literature, offering to the public those lands and designating the land as dry land or irrigated land or grazing land.

This particular land that we are interested in, of course, is grazing land, People would go in and bid on this land under the terms of the offer, and they were given to understand that when they purchase this irrigated land, they purchased really irrigated land with a sufficient supply of water. I believe that the Government has recognized that at all times.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. May I interrupt for a moment? Do I understand you to say that official Government advertisements of the lands for sale represented it as having full water rights?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Are any of those advertisements or certified copies of them here today so that they can be put into the record?

Mr. BUNSTON. We will be glad to send them to you, newspaper advertisements, and so forth.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. All right. We would like to have them, if you have something of an official nature, so we can see its official nature.

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes; these were sent out by the superintendent, stating that at such and such a time they would sell the lands by option or through bids and under these conditions.

Mr. O'NEAL. All of this land was not sold, was it? It is not now all in private hands?

Mr. BUNSTON. No; only about 28 percent of the original lands in the Little Horn-Lodge Grass Valley has been sold. Only that much of it is in the hands of third parties other than the Indians.

Mr. RICH. In all of these advertisements for sale they did not guar antee that there was so much water, did they? Didn't they just get the rights that naturally would go with water facilities? They did not try to say that the irrigation would be full or make any guaranties as to the amount?

Mr. BUNSTON. No; I don't recall any such advertisements as that. But they did at the beginning of the advertisements say that the land was valued at a certain amount, that a certain amount was grazing land, and other lands were put in under dry farming land, and others under actual irrigated land. I don't think that they have ever actually guaranteed any particular amount of water.

Mr. RICH. Then there was apparently no misrepresentation? Mr. BUNSTON. No; I don't want to be understood as saying that there was misrepresentation.

Mr. RICH. A purchaser could get all the information possible if he wanted to inquire about the property?

Mr. BUNSTON. Oh, yes. You see, out there in the earlier days there was ample water. When the people bought that land, they did it feeling that there was ample water there.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Have the climatic conditions changed so that. although there was ample water there at one time, there now is deficient water?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes; that has helped bring this about. That has also been helped by the burning of timber on the watersheds, so that now the water gets away quickly in the spring. The timber is not there to hold the water back in the mountains. That condition has helped.

Mr. O'NEAL. Is the ownership of this land all on the Indian reservation?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes; all of it.

Mr. O'NEAL. And the title to that land is in the Indians?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. O'NEAL. And then, due to death of some of the Indians, their heirs have alienated it from the Indians so that now it is held, a large part of it, by white settlers. Is that right?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes; about 28 percent is held by white settlers. Mr. O'NEAL. The balance of this land is owned by the Indians? Mr. BUNSTON.. It is still owned by the Indians.

Mr. O'NEAL. Are the Indians that own the land there now of such a type that they would undertake to conduct farms when this land is improved, or would they sell it to other white settlers and get the benefit of the improvement in the way of profit on the land?

Mr. BUNSTON. Let me just explain that a little bit. I think I can make it clear to you.

Mr. O'NEAL. Yes; I would like to have you do so.

Mr. BUNSTON. The Big Horn country is all agricultural. That is the only interest that we have, agricultural. It is all stock raising and actual farming. We usually have about 100,000 head of cattle and about 125,000 head of sheep. The Indians have always been very much interested in livestock.

During the past year there has been constructed there at Hardin a new sugar-beet factory. About 21⁄2 months ago the Hardin Sugar Co., the operating company there, began employing an Indian. I don't know whether he is a comparatively full-blooded Indian or not, but he is practically so. They have employed him as a field man to work with the Indians in connection with the encouraging of those Indians to produce sugar beets; and he is now out in the field working. As a result of that, in the past 5 or 6 months there have been quite a few Indians who have started in actual farming operations there over what there was 10 years ago.

Mr. O'NEAL. If this improvement is made, do you think the tendency will be for the Indians to sell this land and take the profit as a result of the improvement and go elsewhere, or do you think it would be their desire to stay there and use the land.

Mr. BUNSTON. No, I think it will be their desire to stay there and use the land.

Mr. O'NEAL. In other words, this is not to promote profit for them by selling the land?

Mr. BUNSTON. No, in fact, they are not permitted to sell it now. Mr. O'NEAL. There is a prohibition of that? They cannot alienate this property except by death, and then their heirs can sell it? Is that true?

Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes.

Mr. BUNSTON. Since 1918 they have had a serious shortage of water in the Little Horn Valley. This has increased each year since that time until the records show that in the years from 1934 to 1936 we probably did not produce 25 percent of the normal crop on account of the water condition.

I don't think it is necessary for me to produce any records to show the fact that the Little Horn and Lodge Grass Valleys are considered the most fertile in the West. That was demonstrated when the

Custer fight was on. The Indians were fighting to see which ones could control that country. Everybody, all the authorities, admit that that is one of the best valleys that there is in the West. The only thing that it lacks for the production that it ought to have is a supply of water.

They have ample water that goes away. I have just sent and had some of these pictures brought here showing the water as it is going away now in the last few days [producing photographs]. It shows that there are just worlds of water if we can just store up a little bit of it.

Mr. Clyde Lewis, the engineer who is in charge of irrigation on the reservation, states that not to exceed 15 percent of the water that goes down the streams is used for irrigation purposes. So, from the standpoint of having ample water, if we can conserve it, there is no question at all about that.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Do you make that statement on the basis of records of scientific stream measurements, or just by impressions that you get from being on the work there?

Mr. BUNSTON. No, Mr. Waltham has that; and I believe he is going to appear before you gentlemen and will give you that data. Mr. RICH. What is the rainfall in that locality, the average rianfall for the State of Montana in that close proximity to where the dam will be located?

Mr. BUNSTON. About 13 inches.

Mr. RICH. If you had not had irrigation, how many years in the last 5 years would there have been insufficient rainfall to take care of your crops?

Mr. BUNSTON. You understand that on this irrigated land, once you start irrigating it, you have to continue to irrigate it unless you get a very, very heavy supply of water from rainfall. It seems that when you once start irrigating land, you have to keep on. Now, you can farm dry land and get away with a much smaller amount of rainfall and get a crop which will vary somewhat.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. You mean that the vegetation accustoms itself, so to speak, to arid conditions; but, if you once commence to grow the type of vegetation which requires a good deal of water, such as alfalfa, or even the same type of vegetation that you grew before, you have to supply more water?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes, you can hardly produce anything, any crop, to any extent on a piece of land that has been irrigated the year before unless you have a good amount of water the next year.

In other words, dry land is farmed dry. You can get by with those dry conditions and get something off of that dry land. For instance, you can get some wheat off of dry land. But you cannot produce that wheat on land that is used to irrigation.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. You cannot get the same amount of it?

Mr. BUNSTON. No, you cannot get as much as you could on the dry land.

Mr. RICH. This is something new to me, in this respect: That as soon as you start to irrigate, then you change the crops which you formerly raised on that particular kind of land. Is that true?

Mr. BUNSTON. Well, yes. We don't grow out in Montana or those Western States any dry-land crops hardly other than wheat and a little grass. If it is a fairly moist, pretty good year, we can get by

and get a little wild grass and make hay. But wheat is the only dryland crop that we have in Montana that we can get by with.

Mr. RICH. Do you raise wheat on this particular land?

Mr. BUNSTON. No; very, very little. And when we do, it is spring wheat, of which, as you know, there is a shortage in the United States. It is needed for blending with the hard wheat to make a good type. of flour.

Mr. RICH. If you irrigated it, would you then grow what?

Mr. BUNSTON. No; very, very little. Here is what we grow there: We grow sugar beets, alfalfa, oats, barley, and some beans.

Mr. RICH. On these lands now do the people who are there make a living? Does it pay them to raise these crops?

Mr. BUNSTON. No; it has not in the last 5 years. The conditions of the white owners of these lands is getting very, very bad.

Here is what happens: If we put in a crop of beets, and we think that maybe we are going to get by with a crop and maybe wiggle out with the water, as soon as those beets are up, we have all the expense of thinning. We have all the expense of the seed and of the culti vating and of the irrigating. And then maybe along about the middle of August we run out of water. We have three or four tons of beets per acre. Now, I don't know what you men know about farming; but that won't pay for the first cost.

Mr. RICH. How many years in the last 5 years have you lost on the crops that you raised on these lands?

Mr. BUNSTON. Every year, I would say, but 1935.

Mr. RICH. Every year but 1935? Then you have lost in the last 4 years out of 5?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. RICH. If the price of commodities had been the same all during that time that they are today, would you have made money?

Mr. BUNSTON. Oh, yes.

Mr. RICH. You would have made money on those lands then?
Mr. BUNSTON. Oh, yes.

Mr. RICH. Then you lost primarily because the price of the commodity was lower?

Mr. BUNSTON. Maybe I don't understand your question.

Mr. RICH. You told me that you would have made money on this land raising the crops that you have if the prices of the crops had been the same all during that time that they are at the present time. In other words, wheat is $1.50 a bushel today. It was 35 cents a bushel then. That is the reason why you could not make any money on raising wheat then. If it had been $1.50 a bushel then you would have been making a profit, wouldn't you?

Mr. BUNSTON. Absolutely.

Mr. RICH. Then the reason lies a good deal in the price of the commodity rather than what the land would grow?

Mr. BUNSTON. Of course, if you don't get the product, you cannot make anything. That is the thing.

Mr. RICH. I appreciate that.

Mr. BUNSTON. Some of these commodities during the past 5 years. have averaged a fair price.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Did you understand his question?

Mr. BUNSTON. I don't know whether I did or not.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Did you raise the products? That is what he is trying to find out.

Mr. BUNSTON. Did we raise the products?

Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes; because of the lack of water or not.

Mr. BUNSTON. Oh, no; we didn't raise the products, because we could not get the water.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Did you put in the seed?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. It failed to mature on account of the lack of water? Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. RICH. Let me see if you can get the general question. I don't want to misquote you on the record, because I am trying to find out whether the land would produce enough of the crops which you ordinarily plant in the ground at this particular time since there is irrigation, if the price of the commodity which you raised was the same in 1933, we will say, as it is at the present time, in 1937; then would you have made enough by the crops that you raised on that particular land to have made a profit?

Mr. BUNSTON. Your question, if I get it correctly, is, Would we have made enough farming that land under the dry-land method to have made a profit?

Mr. RICH. Yes.

Mr. BUNSTON. No; I don't think so, because that valley land generally is particularly adapted for irrigation. It will produce s little more than the upland will.

Mr. RICH. How much would you have fallen short on the average per acre of making a profit on the amount of time and energy that you spent on raising those products on dry lands?

Mr. BUNSTON. About 2 years would have licked any of them and put them out of business. Here is the condition: On the dry land we don't attempt to raise anything but wheat.

Mr. RICH. You only have one crop?

Mr. BUNSTON. That is all.

Mr. RICH. You only get one crop. Now, if you raised wheat at $1.50 a bushel, would the amount that you raised in the past 5 years have brought you a profit?

Mr. BUNSTON. I don't think so.

Mr. RICH. How many bushels of wheat do you raise on an acre or have you raised on the average per acre in the last 5 years? Mr. BUNSTON. Do you mean on the irrigated land?

Mr. RICH. No, dry; you don't know anything about irrigation, because we are talking about dry lands now. About how many bushels have you raised on the average per acre on the dry land?

Mr. BUNSTON. I would estimate that in the State it would not run over 12 bushels.

Mr. RICH. I am speaking of this particular valley that you are talking about now.

Mr. BUNSTON. I don't think it would beat that-12 bushels.

Mr. RICH. Twelve bushels per acre?

Mr. BUNSTON. Yes.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Have you concluded?

Mr. O'CONNOR. I would just like to ask one question.

With the land as it is there, and with the limited water supply that you have now, what do you produce on the average per acre, that is, with the water as it has been in the last 6 or 7 years?

Mr. BUNSTON. I presume that in the Little Horn and Lodge Grass Valleys that are in question all of the tonnage during the past 5 years