put it in as a separate bill. It is education pure and simple and is an absolute par with other subjects. METHOD OF HANDLING IN STATE OF NEW YORK Mr. FITZPATRICK. Isn't that already in the schools today in New ork State? Dr. CLARK. Surely. They are doing a very fine thing. Dr. CLARK. There are now nine States in the whole country that ve a department of music. New York is one of them. There is a ry splendid director in Pennsylvania, also in Ohio, and now there one in Virginia, and another excellent one in Delaware. But there e only 9 out of the 48 States that have made such provisions. To y way of thinking, Mr. Chairman, a bill is wrong. It would single it music and fine arts as something outside not a part of education hereas it is a definite integral and vital part. We might as well put a bill saying that we favor teaching arithmetic in the schools, or at we think there should be a special bill providing that the children all get instructions in language or spelling. Mr. LEAVY. The point that Mr. O'Neal makes is this: The Budget what largely binds us. Either we grant it or we reduce it, or we an increase it. You see your request implies the necessity of inreasing it for a specific purpose; and then that specific purpose would ecome legislative. If the Bureau submitted a budget and broke it own and howed a portion of it was to go for this purpose, then we ould exercise discretion and either grant it or deny it. But the nfortunate thing about it is that this break-down does not contain his item. Mr. LAMBERTSON. The Commissioner of Education, outside of the ocational, doesn't do anything in any other branch of education. STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES P. MCGRANERY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA Mr. MCGRANERY. It happens that Dr. Clark lives in the district that I represent. I hoped to be here before Dr. Clark commenced, to advise you gentlemen just what her mission was. I wanted to give you some little of the background of Dr. Clark in connection with this matter. Dr. Clark has been identified with music in an educational sense for more than a half century. She organized the National Educators Association or Conference some 30 years ago. Her modesty perhaps would not permit her to give you this information that I can give you. Her standing in the musical world is such that this Music Educators Association designates her as the "Mother of the Conference." She is now connected with the Victor-R. C. A. I thought that out of this wealth of experience that she has she would be very helpful to the committee. I did not have an opportunity of speaking to her in connection with her problem or why she was coming up here other than that last night I had a telephone call saying that she would be here. I contacted her at her hotel today. I gather from what you gentlemen have said that you are in a p tion where you are dealing with the Budget and an appropriation, it. apparently what Dr. Clark has in mind is some departmental mate Mr. O'NEAL. Dr. Clark made a very interesting and a very ind gent statement to us. But, unfortunately, as members of the S committee on Appropriations, we are not in a position to do anythin about it because it is not included in our budget. However, persona I would be very much interested in seeing Dr. Clark go ahead w the matter in some way so that all of us can cooperate. So far as t committee is concerned, this is hardly the proper place to come. Mr. LAMBERTSON. It is not within our authorized scope. Mr. FITZPATRICK. This is where we must have the Committee Education report some bill. Mr. O'NEAL. Or someone down there under their general authori might do it. But so far as we are concerned, it would be legish and it would be subject to a point of order. Dr. CLARK. We are not asking any great special work; it is m to gather statistics, put them together, and then distribute the It is research work primarily, then advisory. We are not concerta now with the professional building up of large art or music scho That has been taken care of. But it is for finding out what has be done and disseminating that knowledge. Mr. O'NEAL. And making it usable? There is one point, however, that I might bring out. Some of you may be familiar with this fact. As an industry did you k that music ranks third-oil, steel, and music? There are hund of thousands of people engaged in it, and our boys and girls are get into it. They go into the music stores, into the publishing, the man facture of band and orchestra instruments, and radio, and so And Heaven only knows how many hundreds of thousands of pep are employed in the making of music. It is one of the greatest vocational educational subjects, as well as the greatest of the ar We are interested in seeing that that information on the better tea ing of music and art, the extent to which it is being taught may available. Two-thirds of the radio programs which have gone over the air were music and about half of it is wasted as to education. results. The children of the country cannot understand it because their ears have not been trained to hear intelligently, this language. be We have no ax to grind. None of us want to ask anything, nobody wants a job or anything like that. We want to see tha music is carried to the children in the rural sections where they ca get the benefit of it and so that they may understand it. Every child must have the opportunity to sing beautifully, perform acceptably and listen intelligently to the great music of the world. If bill is necessary then we should take steps to introduce such a bi in this Congress. Thank you. Mr. O'NEAL. Thank you very much, Dr. Clark. TUESDAY, APRIL 13, 1937. NCREASE IN SALARY FOR CUSTODIAL EMPLOYEES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES I. STENGLE, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION of GovernmENT EMPLOYEES Mr. O'NEAL. Mr. Stengle, we will be glad to hear you at this time, but first please give your name and position to the stenographer. Mr. STENGLE. My name is Charles I. Stengle and I am president of the American Federation of Government Employees. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have only one or two matters that I want to take up with the committee. As you know, I am president of the American Federation of Government Employees which is affiliated with the American Federation of Labor. Among our members are numerous custodians in the Department of the Interior. Some weeks ago it was my privilege to appear before the House Subcommittee on Appropriations for the Post Office and Treasury Departments to speak in behalf of the very poorly paid custodians in the Government service in these Departments. At that time I was able to persuade the committee to add an increment of $60 per year, which is the smallest increment in the service, in order to give them some little additional pittance to meet the high prices and high cost of living. I have endeavored to secure from the Department of the Interior, and I have the information both as to the minimum and the average pay of the custodians in the Department of the Interior. EMPLOYEES WORKING IN CUSTODIAL SERVICE OF INTERIOR DEPARTMENT The total number of custodial employees working under the Department of the Interior in Washington, D. C., totals 4,718. The total number of custodial employees in the National Park Service in Washington, D. C., totals 4,039. The total number of custodial employees in St. Elizabeths Hospital totals 492. The minimum rate of pay for custodial employees in the Department of the Interior, Washington, D. C., amounts to $1,080 per year, from which the poorly paid, but very loyal employees, holding important positions of custodians of Government property, are compelled to try to raise their families and educate their children. The average pay when promotions have been considered, and this information I am giving you as coming from the official department records, is $1,272.50 a year. I also might add that the minimum rate of pay for the National Park Service custodial employees in Washington, D. C., is $1,080 per year. AIM OF GOVERNMENT TO HELP EMPLOYEES TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVI CONDITIONS Now we all know that the general aim of the present administr tion is to give the poorly paid employees a better opportunity work out their living conditions and to make life easier for ther families. I do not want to insist upon a large increase, because I know the Government cannot afford it at this time, but I do ask this committe to add an increment of $60 apiece to these custodians in the Interi Department, which also includes the National Park Service and the St. Elizabeths Hospital. In conjunction therewith I want to call attention of the commit to the fact that in St. Elizabeths Hospital we have remaining, the only one left in the Government service, that is the custodial serv in the city of Washington who have to pay for their own uniforms. Way back in 1923 when I was a Member of the House I had a pleasure of introducing the first amendment to an appropriation to put uniforms on the custodians in the Library of Congress. S that time we have been able year after year to put uniforms on cũtodians in other services, so that now we have left only those in Elizabeths Hospital. Mr. LEAVY. The custodial hospitals get subsistence. Mr. STENGLE. Yes and no. They get it, and they are charged for Mr. LEAVY. You say their minimum pay is $90 a month. Is that with subsistence? Mr. STENGLE. It is $90 with subsistence. In other words, s sistence is included in the base pay. In many hospitals like Elizabeths a deduction is made for subsistence from the annual salar as my friend from the Bronx will remember when we appeared on appropriation for the Veterans' Hospital in the independent offices b and we tried to relieve that situation. When I mention the salary I am mentioning and including in what is deducted for subsistence, quarters, and laundry, or we ca that Q. S. and L. That is deducted from their salary and it amounts to about $370 a year. Many of these are married men who are living in their homes ou side, but they are compelled to stand for deductions for service an for food they do not get. Mr. LEAVY. I am all in sympathy with your pay measure if it possible to make it. Mr. FITZPATRICK. I spoke to Dr. Cammerer, the superintendent the National Park Service, and he seemed rather friendly to this increase of $60 a year per custodian. Mr. LAMBERTSON. It is the same thing that is going on in the other departments. Mr. STENGLE. Yes; and there is no reason why it should not g into effect in the Interior Department. REPORT ON CUSTODIAL EMPLOYEES IN FIELD SERVICE I have received a report from Mr. Burlew, and know what I am doing, and am only asking for the least increase we could ask, which is $5 a month, which will buy bread for their families or give a little pleasure to their children who perhaps have practically nothing. Mr. FITZPATRICK. We would be glad to have you put that letter in e record. Mr. STENGLE. The letter I received from Mr. Burlew is as follows: DEPARTMENT OF THE INTErior, r. CHARLES I. STENGLE, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR MR. STENGLE: I have received your letter of March 25, requesting formation regarding custodial employees of the Department of the Interior. The data requested are not available for the field service, and we do not have e personnel necessary to assemble the information, especially as you request at it be furnished by March 30. I hope that the following information, covering e Interior Department in Washington, D. C., will meet your needs: Total number of custodial employees working under the Department of the Interior in Washington, D. C. Total number of custodial employees in the National Park Service, Total number of custodial employees in St. Elizabeths Hospital Minimum rate of pay for employees at St. Elizabeths Hospital.. Average rate of pay for custodial employees, Department of the 1 Per annum. Sincerely yours, 4, 718 4, 039 492 1 $1, 080 1 $1,080 1 $1,080 1 1 $1, 272. 50 E. K. BURLEW, Administrative Assistant. Mr. FITZPATRICK. Have you any idea how much it would cost to ake care of all those employees? Mr. STENGLE. No; I do not. I will try to get that information. in his letter Mr. Burlew says: The data requested are not available for the field service, and we do not have he personnel necessary to assemble the information, especially as you request hat it be furnished by March 30. I hope that the following information, covering the Interior Department in Washington, D. C., will meet your needs. I do not know what it will be, but I do know that it is out in the field, and we also have it in the District of Columbia. In other words. the Interior Department custodial service outside of the city of Washington is only in small numbers as we go around, except possibly in your own city (Mr. Fitzpatrick). Now, in a number of the cities we have a lodge and many times it is made up of the National Capital Park employees, and I think as far as their numbers go it is in the neighborhood of 1,000 in the city of New York, that is metropolitan New York. However, it won't amount to enough in the total to make any great dent in your appropriation, and as I say, we got it through both the Post Office and the Treasury Departments with the consent of the Departments, and we have heard of no objections being raised in this Department. We have asked simply for a little relief owing to the excessive cost of living and the fact that many of these employees are men of family who are trying to keep their little homes together, and I hope that you will be able to do something. It is the smallest amount that I can ask for. |