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Mr. Tarver. The Federal Government, may I say to my colleague, has already indicated its purpose through the action of Congress-and Congress itself represents the Federal Government--by substantially increasing the amount of the authorization for this purpose. Congress has acted upon it through the passage of the George-Deen Act last year. Through that action, the Government with one hand held out a loaf of bread to those in this country who were starving for this kind of training, and then with the other hand, through the Budget Bureau, it proposes to take the loaf back. That is not good faith.

Mr. O'NEAL. Judge Tarver, I did not understand your statement about providing 35 percent of the funds necessary. Would you mind repeating that?

Mr. TARVER. I will be glad to do so, and in that connection I desire to read from the statement of Dr. J. W. Studebaker, Commissioner of Education, in connection with the consideration of this legislation when it was up last year. This statement is contained in the report of the Committee on Education to the House:

There is at present the greatest demand on the part of our people for education that will help them in understanding and adjusting themselves to our rapidly changing conditions. Our public schools have fostered this type of education with the aid of the Smith-Hughes and George-Ellzey Acts, and are now reaching less than 35 percent of the communities that need and are demanding vocational education as sponsored by your bill. The only way these needs can be met is through additional appropriations.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Judge Tarver, assuming that this legislation had not been enacted, would those States have constructed those buildings for the education of their children?

Mr. TARVER. Their need for construction would not have been so great. When they were advised this bill had passed—the George-Deen bill—the people in charge of the vocational education program thought it would be possible to take care of their needs if they would get themselves in shape to provide the necessary construction and to purchase the additional equipment that was necessary to take advantage of the terms of the act. They went ahead and did that, when, otherwise, they would not have incurred that expense.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Is there any one of the five points in the program that you would prefer to see carried into effect?

Mr. TARVER. I think that the entire provisions of the act should be carried into effect. Congress was almost unanimously of that opinion. I do not understand that there was any substantial opposition to the passage of the measure. Why should not this whole program be carried into effect, not only with regard to one purpose specified, but with regard to all of them?

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Why should not the will of Congress be carried into effect with respect to other legislation enacted by Congress?

Mr. TARVER. I think it should be. Mr. FITZPATRICK. But you have reported or proposed some changes with respect to the disposal of surplus fish products.

Mr. Tarver. No, sir; in the matter of surplus fish products, the position I took on that matter-

Mr. FITZPATRICK (interposing). Congress acted on that.

Mr. TARVER. The position I took on that matter was that we should appropriate not less than the amount necessary. The people

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who had charge of that program said that they intended to spend only half a million dollars, and the amount provided was twice as much as they said was necessary for the purpose. I am only asking here that you give as much as your educational authorities say is necessary, and not twice as much. My position here is entirely consistent with my position on the fish-products bill.

Mr. FULLER. I now present Mr. Cox, of Georgia.



Mr. Cox. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, the presentation of this matter has been most convincing to me, and I hope it has been both convincing and appealing to the committee.

I was particularly impressed by the statement of Mr. Kleberg. It had a peculiar sort of appeal for me.

Of course, the Georgia delegation fully appreciates the work that Mr. Deen has done, and we are standing with him on this proposition to a man.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, as you probably know, I have not manifested any very great enthusiasm for some parts of the Government's spending program. I do, however, favor the proposal of making this expenditure, and I do that because I think you can better justify it on economic grounds than is possible in the case of any other single instance of Government spending.

In what I have said I do not mean that I am opposed to the expenditures that have been made in the name of relief and in behalf of equalizing the benefits of government, but I mean to say that I am more enthusiastic over this proposal than many others. I think it well to spend for promoting the spiritual and intellectual side of the young, as well as for providing ease and comfort to some degree. We might as well spend something for this purpose, because the youth of our country and future generations are being mortgaged to raise the money which is being spent. I think we get more for our money in expenditures of the type proposed under this legislation than we do in most if not in all others, and I trust that the case made out here, and as it will be made out, will be such as to influence you gentlemen to act favorably upon this appeal that you recommend the appropriation of the full amount of the authorization.

Mr. Johnson. We thank you for your statement.

Mr. FULLER. I take pleasure in presenting Mr. Cooley, of North Carolina.



Mr. Cooley. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee:

I appreciate very much the courtesy of the committee in permitting me to appear and to express my views concerning the appropriation which is to be made by Congress for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of the George-Deen Act.

While I am not commissioned to speak for the North Carolina delegation in Congress, I feel quite certain that I express the sentiment of our entire delegation in appearing here to approve vocational education and to urge the appropriation of the maximum amount which has heretofore been authorized by Congress. I feel quite certain that when this matter reaches the floor of the House that every member of the North Carolina delegation will approve the action of this committee in the event the committee in its wisdom recommends the appropriation of the $14,200,000 which Congress has authorized to be appropriated for this very necessary and vitally important educational work.

From communications which I have received with reference to this subject from Hon. Clyde A. Erwin, State superintendent of public instruction, Mr. T. E. Browne, director of vocational education, from vocational teachers and others interested in the work in my State, I am thoroughly convinced that the people of North Carolina are practically unanimously in favor of the maximum appropriation.

The Governor of North Carolina has expressed great interest in vocational education and made definite reference to it in his inaugural address. Our people are sold on the idea of vocational education. In the language of our State superintendent of public instruction, “North Carolina has become vocationally minded."

I am quite sure that every member of this committee appreciates the value of vocational education. I shall not therefore undertake to discuss the splendid work which has been done by the vocational teachers in this country. I only desire to impress upon the committee the necessity of continuing, enlarging, and expanding governmental activities in this particular field. Congress has spoken in no uncertain terms upon this subject and the country at large will look with favor upon any act of Congress which makes available additional funds for an expansion of the program.

When the George-Deen Act passed Congress by tremendous majorities in both houses those interested in vocational education thought that their long and hard fight had finally been won and they were delighted at the prospect of a greatly enlarged program. Since the passage of the George-Deen Act directors of vocational education, county superintendents of schools, and county boards of education have been besieged by public-spirited citizens urging the appointment of additional vocational teachers in their various communities. These urgent requests have continued to flow into the offices of the directors of vocational education in practically every State in the Union. In the hope and in the belief that the amount authorized would actually be appropriated, plans have been made for enlarging the program and unless Congress makes the money available the work will be greatly retarded and our people will be greatly disappointed.

While I am impressed with the necessity of curtailing excessive governmental expenditures and effecting economies in government, I am unwilling to start curtailing by cutting the amount authorized for this most essential and highly important activity. It we are spending millions and hundreds of millions for relief, work relief and a thousand and one other purposes, it seems to me that we should be able to

find the small amount of this authorization, most of which is to be expended upon the youth of the land in preparing them for the fight of the future. If by taking tremendous appropriations we are mortgaging America's future as has been suggested, we can ill afford to withhold this appropriation from the youth of this land upon whom it will be expended and upon whose shoulders the burdens of this Government will ultimately fall.

Ordinarily I respect the view of the Director of the Budget, but when I contemplate the magnitude of the appropriations which he has approved and which he will no doubt shortly approve, and realize the comparative insignificance of the amount here involved, I am frank to state that his action in this matter is hard for me to understand. It seems quite easy for the Government to find money for other purposes and I see no just cause for approving only three paltry million dollars for this very worthwhile purpose. If we can build monuments to our heroes and spend great sums beautifying buildings and grounds, we can certainly well afford to invest 14 million in training our youth.

I not only favor the $14,000,000 which has been authorized, but I would vote for an authorization for an appropriation and for a tas measure for twice that amount for this great purpose. If we are going to curtail, let us start at the right place. This is one educational activity which the Federal Government may well undertake and an appropriation of Federal funds which we can well afford to make. I therefore respectfully urge the Appropriations Committee to give us a bill carrying the maximum amount authorized for vocational education.

Mr. FULLER. I now take pleasure in presenting Mr. DeRouen, of Louisiana.


CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA Mr. DEROUEN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I rise to speak in behalf of this increased appropriation, and I speak for the entire delegation.

I happen to have been a member of the committee on Education for the last 10 years. I wish to say that I participated in the consideration of some of the first vocational education bills that were presented to the Congress, when our good friend, Dan Reed, of New York, was the chairman. I also had the benefit of many discussions of the George-Deen bill, in which I participated. The committee had the benefit of the discussion of the bill by our good colleague, Mr. Deen, who is the author of the present bill.

I might add that the Louisiana delegation of eight Members of the House and the two Senators are unanimously in favor of the increased appropriation. I might say further, speaking for our two Senators, that they are also in favor of the increased appropriation.

I realize, Mr. Chairman, from the talk we have had here, the situation that confronts this subcommittee with regard to overriding the recommendation of the Bureau of the Budget. That is the real

problem facing you gentlemen but after all it would appear to be your duty so to do.

I favor the suggestion of the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Vinson, who said there were several ways by which this could be done. There are probably 18 or 20 reductions which could be made without any harm, so I am informed by which you could do it. There should be no difficulty about it, because I believe the country wants it. I am not going to elaborate very long on this, but I wonder why it was when the President appointed a special committee to study the need for the appropriation to vocational education and to make an investigation as to whether, or not, this vocational education plan should be supported and continued, and that the group or committee made up entirely of men outside of the vocational fields did recommend an appropriation of 20 millions and yet the Bureau of the Budget ignored that recommendation. They made a unanimous report to the President and the country recommending, as I have said that $20,000,000 be appropriated.

In my State we have a large institution with nearly 9,000 students, and I have several letters from the officials in that institution supporting this proposal. I would like to be permitted to insert a statement in support of this measure signed by our entire delegation.

May I add one more word on this subject: Another reason for our anxiety of the present situation is the fact that this is the year our great university is called upon to write a 5-year plan, and make provision in these plans for the expansion of this service to all deserving communities in the State, and, therefore, it is absolutely necessary that the States should know where they stand. How will they be able to provide for the 5-year plan, and how can the legislatures make appropriations so as to continue the work in that field of education unless they know how much the Federal Government will provide. Unless: that is done, you will have a disorganized and broken-down system. The substantial organizations that have been built up during the last 10 or 15 years for that purpose will be disrupted.

I will not take up any more of your time, and will conclude with the request that I may file with you this joint report.

One of my colleagues, Mr. Mills, who was formerly a school teacher, is present, and I would like for you to hear him for a few minutes. I hand you a joint statement signed by the entire delegation from Louisiana, which is as follows:

STATEMENT OF THE LOUISIANA DELEGATION Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, we are heartily in accord with the views expressed before your committee advocating the full appropriation under the George-Deen Act.

In a day and age of rapidly changing technique and market demands, many people will find it necessary to make readjustments long after they have first entered industry. Adjustment of our educational content and technique to this situation is a vital need in a long-range program for economic security. Education has been regarded in this country as a responsibility of the State and local governments and should remain so. In the joint attack on economic security which we advocate, Federal participation, however, is most desirable and should be permanent in the new order. To a considerable extent, the Federal Government is already participating in this endeavor, and we believe that it should continue to do so on an extended scale.

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