schools, secondary schools, colleges, universities, and so forth, because the more we strike a general average the less use it is. If we take the average cost, for instance, for elementary schools, that is of no significance to publicly supported colleges and universities.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you not think that the elementary school and the high school is one of the most important parts of a child's education?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. I do; yes, sir.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you not think it would be important to know what it costs?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, I can give you that. We shall be glad to file such a report, taken from our biennial survey.

Per capita cost of education per pupil in average daily attendance for current expense, 1933-34

* Regular and vocational high schools for States that can give separate data.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you think you are in a better position to advise on the education of the youth of the land than some of the States in the Union?

- Dr. STUDEBAKER. No; I do not think we are as well equipped as some of them are. I think we ought to be much better equipped to advise all of the States than we are.

Now, take your State of New York, for example; we were asked to come up there to make a survey of the school-building problem in Rockland County, and I think if you go there you will find informa

tion from that survey now available to the people in Rockland County to use as they desire. I think you will also find that the people there appreciate it.

Likewise, the New Orleans School Board recently filed with me a request that we make a survey of the New Orleans public-school system. They had appropriated the sum of $10,000 for such a survey. Unfortunately, we were not in a position to do it. We have not the staff nor the funds available to do it.

INVITATION OF STATES AND COMMUNITIES TO COOPERATE

Mr. RICH. When you go into States for this purpose, do you go in at the invitation of the State departments of education, or do the local communities and counties extend the invitation without taking the matter up with the departments of their various capitals?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. They usually take it up with the State departments of education, or if they don't, we do. In the case of Rockland county, the State department was consulted, and agreed that a survey should be made.

Mr. RICH. They requested you to make it?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.

Mr. RICH. Was the survey made because of the fact that you had Federal funds for these local contingencies?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. No, in that case we had only one person available, who is a specialist in school building problems. It was a schoolbuilding survey that they requested there. We were willing to lend this person to Rockland County for a while, and Rockland County provided for the other expenses, the theory being that this person would then conduct the survey and be able to reach some conclusions that would be generally useful in advising many, many other communities in the country which have similar problems.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Would that be in relation to the building of the education of the children?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. The immediate problem there was the development of a school-building program.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. The question I asked you was what was it, in relation to putting up buildings or educational facilities for the children?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. They are bound together.
Mr. FITZPATRICK. Did they ask for both?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. That is what I wanted to find out.

Dr. STUDEBAKER. It is a question of studying the population trends, and the problem of reorganization of the curriculum. This bears directly upon the education of children-it makes a difference in the way you construct your school buildings, and the number you have, and the allotments for them. That was the problem involved up in Rockland County.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. But does that also include their method and their system whereby they were instructing and educating the children? Dr. STUDEBAKER. No.

Mr. LEAVY. For the purpose of following up the suggestion made by Mr. Fitzpatrick, could you supplement your statement with statistics that would, perhaps, bring us down to either 1935 or 1936,

showing the average per pupil cost in the elementary schools in the 48 States of the Union?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes. Reports for 1936 are now coming in, but we shall give you the latest available.

Mr. LEAVY. And then the average per pupil cost in the secondary schools?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.

Mr. LEAVY. And then the average per pupil cost in the institutions of higher learning?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir. We shall supply as complete information as is available.

ALLOTMENTS MADE TO STATES

Mr. LEAVY. Then, can you follow that up with the average that your Department is spending in each of those States? Is that available? Dr. STUDEBAKER. As you know, our office distributes funds for two purposes only-(1) vocational education and (2) land-grant colleges. We will insert a summary statement to show these amounts. Mr. RICH. They have a good part of it already here in this chart [indicating].

Dr. STUDEBAKER. I can give you all of the former, but the money of the general division of the Office of Education is not spent in the States. It is all spent here in Washington. The amount this year is about $348,000.

Mr. RICH. That is true of the elementary schools, but when you get into the secondary schools with these special functions, industrial education and agricultural education, you match the amount spent by the States?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. That is not quite right. The States or local communities match the Federal funds expended. We can give you the exact allotment to each State. The States are sent that money after the allotment is made.

Mr. RICH. It seems to me, it would be very valuable and very instructive to have the figures on each of the States in the Union on that.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. When you say you make an allotment to the States, is it not to the counties and municipalities that the allotments go?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. No; the allotments go to the States. The distribution within the States is made by the State boards for vocational education.

297, 733. 30

80, 666. 19

378, 399. 49

609, 342. 28

93, 744. 01

703, 086. 29

60, 132, 76

72,070. 20

132, 202.96

48, 424. 97

71, 465. 93

119, 890.90

269, 629.03

79, 872. 49

349, 501. 52

138, 345. 63

76, 373. 07

214, 718. 70

182,868.51

77, 048. 97

259, 917.48

VOCATIONAL SCHOOLS IN CITIES AND COUNTIES

Mr. FITZPATRICK. On vocational training, I have heard it argued that certain counties and municipalities that had the money to match Federal money got those vocational schools; is that true?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir; it is true if the State handles the problem that way. If State funds are not available to match the Federal funds it must be handled that way. Under the Federal law the State accepts the funds, and then the State distributes the funds to the local communities. Most of the States have State vocational funds. to match at least part of the Federal funds.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. As I understand it, often very poor counties. that need vocational training the most do not have the money to match the Federal funds, and they cannot get it. Therefore, the Federal funds go to rich counties and municipalities. Is that correct?

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, it is. If the State does not match its allotment of the appropriations made by the Federal Government, local communities must do so to obtain the Federal funds.

COOPERATION OF STATES WITH THE OFFICE OF EDUCATION

the

Mr. RICH. I am trying to get the policy of the Office of Education to show how we coordinate with the various States, and how the various States are desirous of working with the Federal Office of Education. I would like to have your policy definitely outlined, so far as your handling of the educational systems of the country is concerned, so that I can see that harmony prevails, or that you are working harmoniously with the various States.

Dr. STUDEBAKER. Perhaps one of the ways in which I could help to make the answer clear is by the chart that shows some of the publications of the general division of education and of the division of vocational education.

SOURCE OF INFORMATION TO THE STATES

The chief source of information for the States is based on research which we conduct, and which eventuates in publications that are made available to the States for such use as they wish to make of them. Such research and publications are in fields of guidance, instruction, teachers' problems, problems dealing with exceptional children, problems dealing with youth, et cetera. We have just recently put out these six publications on youth [showing series]. We have some little folders here showing just what they are, and I think they will illustrate what I refer to. This one here happens to be one on "Community Surveys." We tried to bring together all we could find out about the ways in which communities had attempted to survey their youth problems, and then we brought all of the data together and made it available to the country. The other publications include: How Communities Can Help; Leisure for Living; Education for those out of School; Vocational Guidance for Those Out of School; and Finding Jobs. Here is a list of them.

Here, for instance, is a publication on scholarships and fellowships. What provisions, for instance, do the higher educational institutions of the country make for scholarships and fellowships? We gather information on that problem, try to make it significant in writing it up, and then make it available to the whole country.

PROBLEMS ON NEGRO EDUCATION

We deal also with problems of Negro education. We have one man in our office who is a Negro and is a specialist in the problems of Negro education. He is constantly working in that field.

We have one man in the field of secondary education, dealing largely with problems of organization and administration.

We have one man in rural education.

We have one woman working in the field of the problems of excep tional children, the mentally defectives, cripples, and partially seeing children, and those who are hard-of-hearing. We just have one person on that phase of our work, and there are millions of those children in the United States today.