it is too late.” He asked me to leave that with him and he would see at can be done, and as far as I know nothing was ever done. I went back to New York on Saturday arriving in New York late that night; t the following Friday and got back to Chicago on, I think, April 17th. I rote “The Price We Pay” that next week. It was first published May 5th in e American Socialist. My purpose in writing the pamphlet was to set forth wat I thought was the proper Socialist attitude, that war is caused not by e trickery of the ruling class, because they couldn't help it, but by the upidity of the working class for not having seen far enough ahead to fire g business and run the factories themselves; cut out the capitalists; not ll them, but make them work. I wrote it after having seen the ghastly war m “The Battle of the Somme," a cartoon of which in the Chicago Tribune,

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