ey were welcome, they were glad to have them there. He extended his eetings to the secret service men who were present but they were not welme. He proposed to read some clippings from newspapers. Most of the ppings concern the success of the Bolshevik movement in Russia, so he said. (Objection by counsel for defendants as incompetent, irrelevant, immaterial id not proper cross examination; overruled; Exception.)

2

Talked from eight to ten minutes. Mr. Tucker said that the DePont Powder ›mpany had bought $50,000,000. of bonds of the second Liberty loan; he said at meant that the children of the working men and their children's children ould be paying millions of dollars interest on that loan for years to comethat this country's entrance into the war was caused by the capitalist classes of this country who got us into the war, the same as the European countries, and the working men had nothing to do with the war, I they had to do was to bear the brunt and also pay the bills. He said that hat the pacifists had stood for in May, 1917, President Wilson had adopted r his slogan in December, 1917, without giving the pacifists credit for it, but stead of that, gave them a kick in the face. He said he expected to be rested before he left the meeting.

Cross-Examination by Mr. Stedman.

I arrived at the meeting at 8 o'clock and remained throughout the entire eeting. I remember every one that talked. I made a verbal report and no ritten report. I was requested by Mr. Schroth of the American Protective eague to attend that meeting. Tucker made no reference to the indictment at I remember. I joined the American Protective League October, 1917. Mr. chroth went with me. Mr. O'Toole, Manager of the Murphy Chair Company so accompanied us. I called at Mr. Clyne's office to discuss what had been id there. I gave Mr. Schroth my signed statement as to what was said. I w that statement two weeks ago at 112 W. Adams St., the American Proctive League headquarters. Schroth wanted to have me identify my stateent.

23

Redirect Examination by Mr. Clyne.

The American Protective League is an organization of American citizens who re sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to defend the nited States against its enemies inside or out.

Recross-Examination by Mr. Stedman.

I know one of the amendments to the Constitution of the United States is iving the right of suffrage to all classes, to all races, I don't recall any other. nd that is the document which as an American citizen I swore to uphold. me of the provisions of the bill of rights is that Congress has a right to delare war, and to levy taxes-it enumerates the rights of Congress, I thinks the ording is, duties, imposts and excises. I read the Constitution 25 years ago. don't know who organized the American Protective League or who its officers re in Chicago. I have never read the Constitution or Declaration of Priniples of the American Protective League. I don't know as it has any. Our eeting were not public, they are private, and they are secret. Our organizaion works in cooperation with the Government. The American Protective eague is not created by any law of Congress, nor of the State of Illinois, or any State in the union. It is a voluntary society. We have no tribunals, we pass no judgment on individuals. We get orders from somebody and obey them. I don't know who he cooperates with. I do not now who determines his judgment or the committees.

24

RED C. HILL, called as a witness on behalf of the Government, testified as follows:

Direct Examination by Mr. Fleming,

I attended a meeting at Wicker Park Hall on December 1917, at Chicago. Defendants Tucker and Kruse were present. I arrived at about 8:10 A. M. There were about 700 present. The audience ranged from children to men of 60 and 60 years old; there were quite a number of young men there. The neeting opened at 8:40 Kruse was the first speaker. He said in substance

688

Council of Socialist Conscripts.

Addressing, copying, and classifying lists

3 days time @ $3

550 two-cent stamps

This bill does not include the cost of envelopes and paper. "Paid

7/21/17

9.00

11.00

20.00

Serial No.

Serial Number

7111

being first duly sworn, do depose and say on oath, that on the day of 1917, I filed a notice with Local Board for Divis 689 No. appealing its decision on a claim for exemption filed by me w the aforesaid Local Board on the day of 1917.

I do further swear that the basis of my claim for exemption was that I ≈ a member of a well-recognized organization, organized and existing on ar before May 18th, 1917, whose principles forbid its members to take part i war, and that my membership in the said organization, the Socialist Party of America, Local Cook County, Branch does exempt me from military service under the provisions of Section 4 of the Selective Service An. I do further swear that it is my opinion that the Socialist Party of Americ is clearly an organization within the meaning of the said Act, and that to refue exemption to any member of the Socialist Party is a violation of said law and of the Constitution of the United States. It is inconceivable that the said law is to be construed as applying only to religious sects since the Constitution of the United States expressly forbids Congress making any law respecting the es tablishment of religion or the exercise thereof. The only test under the law

690

one can come on the point of deciding whether or not an organization.— religious, political or of whatever nature,-actually has principles that forbid its members to engage in warfare. That the Socialist Party of America is clearly such an organization has been proven in the affidavits schmitted by me to the Local Board in substantiation of my claim to be exempted. copy of which and of the full text of the documents therein referred to can be furnished for the inspection of your Appeal Board.

I do further swear that to engage in war is absolutely contrary to my prine ples and that my convictions are entirely and fully in accord with the principles of the Socialist Party of America aforementioned.

I do hereby bind myself, to notify at once the said Appeal Board of any change which might modify or alter, in any way, my claim for discharge and to report at once in person to said Appeal Board whenever the conditions entitling me to discharge cease to exist.

692

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 105, a short article found in the Milwaukee Leader on the editorial page, of August 23, 1917 entitled, “Abolish the Presidency.")

Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit i an article on editorial page column 1 page 6 edition of August 24, 1917, ened "Censoring God.")

Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 'from unnumbered page entitled "As Our Socialist Readers See It," from the st column of Milwaukee Leader, September 1, 1917, under subject of "Comment.")

} (Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 108, cartoon on editorial page of Milwaukee Leader, entitled “A iful Contrast" edition of September 5, 1917.)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit ), on behalf of the Government article found on editorial page of Milwaukee ader, of September 7, 1917, entitled "The I. W. W. Raid ".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit ) cartoon on middle portion of the page of Milwaukee Leader of Sepember 11, 17, entitled "Are you this kind of Patriot?"

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 1. article on editorial page of the Milwaukee Leader dated November 1, 1917 titled "Barrage Fire".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 2, an editorial found on editorial pag of Milwaukee Leader, December 5, 1915, titled "Be of Good Courage".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 3, an editorial found on the editorial page of the Milwaukee Leader of ednesday, December 26, 1917, entitled "Unfathohable Are The Ways".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's 14 Exhibit 114, an order signed by Adolph Germer, no. 5280, dated June 29, 1918, to Arbeihter Zeitung for printing and delivery of 25,000 copies of ay Leaflet.) (Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence as Government's exbit 115, a letter bearing date July 19, 1917, to Irwin St. John Tucker, Southest corner of Madison and Halsted streets, Chicago.)

(Whereupon counsel for defendants reiterated and entered their objections to 1 of the Exhibits heretofore entered in accordance with the rulings of the ourt; that objections may stand to any and all evidence admitted by the Court: ojections overruled; exception.)

(Said documents were thereupon by the Court admitted in evidence, marked overnment's Exhibits 105 to 115, both inclusive, and the same are in words nd figures as follows, to wit:)

It will be a very interesting experiment if, as it has been reported that they ay, the Russian people establish a republic in which there is no president. ow, before they adopt their national constitution, is the time for them to give erious consideration to this and many other questions. We fervently hope that hey will not fasten upon themselves such a habble horse of a constitution as we have in this country.

They have been doing some close observing and they are well aware that n the United States the president has appallingly dangerous powers. Except hat the length of his term of office is limited, he might just as well be an mporer. He has more power than most of the crowned monarchs. We are ublishing an article from the Republican dealing with this subject. We have recious little in common with the Republican, but we accept truthful statenents from any source.

The president, for example, can and does plunge the nation into a cruel war gainst its will. That is, he is allowed to conduct the foreign relations of the ation to suit himself, and, by his mistaken policy, to get the nation into a dilema hat results in war. This is one of the respects in which our nation utterly fails

o be a democracy.

All along the line, the president has too much power.

138525-19-VOL 2-16

This bill does not include the cost of envelopes and paper. "Paid

7/21/17

9.00 11.00

20.00

Serial No.

Serial Number

being first duly sworn, do depose and say on oath, that on the day of 1917, I filed a notice with Local Board for Division appealing its decision on a claim for exemption filed by me with the aforesaid Local Board on the day of 1917.

689 No.

I do further swear that the basis of my claim for exemption was that I an a member of a well-recognized organization, organized and existing on ani before May 18th, 1917, whose principles forbid its members to take part in war, and that my membership in the said organization, the Socialist Party of America, Local Cook County. Branch does exempt me from military service under the provisions of Section 4 of the Selective Service Act. I do further swear that it is my opinion that the Socialist Party of America is clearly an organization within the meaning of the said Act, and that to refus exemption to any member of the Socialist Party is a violation of said law and of the Constitution of the United States. It is inconceivable that the said law is to be construed as applying only to religious sects since the Constitution of the United States expressly forbids Congress making any law respecting the es tablishment of religion or the exercise thereof. The only test under the law

690

one can come on the point of deciding whether or not an organization.religious, political or of whatever nature,-actually has principles that forbid its members to engage in warfare. That the Socialist Party of America is clearly such an organization has been proven in the affidavits submitted by me to the Local Board in substantiation of my claim to be exempted. copy of which and of the full text of the documents therein referred to can be furnished for the inspection of your Appeal Board.

I do further swear that to engage in war is absolutely contrary to my princ ples and that my convictions are entirely and fully in accord with the principles of the Socialist Party of America aforementioned.

I do hereby bind myself, to notify at once the said Appeal Board of any change which might modify or alter, in any way, my claim for discharge and to report at once in person to said Appeal Board whenever the conditions entitling me to discharge cease to exist.

692

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 105, a short article found in the Milwaukee Leader on the editorial page, of August 23, 1917 entitled, "Abolish the Presidency.")

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 3 an article on editorial page column 1 page 6 edition of August 24, 1917, enled Censoring God.")

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 7 from unnumbered page entitled “As Our Socialist Readers See It," from the st_column of Milwaukee Leader, September 1, 1917, under subject of "Comment.")

3

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 108, cartoon on editorial page of Milwaukee Leader, entitled "A tiful Contrast" edition of September 5, 1917.)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 9, on behalf of the Government article found on editorial page of Milwaukee ader, of September 7, 1917, entitled "The I. W. W. Raid ".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 0 cartoon on middle portion of the page of Milwaukee Leader of Sepember 11, 17, entitled "Are you this kind of Patriot?"

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 1, article on editorial page of the Milwaukee Leader dated November 1, 1917 titled "Barrage Fire".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 2, an editorial found on editorial pag of Milwaukee Leader, December 5, 1915, titled "Be of Good Courage".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's Exhibit 3, an editorial found on the editorial page of the Milwaukee Leader of 'ednesday, December 26, 1917, entitled Unfathohable Are The Ways".)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence Government's 14 Exhibit 114, an order signed by Adolph Germer, no. 5280, dated June 29, 1918, to Arbeihter Zeitung for printing and delivery of 25,000 copies of [ay Leaflet.)

(Whereupon there was offered and received in evidence as Government's exibit 115, a letter bearing date July 19, 1917, to Irwin St. John Tucker, South'est corner of Madison and Halsted streets, Chicago.)

(Whereupon counsel for defendants reiterated and entered their objections to Il of the Exhibits heretofore entered in accordance with the rulings of the ourt; that objections may stand to any and all evidence admitted by the Court: bjections overruled; exception.)

(Said documents were thereupon by the Court admitted in evidence, marked overnment's Exhibits 105 to 115, both inclusive, and the same are in words nd figures as follows, to wit:)

It will be a very interesting experiment if, as it has been reported that they nay, the Russian people establish a republic in which there is no president. Now, before they adopt their national constitution, is the time for them to give erious consideration to this and many other questions. We fervently hope that hey will not fasten upon themselves such a habble horse of a constitution as ve have in this country.

They have been doing some close observing and they are well aware that n the United States the president has appallingly dangerous powers. Except hat the length of his term of office is limited, he might just as well be an mporer. He has more power than most of the crowned monarchs. We are publishing an article from the Republican dealing with this subject. We have recious little in common with the Republican, but we accept truthful statenents from any source.

The president, for example, can and does plunge the nation into a cruel war gainst its will. That is, he is allowed to conduct the foreign relations of the nation to suit himself, and, by his mistaken policy, to get the nation into a dilema that results in war. This is one of the respects in which our nation utterly fails to be a democracy.

All along the line, the president has too much power.

138525-19-VOL 2-16