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see we have 6,151. You can see that during the depression the rat* of growth in number of schools establishing departments of vocational agriculture slowed up considerably. During the depression period there were a good many of our teachers who went over into other activities on account of getting better salaries. Therefore we had fewer schools established as you will note.

But recently there has been a large increase in the number of requests for Federal aid to establish new departments. We had over 600 new departments of vocational agriculture established in the schools lust year.

If you look at this chart, you will see that if we receive no more than enough Federal funds to carry the schools that we now have, the curve on this chart will flatten out.

But if we receive the amounts authorized under the (ieorgc-Deen Act something in the neighborhood of two or three thousand additional schools can be established because there are demands for them. We get word every few days of the increased number of schools demanding departments of vocational agriculture. People have realized what this type of educational training means to the hoys in high school and to the adult fanners.

Mr. Fitzi'atkk'k. l^et me ask you a question there. I am sorry to interrupt von. You say that the boys with an education used to leave the farm, hut that your Department wants to send them back. Would that tend to increase production on the farms?

Mr. LtSKK. Not necessarilv. Our program does not increase the number of farmers, but provides training for those persons who are going to form anyway.

Young men trained in vocational agriculture are interested more with economy in production and with proper marketing of the product than they are in increasing total production.

Our program encourages crop rotations, conservation of the sod, and a better balanced agriculture including the remoxal of «ubmarginal land from production throtitrh reforestation, etc.

Mr. Fn/.TAtRicK. Then according to your argument you would take acreage out of production?

Mr. Linkk. Yes. I believe suhmarginnl lands should be removed from production.

Mr. Firzi'ATRK K 1 know. But you just said that the Oflice of Education wants to fix up the soil and reforest it and other things If vim do that, you will take acreage out of production? I«n't that the idea?

Mr Linki- Yes; under certain conditions.

Mr. Fir*p\ihi< K. How, then, could you say that by sending back educated youth to agriculture they would bencht by it unless they increased the production'*

Mr l.isKi I said that it would increase the production per unit or acre, but there would he under the soil conservation program le*» acreage under production

Mr Fn/PMiiic K. That is jiM what I said If we increase the production per aire, they would have to take acreage out of production, woii'dti't they, in i.r.'-T riot to have a surplus?

Mr L'\k>. N ••

Mr Fm/i'\iiiii K. It >.ee::.s to me that you an' putting back acreage into productii n.

Mr. Linke. No, not necessarily, Mr. Congressman.

I happen to own a farm, and I know just what the farmer is up against. The idea is that he can produce on less acreage more product per acre. Then he can put some acreage into pasture, forests, and so forth, and be conserving the soil.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. Your experts might show the farmer where he ran produce more per acre. But the thing is that you cannot show him where he can find a market for it.

Mr. Rich. Wouldn't you be able to help the farmer a lot if you would prohibit a lot of this importation of farm produce from other nations?

Mr. Linke. Yes, insofar as they are competing crops or farm produce.


Now, here is something that Dr. Studebaker has already mentioned. We have about 10,000 rural high schools where it might be possible to establish departments of vocational agriculture and where it is really needed.

We have 6,151 rural high schools where departments have already been established under the appropriations given by the Congress. There are 10,000 additional schools which ought to have departments. Of this number 3,000 have already applied for new departments and actually want them. Ohio wrote in just a few days ago and said that the demand for new departments is overwhelming.

I woidd like to show you another chart on the potential need for Mtending vocational education in agriculture. This is the question about which you were asking. Tlus chart shows the number of farm boys from 14 to 20 years of age, both in school and out of school in the raited States according to the 1930 census.

There was a total of 1,178,000 farm boys in school of which number 203,199 were enrolled in vocational agriculture, which is about 17 percent.

Mr. Leavy. Is that the figure of 1930, or have you brought it down to date?

Mr. Linke. We used the 1930 census to indicate the total number of farm boys l>oth in and out of schools, and the number who are taking vocational ugriculture was secured from State reports in our files.

Mr. Lea\ y. Two hundred three thousand one hundred and ninetynine were the boys taking agriculture?

Mr. Linke. Yes, farm bovs.

Mr. Leavy. That is in 1936?

Mr. Linke. Yes; 1936.

Mr. Leavy. But this figure of 1,178,454 is the figure as of 1930?

Mr. Linke. Yes; the total number of farm boys in school according to the 1930 census.

Mr. Leavy. Then the figure would be substantially larger if you had the present number?

Mr. Linke. Yes; I think so, because there have been a great many farm boys who have been in the city and who have come back on the farms, you know.

Mr. Leavy. Then that percentage would be lower now?

Mr. Links. It would very likely be lower now.


Here is a very interesting thing: The 1930 census shows that there are more farm boys of high-school age out of school than there are in school. There were 1,348,000 farm boys of high-school age out of school us against 1,178,000 in school.

Our program provides part-time classes in vocational agriculture for these boys that are on the farm ami who are going to be farmer*.

Mr. Rich. May I ask you a question right there: What ages are those boys who are out of school?

Mr. Linke. We call it the high-school nge, usually 14 to 20 years.

Mr. Kitzpatiuck. Have they graduated from the elementary schools?

Mr. L Xkk. No, not nil of them. Some of them are graduate*. The great majority of them are boys who have never gone into high school.

Mr. FiTzr-ATHicK. How about those States which are longest in relation to compulsory education and the years that the child goe>. to school? What is the aire limit in those State?.?

Mr. Link*.. This varies from 14 to is among the different States.

Mr. KiT/.i'ATKit K. In those Metes t'uit make it compulsory for boys to go to school, what is the age limit?

Mr. Linkk. The nge limit varies. In some States it is IS and in some lower than that.

Mr. r'lm-Ai'KM K. You have l,.'US,s47 boys out of school?

Mr. Linki . Yes.

Mr. Fit/.i*vruic K. That is, over Hi years of age?

Mr. Linkk. They are between the ages of 14 and 20.

Mr. Km Ii. In other words, they are the lmvs that are out of school

thiil tire over the a :<• limit required 1>\ the Male t'-ex lim-l r.'!:. on ill el (m>i. Thev have •tttaii.ed 11 -.Ht a_*e hi'd tin y are the I toys tlr«t are over P e st ite re<|i'ir< nu ft-.'

Mr. iUcMiuir. Not neccssntily, but in r :r-.l areas the limit i- r..' so strictly enforced. Tin re is no one to ina'.e them go bm-k.

Mr. Km M In I'eti'i-xU ama if von were out of s.hool ;< or 4 ila\». you Would -;ee i.n oil.rer comiiig aioun 1 to get you.

Mr. Ijskk What was the Kjc limit there.'

Mr. Kich. Sixteen.

Mr Linkk Hut in some States they are not required to go to school after 14.

Mr. Hahvmakt They don't enforce it in the rural areas.

Mr. I,\xniMtrsov. Suite rural areas do.

Mr Kitf.i'xtkm'k. In New York, it i« Hi.

Mr. litMHHir-ax-. Noltody is required to go to high school in any State, are they?

Mr. Linki I think, in some of the States they are if they have not yet reached the compulsory age limit.

Mr. Laxiii».ktso\ I know that some of them have compulsory education in finishing elementary school That was in lieu of a certain number of years, having finished a certain numlter of years or finished elementary school, that was the end of it.

Mr. Linkk. Yes. I think it varies in the differ*nt State*.

Mr. La win Kt»on I didn't think that there were any States requiring anybody to go to high school.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. In our State they go to school until a certain age. Then, when they reach this age, they can receive a certain education as a continuation.

Mr. Linke. Here is an interesting chart to show you what becomes of the boys taking vocational agriculture in the high schools in some communities of certain Southern States. They go into various callings. Some go to college. The chart shows the percentage of those boys who actually go back on the farm, which is 46.2 percent. The number in occupations related to farming, such as milk testers, horticultural inspectors, and many other related occupations, is about 8 percent. The number in agricultural colleges is 2.8 percent. These figures show that practically 60 percent of the farm boys who study vocational agriculture go into farming and related occupations.

Now, if college teaching in agriculture is a good thing, why not put it in local schools where more people can profit from it. That is what vocational agriculture is designed to do, since everyone cannot go to college.

I want to show you a map of the State of Louisiana.

The green dots on this map represent the local schools where vocational agriculture is already established, and the red dots are those schools that are demanding or applying for departments.

Mr. Johnson. Let me ask you: If this appropriation is not increased, then none of those applications can be approved?

Mr. Linke. No, sir.

Mr. Johnson. You could not establish all of them even if the entire $14,000,000 were appropriated?

Mr. Linke. I don't think so.

Mr. Rich. Do you do any work now in connection with land grant colleges, so far as this Department that is established here in Washington is concerned?

Mr. Linke. The land-grant colleges train our teachers.

Mr. Rich. You brought out one good point there, and that is that the hoys that will go to these schools which you establish are the ones that have not completed their academic education; that they are educated in agriculture and they go back to the farms, and they stay on the farms. The ones that are educated at the land-grant colleges are now primarily teachers and do not go back to the farms.

Mr. Linke. They become teachers, they go into county agent work and into many other special lines, such as farm management. Sometimes they go into experiment-station work and come do go back to the farm.

The teachers of agriculture stay on the job the year around. They vi-it farmers and farm boys while at their work and they help them to solve their farm problems on the job.

Mr. Lambektson. I don't like to disagree with you, but we have a lot of boys finishing agricultural college who are down on the farms in Kansas.

Mr. Linke. That is true. I know there are a good many. Many have also been absorbed in the various governmental emergency agencies.

Mr. Lambert60n. But in the last 3 dry years they have taken hundreds of them o(T the farm and given them jobs.

Mr. Linke. That is true. The emergency agencies of the Government have taken many teachers away from us. In Texas they have taken over a hundred of our teachers because they can pay them better salaries.

We don't have the money to compete with these agencies in keeping those men as teachers. They have taken as high as 40 or 50 out of Oklahoma. They have taken quite a number out of Kansas. It is a real problem. Many of them would come back if better salaries could be paid.


Mr. Fitzpatrick. What is the average salary that you pay those teachers?

Mr. Linee. The average salary for the entire United States is $1,836.

Sir. Fitzpatrice. Do they get $1,800 in Kansas and $1,800 in Oklahoma?

Mr. Linke. Salaries vary among the States. The lowest salaries are in the North Central Stutes. They range from $1,800 up to $2,000, as an average among the several States.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. I was wondering if they were getting $1,800 or $2,000 in those States at present whether you could get them down in Texas unless you paid them more money.

Mr. Linkk. The best salaries I think, are paid in California.

Mr. Spanton. No. In New York.

Mr. Lambertson. A salary of .$ 1,800 in our rural sections is a pretty high salary. It is equal to what the superintendent of schools gets.

Dr. Studebaker. That figure is a national average. It varies all over the country.


Mr. Rich. May we have vour Home Economics Division now?

Miss Falloatter. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I would like to call your attention to one point before I take the situation as a whole.

A good case has been made out in behalf of trained workers in industry and on the farm. But to what avail would such training be if they were not able wisely to spend the money thnt thev earned for the upkeep of the home and to support themselves? After all, it is in this field of education that training is so badly needed.

This chart shows that in the country there are over 2S million home- That means 28 million hotnemakers are needing some educational Inlp. You will observe that that number is approximately n- mu< h as is represented by both trades and industries and agriculture put together.

I-a-t year in our pre-ent program, out of 2S million homemaker*. we were able to reach but I.VJ.OOO.

In addition, in the In-t few years under the emergency educational program many da— «*s have l>ccn organi/.ed in home roiiomirs. The State- are anticipating that there will Im- Ii gery great demand on the part of uomen that the-e cla—««s be taken over by a permanent agency, ami education i> a permanent agency which is in a position to continue the good work that hits l>een begun

The situation in relation to the high school or the day vhool program is shown in this chart The circle represents a total of 21,V>4 high schools in the country. Out of that number we have ao far

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