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I get many, many letters from these youngsters; and they think that nobody appreciates them. They think that they are not getting in school all that they ought to have. They don't hesitate to say so.

NEED FOR VOCATIONAL EDUCATION IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOLS

Now, I am wondering whether if vocational training were established in these high schools earlier than 16 or 17 or 18, if it were established about the time of 13 or 14, at the time when they start to go up Fool's Hill, as somebody said, when they think that nobody appreciates them, when they want to quit school if they had vocational training, it occurs to me that it might keep thousands of the millions of youngsters in school, where they ought to be today, who are now running away from school and otherwise leaving school.

Dr. STUDEBAKER, ('ongressman, we are all thoroughly convinced that your general theory is sound.

Ĩ education, which cannot be wholly separated from vocational educa. tion, is secured, in the process of learning a vocation.

One of the problems in family life is to keep the boy on the track. we say. All those problems are present in a well-organized school. We don't have football in the high schools of this country primarily for the purpose of giving physical stamina to our people. It is a morale builder largely.

We resort in organized education to many of the devices that we use in our families to intrigue and challenge and thrill, eren, our young people in order that we may bring them closer to those activities of greater value than the things that they see immediately ahead of them.

Therefore, from the kindergarten right on through, education is developing rapidly what we call craft work - industrial arts; not necessarily vocational work, at the age 11 or 12 or 13, but arts and crafts all sorts of things to attract these young people to the school and keep them in school long enough so that when they once have found themselves they can then begin at different levels, at different ages, I mean, to take more highly specialized vocational courses with this background of general education, in which arts and crafts have played an important part.

And I for one am willing to defend the policy of opening up vocational education opportunities to boys and girls of our high borila for the purpose of keeping them there, if for nothing else, is that is the thing that we find is sufficiently concrete and offers thein opportunity for the manipulation of materials and all those other activities that some people respond to much more readily than others.

William Lyon Phelps spoke before our forum here in Washington last night. He said that he had read all of Shakespeare's works before he was 12 years of age. How many of the men around this table did that? I didn't do it.

Mr. Rich How many ever read them?

Dr. SriDEBAKER. He is exceptional. Most people don't want to spend all of their high-school days reading Shakespeare or Virgil Nany, many boys and girls will stay in high school if they can hare some sports or some other physical or manipulative activity that will enable them to bridge the gap and cover those precarious years of early adolescence.

Then young people begin to settle down; then we can 9tart with vocational education. Some of us believe that if they learn to work they may, then, in adult life, acquire a good many other abilities through general education.

I keep asking myself all the time, Why do the 40 percent become so disinterested in school that they stop going to school? And 1 don't believe we are fulfilling our obligations to those stranded youths until we more and more answer that question with an organization of education that will not drive them away from school.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. What was the early life and circumstances of this party that you referred to? What was the financial condition under which he read all of those books?

Dr. Sttjdebaker. I think probably he was reasonably well fixed. He lived up in New England.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. A little better off than the average boy?

Dr. Studebaker. I imagine so. He had a very marvelous mind for that sort of thing.

COURSES IN HOME ECONOMICS

I think I mentioned this morning that of the 20,000 high schools in the country only about one-third of them have any courses in home economics. Last year we had requests for funds with which to assist in the establishment of home-economics courses in 1,600 additional high schools. I don't know what the figure stands at now.

I will ask Miss Fallgatter if she can tell you that.

Miss Fallgatter. The total is 2,643 requests for departments. But many supervisors made it plain when they sent in that number that they had on file, that these requests had come wholly unsolicited; that they had really done no promotional work. So there was a total of 2,643 requests on file January 1 for home-economics departments.

Dr. Studebaker. These red dots on this map of Kentucky represent the number of schools in Kentucky that now have courses in home economics.

Miss Fallgatter. As I remember, that is 91 in Kentucky.

ESTIMATE OF AMOUNT REQUIRED FOR THE THREE MAJOR VOCATIONAL

EDUCATIONAL ITEMS

Mr. Johnson. I wonder if Dr. Studebaker would mind making an estimate as to the minimum that he feels is absolutely needed in the three major vocational education items. If the doctor cares to study it, lie may put a statement in the record.

Dr. Studebaker. As nearly as I can gage the situation from the demands that are coming to our office, I should say that the schools of this country under the terms and regulations of the act would absorb next year 12 or 13 million dollars.

Mr. Johnson. Without a dollar being squandered or wasted?

Dr. Studebaker. Yes; because we always have a safeguard against the reckless use of money in a State, since the States and local communities have to put up some money in order to get Federal funds.

Then another thing that we should remember is this: That of any amount appropriated by the Federal Government those portions which are not used in the States are deducted from the next year's

allotments due the States. So that those unused portions would really come back into the Federal Treasury.

I think that of the $10,000,000 appropriated annually for vocational education in the past, approximately 95 percent was absorbed by the States. Is that correct?

Dr. Wright. It will be higher this year. It was 94.1 percent this past year. When conditions are normal the States use about 97.5 percent of their allotments.

Dr. STUDEBAKER. That States cannot spend more than the amounts available and since they budget their funds for authorized purposes, they are bound to fall below the entire allotment in their use of funds.

Dr. Wright. It has never exceeded about 97.5 percent, because there is always something left over when the funds are budgeted.

COST OF ADMINISTRATION

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Has the cost of administration increased?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Naturally it will increase because the program will be larger and more complex, but there is a relatively small amount asked for administration.

Mr. FitzPATRICK. What proportion of it is for administration?

Dr. STUDEBAKER, $73,000 is included in the estimates for administration. That is less than one-half of 1 percent, which is not a very large percent. The act authorizes $350,000.

When I was talking about administration, Congressman, I was including not sheer administrative activities, but some research, which is very much needed in order to get many of the facts that the people in the States need and that we need.

We have wrestled considerably with this problem. The President's committee is studying the matter. We have been before the committe and discussed the problem. I have discussed it there in much the same fashion that I have there.

There is obviously a need for more vocational education in this country. The population has increased. The school enrollments for the past 10 or 11 years have increased at an accelerated rate.

EXPENDITURES BY STATES FOR VOCATIONAL EDUCATION Mr. FITZPATRICK. Does your educational check-up show whether the States spend the amount of money that they are supposed to spend?

Dr. SI DH.BAKIR. Yes. We have accurate records coming back.

The whole problem is all a question of rembursement warevkience that the clommorations to be reimbursed have been conducted in accordance with the requirments of the state plans for vocational education, which in turn must be in aitonance with the law

Dr. WRIGHT. Tie Siates -pent i land var for eiery dollar of Federal moties that they resiplied.

Mr. FITZPATRIM O NI :nany of the States, even if they did not recense anything from the Federal Cosconuent, would spend it for Toontlemal education

Dr. SODYBA . Would spend some key?
Mr. FITZPATLIK. Yes.
Dr. SIDHAATH. Surely.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. And have spent it for years.

Mr. Lambertson. Why was it that they spent more than the Federal Government did?

Dr. Wright. They didn't get enough Federal money to match State money dollar for dollar. But they are trying to boost their program. They increased the States expenditures from $2.03 the preceding year up to $2.39 this past year, for each Federal dollar spent for the same purpose.

Mr. Lambertson. Under this new act will all the old schools as well the new ones get reimbursmeent oi will it be dollar for dollar?

Dr. Wright. I don't understand the question.

Mr. Lambertson. Under the George-Deen Act that means the old schools as well as the new?

Dr. Wright. No, sir. George-Deen funds should be used for the furgther development of the program.

Mr. Lambertson. Just for the new?

Dr. Wright. Under the Smith-Hughes Act the States must match Federal funds dollar for dollar; while under the George-Deen Act only SO percent of all expenditures must be matched.

Mr. Fitzpatrick. They can spend $5 of their own to every one that they get from the Government?

Dr. Wright. Yes. Some do. Massachusetts spent about 11.

Dr. Studebaker. Then, Congressman, you will recall that this George-Deen Act starts on the basis of a dollar of Federal money to 50 cents of State or local money; but after a period of 5 years the State must add to its portion until the ratio runs up again to a dollarfor-dollar basis. I guess the theory is that the State would be induced further to develop its own program.

Vocational Education In Agriculture

Mr. Rich. What relation does the Agricultural Department have to Education, and also what relation does your Department have to the land grant colleges?

Dr. Studebaker. Mr. Linke can discuss those two features.

Mr. Johnson. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Linke be permitted to make a statement.

Mr. Linke. I would like to state this in the beginning: Back in our days, back in the years when you and I went to school, when a boy got an education, he left the farm; and as a result of that we left on the farm an uneducated class of people. But the thing that we are trying to do in this work of ours is to turn back on the farm, if possible, an educated and trained class of people.

I think vocational education in agriculture will go a long way to avoid getting this country into what we call the peasant problem. There is no doubt in my mind but what we are confronted with this problem today, but if we can turn back on the farms of this country a trained and educated class of people, I think we need not fear for the agriculture of the future.

Now, I want to present some charts to show the growth of our program of vocational education in agriculture and the need for its further development. We have here a chart which shows the gradual development of our program from 1918, when we started with only 500 departments of vocational agriculture, up to 1937 when you will

see we have 6,151. You can see that during the depression the rate of growth in number of schools establishing departments of vocational agriculture slowed up considerably. During the depression period there were a good many of our teachers who went over into other activities on account of getting better salaries. Therefore we had fewer schools established as you will note.

But recently there has been a large increase in the number of requests for Federal aid to establish new departments. We had over 600 new departments of vocational agriculture established in the schools last year.

If you look at this chart, you will see that if we receive no more than enough Federal funds to carry the schools that we now have, the curve on this chart will flatten out.

But if we receive the amounts authorized under the George-Deen Act something in the neighborhood of two or three thousand additional school can be pstablished because there are demands for them. We get word every few days of the increased number of schools demanding departments of vocational agriculture. People have realized what this type of educational training means to the boys in high school and to the adult farmers.

Mr. FitzPATRICK. Let me ask you a question there. I am sorry to interrupt you. You say that the boys with an education used to leave the farm, but that your Department wants to send them back. Wouldi that tend to increase production on the farms?

Mr. LINKE. Not necessarily. Our program does not increase the number of farmers, but provides training for those persons who are going to farm anyway

Young men trained in vocational agriculture are interested more with economy in production and with proper marketing of the product than they are in increasing total production.

Our program encourages crop rotations, conservation of the soil, and a better balanced agriculture including the removal of submarginal land from production through reforestation, etc.

Vír. FITZPATRICK. Then according to your argument you would take acreage out of production?

Mr. Linku. YesI believe submarginal lands should be removed from production.

Mr. FurZPATRICK I know. But you just said that the Office of Education wants to fix up the soil and reforest it and other things If you do that, you will take acreage out of production? Isn't that the idea?

Mr Link: YR; under certain conditions. Ĩ educated youth to agriculture they would benefit by it unle they increase the provinction"

Vir LINKI I said that it would increase the production per unit or arre, but there wouki be under the soil conservation program lees acreare under production

Mr F1ZVAIRIOK. That is just what I said If we increase the provinction per lle're, t'py would have to take acreage out of princ. t1on, wouldn't thing in coridor not to have a surplus

Vir Linhi. Item

Vr FurARIA It wenion to me that you are putting back artre are into production.

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