Mr. HYATT. Now, just sketching the project very briefly, with reference to this map, there is being built a large water storag reservoir at the northern end of the Sacramento Valley, known s the Kennett Reservoir. The dam will be over 400 feet high, wil hydroelectric power plants below the dam. The water of the Sacr mento River will be regulated at that dam, and allowed to pas through power wheels on down the river. The reservoir would be used for flood control, in the first instance, flood control by reserves having now been demonstrated to be successful. Navigation wi also be vastly improved by this project.

In fact, Congress authorized this project 2 years ago, and author ized an appropriation of $12,000,000 for it because of its flood enttrol and navigation value in the Sacramento Valley. On being reg ulated, there will be sufficient flow in the Sacramento River entire to wash out the salt in the delta, thereby rescuing this 400,000 acre of valuable lands. The industrial trouble will be cured by a shor canal, costing about $2,500,000 to $3,000,000, which will take the water out of the fresh-water delta and transport it around the industrial area.

Then comes the crux of the whole problem, to get this fresh water from the Sacramento Valley south into the San Joaquin Valley, an that was a very intricate and difficult engineering problem. Afte many different trials, it was specifically worked out as shown on this map [indicating], to use the channel of the San Joaquin River par of the way and the canal the rest of the way, pumping 3.000 cubic feet of water a second for a lift of 160 feet. The energy cost wonk be $1.18 an acre-foot, and the operation allotment, and so fort another dollar, making it about $2.20 an acre-foot to pump tha water that distance, which is about one-third of the cost the farmerdown in the stricken area are now paying for water.

Another dam will be built on the San Joaquin River, right back of the city of Fresno. This is called the Friant Reservoir, and from that, large-sized canals will be built north and south, to serve the million acres which is in distress in the San Joaquin Valley.

The project involves the purchasing of water rights on secondclass land, pasture land, so that its immediate effect will be to retire 250,000 acres of submarginal land which is now being irrigated. S far as bringing in new land is concerned, the immediate effect of this project will be to take out a quarter of a million acres of land, and then over the next generation small amounts of new land may come in, but very slowly.

Mr. RICH. Does the Federal Government own any land in this valley?

Mr. HYATT. It owns land on the west side, but not in this section we are speaking of.

Mr. RICH. Are there any great, large landowners?

Mr. HYATT. No, sir: there are on the west side, but this green (area) here is all small holdings.

Mr. RICH. Will there be any liability on the Federal Government for developing the Central Valley project, whereby the landowners that are now in the central valley will have any comeback on the Federal Government if they make purchases or contracts for taking water from this central valley project, whereby the Federal Govern

nent will, anyway, be required to guarantee always, and at all times, supply of water?

Mr. HYATT. I cannot conceive of such a thing. I cannot see how nybody could guarantee, at all times, a supply of water.

Mr. RICH. They had a program or project up in Montana, because of certain advertisements, they thought the Federal Government was responsible to furnish, at all times, water, because they had inserted in one of these contracts that they had an irrigation project for that particular land.

Mr. HYATT. The Government is not selling any land, sir.

Mr. RICH. But is there going to be any responsibility upon the Federal Government, in any way, to furnish, for all time, water upon this land that you are now going to irrigate; and can the people of the central valley come back on the Federal Government at some future time, because of a shortage of water in the_Sacramento River, for not being able to control the water in San Joaquin Valley?

Mr. JOHNSON. Have you no irrigation districts down through there?

Mr. HYATT. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. And will not those districts contract with the several agencies for the enlargement of the use of water?

Mr. HYATT. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. And the responsibility for furnishing the water there, of course, would be the districts to the individuals?

Mr. HYATT. That is the way it will work out.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. In other words, there will not be any legal obligation, insofar as the Government is concerned?

Mr. HYATT. I cannot conceive of how there might be any legal obligation upon the Government.

Mr. JOHNSON. That is, the Federal Government does not sell the water to the individual?

Mr. HYATT. I do not believe the Government will sell water to the individual.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. No; but it agrees to furnish them with water. Mr. HYATT. The contract, as I see it, would be to sell a given irrigation district so many thousand acre-feet of water for so much money with no guarantee of anything.

Mr. JOHNSON. There is no contractual relationship between the Government and the individual water user?

Mr. HYATT. I do not think so, sir.

Mr. RICH. If it is completed, will it be up to the Bureau of Reclamation to make all of the contracts for water?

Mr. HYATT. That is contemplated, sir; and it is possible that the State of California will contract with the Bureau of Reclamation. and that the State of California will make the contracts with the individual districts.

Mr. RICH. And will the State of California guarantee to the Federal Government that this money is going to be paid back?

Mr. HYATT. The contract is not executed yet.

Mr. RICH. That is the intent and purpose of all of the Members of Congress from California, and the people of California, that that is to be the case?

Mr. HYATT. Well, I do not know what has been put up to th Members of Congress, but it is being worked on by the Secretary of the Interior and these California agencies now.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Hyatt, I have suggested to the member that it is a little unfair to ask you to answer for the Members of Congres in Mr. RICH. I thought he had been in conversation with them. They g are all here, and I thought that, rather than asking 15 Members that question, it would be a whole lot more simple, because, as I understand it, he is the spokesman for the people of California.

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. Might I have the courtesy of having the ques tion you asked, Mr. Chairman, asked again, and the answer repeated, as I did not quite get it?

Mr. RICH. I understood from the engineer that the State of Cali fornia was to make the contract with the Reclamation Service of the Federal Government, and it was the intent and purpose of the State of California to guarantee to the Reclamation Service that this money would be paid back in full, and that the State of California would guarantee the account.

Mr. HYATT. If I conveyed that idea it was incorrect. One entity may contract with the Secretary of the Interior to make the repay ments; if so that entity will in turn make individual contracts with many districts.

Mr. RICH. Do you not think it would be the best thing to do-te have this contract drawn so we know just how far we are spending the money of the Federal Government on behalf of the State of California? If you had the contract drawn we would know what it would be.

Mr. HYATT. Yes; that is exactly right; but it cannot be executed until the Secretary is empowered to enter into a contract with this kind of agency, which he cannot do today.

Mr. RICH. Who will be responsible for liquidating this debt of the Federal Government?

Mr. Buck. Mr. Chairman, may I read from the act, the appropri ation bill of last year?

The Central Valley project, California, for continuation, $6,900,000 to remain available until June 30, 1937, of which $6,000,000 will be available for the con struction of the Friant Reservoir and irrigation facilities therefrom; the San Joaquin Basin, $250,000 for administrative expenses, etc., for the same purposes as those specified for the projects included in the Interior Department Appro priation Act for the fiscal year 1937, under the caption, Bureau of Reclamation, and to be reimbursable under the reclamation law.

It is not my understanding that the State of California has any thing to do with this, at all, except that the State water authority is being used as an agency of the Bureau of Reclamation to acquire some rights-of-way, water rights, and so on.

And as a matter of fact, Mr. Hyatt, is it not a fact that the State water authority does not enter into this picture, at all; that the work will be performed by the Bureau of Reclamation, and the money will be reimbursable to the Bureau of Reclamation by the Irrigation and Reclamation districts that enter into contracts with it?

Mr. RICH. But the State of California will be responsible for the irrigation and reclamation districts that enter into contracts with it, or with the Bureau of Reclamation, as residents of that particular section?

Mr. HYATT. These are municipal districts, subsidiaries of the

tate.

Mr. BUCK. But the State, itself, as I understand it, has no auhority whatsoever to enter into this picture. It is intended to be, 1 my opinion, and I think I speak for all of my colleagues in Conress, that it is intended to be à Federal project, reimbursable under he reclamation law.

Mr. HYATT. Absolutely. That is the position. There is no quesion about that, at all. It is possible that the State may undertake he collection of the money for the Federal Government.

Mr. BUCK. A State agency may act as the agent of the Bureau f Reclamation, but it is not responsible for the work of construcion, for repayment, or for the sale of water or power that is deeloped. These remain in Federal control.

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. The water authority of the State of California vas created by act of legislature for the purpose of financing and onstructing the project as a State project. When the project was aken over as a Reclamation Bureau project, this left the water authority of California without any jurisdiction whatsoever in the project, with the exception that the Reclamation Bureau has desighated it, from time to time, to do certain duties, as they might designate an individual or some other commission. But as far as he water authority of the State of California having any jurisdicion as to any sale of water, water power or other revenues, they have no authority under the Reclamation law.

Mr. HYATT. That is correct.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. May I ask Mr. Englebright a question? Did I understand you to say that, when the State gave up this project, they gave up the proposition of trying to irrigate that land? Did I understand you to make that statement?

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. No, they never gave it up; they did not undertake it.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Did they ever start that project, whereby they expected to irrigate that land?

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. No; they simply had an act of the legislature, which would give them the authority to, had they been able to finance it.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Why would not they do it?

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. Because of bad financial conditions in the country, the State was not able to finance the project, and it was brought here under the Emergency Relief Acts, and finally put under the authority of the Bureau of Reclamation, and it became one of the projects of its type that are being carried on in different sections of the country.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Did the State try to borrow money from the Reconstruction Finance Corporation?

Mr. HYATT. No, sir; from the P. W. A.

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. From the P. W. A., at one time, but not from the R. F. C. STATION

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You wanted a grant?

Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. Yes.

Mr. RICH. Why did you not try to borrow the money from the Reconstruction Finance Corporation?

Mr. HYATT. Well, I do not know what has been put

Members of Congress, but it is being worked on by the Secretar & the Interior and these California agencies now.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Hyatt, I have suggested to the men,teraz is a little unfair to ask you to answer for the Members of

Mr. RICH. I thought he had been in conversation with then are all here, and I thought that, rather than asking 15 M that question, it would be a whole lot more simple, becae, understand it, he is the spokesman for the people of Califor Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT. Might I have the courtesy of having tion you asked, Mr. Chairman, asked again, and the answer as I did not quite get it?

Mr. RICH. I understood from the engineer that the State ca fornia was to make the contract with the Reclamation the Federal Government, and it was the intent and purt State of California to guarantee to the Reclamation Service I money would be paid back in full, and that the State of C would guarantee the account.

Mr. HYATT. If I conveyed that idea it was incorrect. may contract with the Secretary of the Interior to make ments; if so that entity will in turn make individual contra many districts.

Mr. RICH. Do you not think it would be the best thing tas have this contract drawn so we know just how far we are the money of the Federal Government on behalf of the California? If you had the contract drawn we would it would be.

Mr. HYATT. Yes; that is exactly right; but it cannot be e until the Secretary is empowered to enter into a contract w kind of agency, which he cannot do today.

Mr. RICH. Who will be responsible for liquidating this desti**a Federal Government!

Mr. Buck. Mr. Chairman, may I read from the act, the ar ation bill of last year?

The Central Valley project, California, for continuation $6** available until June 30, 1937, of which $6,000,000 will be avai.it e struction of the Friant Reservoir and irrigation facilities there from Joaquin Basin, $270,000 for administrative expenses, etc, for the sele as those specified for the projects included in the Interior Ijor priation Act for the fiscal year 1937, under the caption, Bureau of R«»and to be reimbursable under the reclamation law.

It is not my understanding that the State of Califor" : thing to do with this, at all, except that the State water is being used as an agency of the Bureau of Reclamation to a s some rights-of-way, water rights, and so on.

And as a matter of fact, Mr. Hyatt, is it not a fact tat water authority does not enter into this picture, at a work will be performed by the Bureau of Reclamstier, a money will be reimbursable to the Bureau of Reclamati Irrigation and Reclamation districts that enter into it!

Mr. RICH. But the State of California will be respon!! irrigation and reclamation districts that enter into en tra it, or with the Bureau of Reclamation, as residents of that pasection!