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Mr. RICH. Were you ever called hard-boiled?

Mr. DODD. Sir?

Mr. RICH. Were you ever called hard-boiled because you did no: grant those things?

Mr. DODD. I got quite a going-over Saturday morning by one of our field men.

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Mr. RICH. If you get that a few times you would be all right. Mr. LAMBERTSON. Did you ever have superintendents that you did In not think were capable?

Mr. DODD. Yes; and we have preferred charges against them. Mr. LAMBERTSON. But it is rather rare instances that you complain about a dub, particularly if he has civil-service status, because inefficiency is tolerated in such people because they have civil-service to status?

Mr. DODD. Yes; but we attempt to get rid of inefficient superintendents. We have several employees in the field now who formerly were superintendents, failed to make the grade, and have been demoted to clerical positions.

Mr. LEAVY. I want to get you to discuss the item of attorneys' fees. How much are you asking in that item?

ATTORNEYS' FEES

Mr. DODD. The maximum that we are requesting in connection with this total group at Carson is $29,100, for everything.

Now, the amount that would go into attorneys' fees and expenses I would say would be extremely limited, possibly not to exceed $500 to $800. The Indians want to use this principally for loans and industrial advancement, but they want to have the control and they want to direct how it shall be spent and who they are who receive the benefits.

Mr. LEAVY. Would it be used to employ some attorney in Carson City?

Mr. DODD. Yes; they might employ some attorney in Carson City to prepare some legal document for them right there. This is not s case similar to those other cases that have been presented by Washington attorneys.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. It would not be high-class services, it would be just preparing notes and contracts.

Mr. DODD. Yes; that is all.

Mr. LEAVY. Does not your service do that?

Mr. LAMBERTSON. Can't the chief clerk of the office do that? Mr. DODD. The chief clerks have practically no legal training at all. Mr. LAMBERTSON. But the cashiers of our small-town banks all draw contracts and make wills and do everything for everybody, and they are no attorneys. They have no legal status at all.

Mr. LEAVY. I am wondering if in the language you submit, Mr. Dodd, it would not be wise to place some limitation, assuming that it is necessary on this expendture. You see your language is very broad.

Mr. DODD. Yes.

Mr. LEAVY. Of the $29,100 they could use a maximum part of it. Mr. DODD. I suggest then an arbitrary limit on that. I haven't any idea of what would be involved. I don't want to invite an

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attorney to charge the maximum that we might specify, but if you nust put a limit on, I would suggest not to exceed $1,500 of the total of $29,100.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. How many lawyers have you in the solicitor's office?

Mr. DODD. I do not know; there are three men in the solicitor's office who are assigned to the Washington office in the Bureau of Indian Affairs. They are paid from the solicitor's appropriation.

NORTH CAROLINA

Mr. LEAVY. The next item is for North Carolina; Cherokee $18,000, together with the unexpended balance under this head for the fiscal year 1937.

Mr. DODD. I submit the following justification for the record.

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians under the Cherokee Agency in North Carolina has to its credit approximately $167,872. During 1936 approximately $18,840 was deposited to the credit of this group of Indians. This money is not used for administrative purposes. It is made available for the use of the Indians for miscellaneous reservation, industrial, and relief purposes as and when requested by the tribal council. Small salaries to the chief and assistant chief and members of the tribal council are paid from this fund.

The reservation is located some 60 miles from Asheville, N. C., and adjoins the Great Smoky National Park. The greater portion of this reservation is of a mountainous character, with only small hillside clearances, and a few spots of valley land available for agricultural purposes. For a number of years the Indians found employment in the lumber industry conducted on the reservation. From this employment they obtained sufficient income for immediate needs. Most of the merchantable timber has been disposed of and the last timber operator has left the reservation. While numerous individuals will be able to provide subsistence through their own farming efforts, it will not be possible for any great number to engage in commercial agriculture.

These Indians are progressive, and some members of the tribal council have been alert to the need for development of community enterprises which will not only provide employment opportunities for some, but will result in annual accumulations to the tribal assets. There is an unusual opportunity for the development, on a small scale, of a hotel for the accommodation of the many tourists visiting this area, a garage and service station, and a trading center for the disposal of Indian arts and crafts. In connection with the school program on the reservation, steps have already been taken to establish a preserving factory for the purpose of conserving a portion of the large quantity of wild fruits and berries growing on the reservation. Products of this factory would be disposed of in the trading

center.

Two years ago the tribal council requested the use of $50,000 of their own funds for an initial investment in the facilities named, and the expenditure was authorized for 1936. Plans were in preparation by a private architect of the Indians' own choosing. During the early fall of 1935 a new tribal council was elected, and one of its first acts was to vote against using the tribal funds for the project mentioned. The project consequently has been at a standstill. The Indians have recently shown renewed interest in the project, and present indications are that eventually the objection to this enterprise will be overcome, because of the unusual opportunity for an assured income to the tribe. We therefore propose

to continue the availability of the appropriation for another year.

For 1937 an appropriation of $10,000 was made for the establishment of a tribal sawmill. Lumber produced would be used for the building or improvement of Indian homes, and for sale commercially. To date nothing has been done, but the money remains available for use when the tribal council sees fit to endorse the enterprise. There is included in this estimate an additional $10,000 to be used for operating the mill next year, in the event it is placed in operation, and also to defray a portion of the operating costs of the crafts store, should this project finally be undertaken.

An additional $7,000 was appropriated for surveying the reservation boundaries. This work has not yet been started.

We again state that expenditures from Cherokee funds, even t priated, are not used except upon the written request of the tribe exp reits duly elected tribal council.

Mr. LEAVY. How much will the unexpended balance been i item of the North Carolina Cherokee Indians?

Mr. DODD. It will be approximately $50,000. This is the -that Mrs. Jemison referred to the other day.

In 1936, $50,000 was appropriated, but it was not usei appropriated at the request of the tribal council. The tribal e changed. After we had our plans all made, and after they et. they decided that they would not spend the money.

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Just recently, since the 1st of March, I was at Cherokee ani with some of them and they indicated that the Indians wantes ahead with this enterprise. This item was in the bill, and was f building of an arts and crafts building and shop and a ma.. t place to lodge travelers going through the Great Smoky Naters Park.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. I have been over there.

Mr. DODD. There are two places down there at the present ti sell Indian-made goods.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. They sell expensive goods there.

Mr. Dopp. Some are quite expensive, but they are Indian .ae Mr. RICH. $50,000 would build quite an establishment.

Mr. DODD. It would

Mr. RICH. Why couldn't you cut it down to $25,000 and mighty good building with that; you could build a mighty nce: for the arts and crafts.

Mr. Dopp. This is to maintain a place where they will sell arts it crafts goods; there will also be a crafts shop where things are and then they will have a tourist hotel where they could accop the travelers going to the Great Smoky National Park The i passes right through the Cherokee Reservation and there is r¦• nearby for tourists to stop.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. There is Gatlinburg on the west.

Mr. Dopp. Yes; Gatlinburg is on the west, and Bryn C 10 miles away, is off the highway, and Sylvia is back about 14 r north and east of the reservation.

Now, these Indians have an opportunity to undertake an ertam prise which will bring a considerable amount of revenue to ther: This is out of their funds and it was first approved by the and we merely ask for its continuance in the event the tribe to go into this enterprise.

Mr JOHNSON. I think I indicated previously in this hearing that am very much interested in the arts and crafts division can be made a wonderful asset to the Indians if properly han frankly, I am disappointed the way the organization has startex first place the Commissioner asked us for sufferent funds to expert who knew arts and crafts and who could do the job him what we thought was a very reasonable amount of mone instead of getting a man who knew something about arts ar as well as the Indians, and their ways, he went to Cleveland an up a very splendid gentleman, but one whom I have been! nothing about it, and of course could not possibly function e Mr Dopp. The Cherokees have a very real opportunity down.

OKLAHOMA

QUAPAW

Mr. JOHNSON. What is the next item?

Mr. DODD. The next item is "Oklahoma: Quapaw (Seneca), $200." This amount was included in the appropriation bill for 1937 at the request of the business committee of the Seneca Indians, who desired to dig a well on the tribal gathering place of community ground. Development of this well will safeguard the health of the Indians who come together from time to time at the community meeting place. The amount requested was all that these Indians had on deposit in the Treasury.

SHAWNEE

Mr. JOHNSON. The next item is "Oklahoma: (Iowa) $300".

Shawnee

Mr. DODD. This small amount was appropriated for 1937 at the request of the Iowa Indians under the jurisdiction of the Shawnee Agency, Okla. The money is being used to purchase about 2 acres to be added to the tribal cemetery and to purchase wire for fencing the cemetery tract. The existing cemetery consists of only one-half acre of ground reserved from an Indian allotment sold many years ago. It is not protected, and many of the tombstones have been displaced by roving horses and cattle.

Mr. LAMBERTSON. They are attorneys?

Mr. DODD. Yes, sir; they are attorneys.

OREGON

Mr. JOHNSON. The next item, on page 233, is for the Klamath Indians in Oregon.

Mr. DODD. I submit the following justification for the record:

The Klamath Reservation, in southern Oregon, is inhabited by approximately 1,310 Indians of the Klamath Tribe and contains 243,385 acres of allotted and 864,952 acres of tribal land. The reservation is heavily timbered and in normal times a considerable annual revenue is derived from timber sale contracts. The present balance to the credit of these Indians is approximately $328,856. Receipts during the past year were $367,655. Administrative expenses at Klamath have been defrayed almost entirely from tribal funds in the past. Aside from this authorization there is an annual expenditure for administrative expenses in connection with timber sales. The current budget authority carries $37,120 for this work. The expenditures for the latter purpose are reimbursed to the Federal Treasury through deductions made to cover costs of timber operations. It is proposed to trnasfer the salary of the Indian policeman to the appropriation for maintaining law and order.

The item of $10,000 for the revolving fund for burial expenses is eliminated from the estimate.

To assist the tribe in its many problems, a contract has been negotiated with a firm of attorneys. In the supplemental appropriation act, fiscal year, 1936, $4,000 was appropriated to compensate the attorneys at the rate of $300 a month. Approximately $2,500 of that appropriation was available on July 1, 1936, for the present year. This will be enough for about 8 months. No provision is made in this estimate either for an amount to cover these costs to June 30, 1937, or to make payments in 1938 in accordance with the terms of the contract.

The estimate for 1938 may be tentatively segregated into the following clas fications:

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(a) The administrative force at this agency, exclusive of those employees ergaged strictly in forestry work, consists of the superintendent and seven clerks, whose net salaries aggregate $10,280. In addition, a considerable amount of irregular labor is employed to maintain the grounds and perform various types of other work, including operation of heating plants and the disposal of ashes and trash. For many years a much larger appropriation was provided for agency administrative costs. With the depression and its effect upon the lumber industry, business of the agency diminished, and the annual appropriations were greatly reduced, as will be noted from the following:

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Drastic reductions were made for 1933, at the insistence of representatives of the tribe, who appeared before the Appropriations Committees and protested against large appropriations of tribal funds for administrative purposes. To operate within the limited appropriation for 1933 it was necessary to dispose of the services of much-needed clerks. The present clerical force is inadequate to handle the volume of work at the agency. Funds are, therefore, requested for two additional clerks, at $1,440 net each. The remainder of the $4,000 increase requested under this head is for meeting ordinary operating expenses, such as the purchase of stationery and office supplies, communication service, traveling expenses of the superintendent and other employees, the purchase and repair of office and other equipment, and other incidental items.

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(b) The Klamath Hospital required $23,299 for operation during 1935. minimum of $23,300 will be required for 1938. This hospital has 37 beds, but it was utilized to a somewhat less extent than other hospitals in the Indian Service for several years. The daily patient average was 9 to 10. This condition was due principally to the fact that the Indians used personal funds for treatment in private hospitals. Another factor was the attitude of the Indians toward certain health employees. Conditions have changed materially during the last 2 years and more use is now being made of the hospital. In fact, a request has been made for enlarging it and for providing facilities not now available. It is believed that under present conditions the increase is fully justified.

(c) This amount is to cover expenses of members of the tribal council when engaged on business of the tribe on the reservation. It will also be used to defray expenses of council members or representatives of the tribe when visiting the seat of government. This tribe has numerous problems relating to its timber assets and to other matters. For the purpose of discussing these problems, and for assisting in the enactment of legislation of general benefit to the tribe, it is customary for a delegation representing the tribe to visit Washington during each session of Congress. Funds must be provided to meet the traveling and other expenses of those selected for these visits. The delegation usually consists of two

persons.

Language change.--Text with reference to the revolving fund is eliminated. Under recent rulings of the Comptroller General it is necessary that appropriation text specifically provide for per diem allowances; otherwise, expenses of subsistence must be on an actual expense basis. It is more convenient to pay a per diem, particularly because individuals not familiar with the requirements of the standardized travel regulations would find it difficult to keep accurate records of expenditures and in many cases would fail to take receipts when necessary.

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