Mr. WAY. We have constructed several earth levees faced with piling or railroad rail with woven wire fencing to attempt to control scour. In some places we have constructed some concrte blanket walls, but not to any great extent.

The CHAIRMAN. When were your local works begun!

Mr. WAY. Our water district was organized in 1939. Prior to that some local interests such as water companies and groups such as that had done some work.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you estimate had been expended by local interests on protective work from the time your district was organized up to this time?

Mr. WAY. In this particular location covered by the interim report? The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. WAY. I would only be able to estimate that, but I think it would be about $150 000.

The CHAIRMAN. Has that flood-control district expended any funds outside of that area?

Mr. WAY. In many places.

The CHAIRMAN. Where?

Mr. WAY. Both east and west of that locality. Our county floodcontrol district is divided into zones. Each zone sets up its own taxes to take care of its own problem.

The CHAIRMAN. How about farther west?

Mr. WAY. Nothing along the Santa Ana River, but in many places along the tributaries to that river.

The CHAIRMAN. As to these two tributaries that we have under consideration, what other amount besides the $150,000 mentioned has been expended?

Mr. WAY. In other locations?

The CHAIRMAN. Along those tributaries.

Mr. WAY. About what I have mentioned. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, you have given us the amount that the local interests have spent in the last 4 years for local protective works?

Mr. WAY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do those amounts include any W. P. A. funds allocated to you?

Mr. WAY. Those are local-interest funds entirely.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall be glad to have a general statement from you, and if you have prepared a statement you may file it for the record and give us the high points of the statement in your oral testi

I should like to concur in everything that has been said previously, because the statements that have been made by the Army engineers are correct and are our ideas of the problem.

I have an aerial map on the wall, and I would like to call attention to certain portions of that map. May I do that?

The CHAIRMAN. You may, sir.

Mr. WAY. This [indicating] is a aerial map. It was flown on March 12, 1943. These streets, that I hope you can see from there, run north and south; the others, east and west. This area to which I am pointing is the San Bernardino area. Right through here [indicating] is

the Colton area. The streams under discussion are Lytle Creek and Cajon Creek.

There has been some discussion as to the topography and the tendency to storms in that area. I would like to call attention to the fact that from approximately the mouth of the canyon back up for some 13 miles the gradient is almost 10 percent. That is the gradient of the channel itself. That means around 500 per mile, which of course is rather high. I understand the gradient of the Mississippi River from St. Louis to the Gulf is about 400 feet, which is about 4 or 5 feet to the mile.

The CHAIRMAN. It is about two-thirds of a foot per mile from Memphis down to New Orleans.

Mr. WAY. There are side slopes to these canyons, about 45 degrees. That is 45 feet to the hundred; my point being that if we ever have floods in the mountains, we will get great volumes of water immediately, carrying great volumes of debris out into the valley.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do Lytle Creek and Cajon Creek come together?

Mr. WAY. They divide in the Santa Fe yards in San Bernardino, and one goes around the edge of Colton and the other goes directly through the town of Colton.

I would like to call attention to the place at which I am pointing. Here is a rocky mountainside which is turning the stream to the south and the east; and I now point out the route of the Santa Fe Railroad and some of the Army installations mentioned by the general. They are right square in line with that. In 1943 this particular water course was moved half a mile closer to the railroads than it had been prior to that time.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the flood discharge of those two creeks where they come together?

Mr. WAY. About 40,000 cubic feet per second after they come together. That is about the amount at the time of the storm.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your low-water discharge at that point? Mr. WAY. Very, very much less; maybe a thousand second-feet. The CHAIRMAN. The slope is precipitous, as you have indicated, but when you reach the metropolitan district in the Cajon area, when you reach the plain, it is practically flat, is it not?

Mr. WAY. It is some 412 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. I mean, down here [indicating on map].

Mr. WAY. About 12 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the depth of the channel?

Mr. WAY. There are no confining channels. The banks are only 3 or 4 feet high.

The CHAIRMAN. What sort of channel do you have in this area. where those two creeks come together? About how wide is the stream, and how high are the banks?

Mr. WAY. At the place at which I am pointing the stream is about half a mile wide and the banks are only 3 or 4 feet high. When it gets down into town this easterly channel is somewhat protected with wire and piling. Through the main part of town it is somewhat protected in the same way, but it is entirely inadequate.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the natural stream bed through that metropolitan area? How high are the banks?

Mr. WAY. About 50 feet wide at the bottom, and the banks are 4 or 5

feet high.

The CHAIRMAN. The average height down to the mouth would be what?

Mr. WAY. Four or five feet.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed and make your general statement. Mr. WAY. It has been mentioned that we are in a wet cycle. I would like to show you a chart indicating the wet and dry years for 170 years in that area.

The CHAIRMAN. Your maximum floods were in 1943 and 1938? Mr. WAY. Yes, sir. Because of the features of this mountain area we get very severe storms. This chart shows the wet and dry cycles for approximately 170 years. It shows very definitely that we are in a particular cycle now that is something like 25 percent above normal and have been for 8 or 10 years. We are at the top or, rather, higher than the top, with no certainty that we are at the extreme height. We may have several more years of wet seasons.

The CHAIRMAN. What was your last wet cycle?

Mr. WAY. The one we know as our storm of 1916. That is the one to which I am pointing. It was only 5 or 6 percent above normal for a period of 5 or 6 years.

The CHAIRMAN. What about the last major one?

Mr. WAY. The last one before that was in the eighties. Prior to that it was almost prehistoric.

The CHAIRMAN. You have accurate records out there for 170 years? Mr. WAY. We have Weather Bureau records and United States Geological Survey records since 1870.

The CHAIRMAN. I knew you did not have any accurate records for 170 years, because California belonged to Mexico then.

Mr. WAY. They were gathered by engineers of the metropolitan water district.

I would like to call your attention to the severity and the intensity of the storms up in those mountains. Right on the floor of Lytle Creek in the mountains the rainfall of 1942-43 was 58.78 inches. Twenty inches of that fell in one day. Two and fifty-five one-hundredths inches fell in 1 hour, showing the intensity of those storms. The CHAIRMAN. That is a cloudburst, is it not?

Mr. WAY. Yes. I have a chart here which shows that of the entire amount of water than ran out of these canyons rather a large percentage came down in a 1 day's period. About two-thirds of the whole thing came in 10 days.

The CHAIRMAN. Have the local interests constructed any levees or walls of any kind in the metropolitan area below the confluence of those two creeks and down to the mouth of the creek and the Santa Ana River, through the metropolitan area?

Mr. WAY. The cities themselves over quite a long period of time, 15 or 20 years, have taken critical points on the curves and places of that kind and have put up piling and woven wire on it.

The CHAIRMAN. That is to prevent caving, is it not?

Mr. WAY. Of course, to prevent erosion, with a comparatively small amount of money.

The CHAIRMAN. Did the stream overflow the bank which you say is 4 or 5 feet high in that metropolitan area?

Mr. WAY. Yes. Colton and the yards of the Southern Pacific Railroad were filled up with sand and gravel.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any of those levees autthorized in your district in 1939 that have been built along the creeks in the metropolitan area?

Mr. WAY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Where are they located?

Mr. WAY. The channel to which I am pointing was built since 1938, and at Colton there was one built by our local interests. But they are not adequate by any manner of means; they are not large enough to take the capacity of the stream. The attempt was to just protect the banks as they were with a very small amount of money.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, to prevent erosion?

Mr. WAY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.

Mr. WAY. I think that covers pretty well the intensity of our storms; but I just want to call attention now to the fact that this area is in the end of the San Bernardino Valley which has a generally westerly direction, with mountains to the north, the east and the south. Through those mountains there are two passes, one through which the Southern Pacific Railroad enters California, and a pass to the north along Cajon Creek through which enter the Santa Fe and Union Pacific Railroads and also highways U. S. 91 and U. S. 99. Practically 90 percent of the traffic that comes into southern California has to come via both highways and railroads right through this area.

The CHAIRMAN. You are 60 or 70 miles from Los Angeles?

Mr. Way. About 70 miles; yes, sir; and about the same distance from Los Angeles Harbor.

The CHAIRMAN. When is your wet season and when is your dry season?

Mr. WAY. For a period of many, many years the wettest two weeks have been the last week in February and the first week in March. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any questions, Mr. Poulson? Mr. WAY. I have another chart here, sir."

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, I beg your pardon.

Mr. WAY. This one shows military establishments that the Army engineers discussed. In addition to them there are many things that are not entirely military but which are definitely tied in with the war effort. There is a great amount of housing to take care of the Army depot and air base, the bomb-loading plant, and various other activities in that area. Any stoppage caused by a flood through there would have a very definite effect on the war effort.

I just want to say that I have been told within the last 2 weeks by an Army man, who I think knows what he is talking about, that it is very possible that civilians will not be allowed to use any of the transportation around San Bernardino on account of the great volume of war materials that are going to be brought into that area this sum

mer.

I have with me a letter I would like to place in the record, dated January 29, 1944, from the California State Chamber of Commerce, which reads as follows:

DEAR MR. WAY: This is to advise you that the southern council of the California State Chamber of Commerce, composed of leaders in the fields of agricul

ture, industry, taxation, transportation and highways, and natural resources, as well as representatives of all local organizations in the 10 southern counties of California, has unanimously approved H. R. 3118 by Congressman Sheppard which seeks to eliminate the Lytle-Cajon Creeks flood menace.

This measure has received thorough consideration of the southern council's committees on transportation and highways and natural resources. Testimony was given the transportation and highway committee by the district State highway engineer and engineers from the Southern Pacific and Santa Fe Railroads that transcontinental rail lines, as well as major arteries of the Federal and State highway system, have been blocked twice during the past 5 years.

It is imperative, in the opinion of the committee, that immediate provisions be made for removal of this imminent danger, especially since transcontinental railroads are now carrying as much as 60 percent of their capacity in critical war supplies and that the proposed appropriation of $9,000,000 contained in H. R. 3118 is of prime urgency at this time. The recommendation of the committee as unanimously approved by the council is: "That the southern California council endorse and urge immediate passage of H. R. 3118 as a vitally necessary protection to transcontinental and highway transportation of critically needed supplies." Our natural resources committee, appraising the project in the light of other flood-control problems in this area, has also reported its full approval of H. R. 3118 as being of first importance to the protection of this section of California. The specific recommendation of the natural resources committee unanimously approved by the Council is as follows: "That we support in every proper way II. R. 3118 as an appropriation for the immediate construction of the Lytle-Cajon Creeks flood-control project."

Please congratulate Congressman Sheppard on his authorship of this important piece of legislation. We desire to be helpful and would be happy to be of any service by way of public education by the dissemination of factual information that may expedite early action on this vital measure.

Very truly yours,

HAL G. HOTCHKISS, Regional Vice President.

The manpower problem has been mentioned at times with reference to the possibilities; and I have a letter from the War Manpower Commission, United States Employment Service, signed by the local manager, dated December 10, 1943, in which he says [reading]:

With reference to your inquiry as to the labor supply for flood-control program contemplated for February 1944, as near as this office can judge we will have necessary labor of the various skills, such as bulldozer operators, shovel runners, oilers, dragline men, cement reinforced concrete workers in various skills, reinforcing rodmen, mixer operators, and other types customarily used in this work, in sufficient numbers to meet your requirements.

This information has been developed through organized labor sources, our open available file of workers and the preknowledge of projects of various natures within the county and adjacent areas that are gradually being completed and by the time you are ready for them there should be a very sizable labor pool to meet your demands.

The CHAIRMAN. You have them already out there, and you do not have to take any more from the Mississippi Valley out there?

Mr. WAY. That is what the letter says; yes, sir. My own information as an employer of men in our road department shows that we have many applications from men looking for work at this time

The CHAIRMAN. So that it is not necessary to transport them from other parts of the country there?

Mr. WAY. That is true.

I have another letter here from the same man, dated January 31, 1944, which I would like to read into the record [reading]:

Subject: Available labor for flood-control work, Cajon Pass and Lytle Creek, etc. DEAR MR. WAY: In reply to your inquiry of this date, which supplements Mr. A. W. Walker's, secretary of the San Bernardino County Chamber of Commerce, inquiry of December 1943 on the above subject. As of this date we have made