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Mr. DEMARAY. It was increased from $50,000 to $55,000?
Mr. DEMARAY. I was in error, which I am glad has been corrected.


Mr. Rich. Mr. O'Neal asked a question awhile ago in reference to a small fee charged for a beautiful booklet describing the parks. I believe there is a lot of merit to that suggestion for this reason: You take a booklet like that, and you have an automobile going into Hot Springs Park, and you have a Government agency there where they are passing something out for nothing. That is a very beautiful hooklet, I think. However, if you have an automobile with seven children in it, every one of those children, when they know it does not cost anything, say, "Give me one; give me one”, and they will put even in the car, where one would naturally be enough for the family. They will take them home and probably preserve only one of them, and the chances are that when they are through with the park they are through with the booklet. There is a lot of merit to it in my judgment.

Then, there is another thing, it depends a great deal on how the people doing your work are making distribution. If they are promiscuously putting them out, naturally, 30,000 copies, or 600,000 copies, will not go very far; but if they give some consideration to the cars that come into the park and say we will allocate only one to a car or two to & car, they can do a great deal in cutting down the expenses, and makug your advertising and literature go a great deal further.


Now, we come back to this question: You say in getting out your Four advertisements, and we appreciate the fact that this is published urer in the Government Printing Office, how many people in your Department are making up circulars such as these and others that you have made on your mimeograph? How many people have you in the office down there?

Mr. DEMARAY. We have no persons actually working on mimeograph machines. We have in our clerical staff an editor, and I think there are two permanent editorial assistants who are actually doing the work of compiling the information and putting it in that form, and then we send that down to the Department's duplicating section, as it s called, and they actually make the finished product down there.

Mr. Rich. How many work in the duplicating section? Jr. DEMARAY. I could not tell you that. Mr. Rich. That is in your Department, is it not? Mr. DEMARAY. It is in the Interior Department, but we have Birthing to do with it ourselves. Mr. SCRIGHAM. You do not do the mimeographing of letters and rulars, and so forth? Mr. DEMARAY. No, sir. Mr. Rich. I am trying to find our what their printing establishment consists of up in the Interior Department.

Mr. DEMARAY. I am not in a position to answer that, Congressman Rich, because that is under the Secretary's Office, and I do not know anything about it.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Demaray will make a note of that, and if you would like it, I will ask him to put that information in the record.

Mr. Rich. I wish you would, because I am only trying to consolidate this branch of the Government.

Mr. Scrigham. That information will be inserted in the record at the proper time. (Information referred to is as follows:)

Employees of the Miscellaneous Service Section, Department of the Interior Regular (Civil Service)...... Parks, Emergency Conservation Work..... Indian, Emergency (onservation Work.... Public Works Administration.... Total.....

- ... 146



(See p. 499) Mr. Johnsox of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that if the Park Service can mimeograph these circulars, and do it with no expense, that certainly this committee ought to encourage them in doing that. Insofar as I am concerned, as one member of the committee, I am in favor of putting language in here that will encourage that, and will not permit the Comptroller General to knock it out.

Mr. SCRIGHAM. "That is, you would specifically authorize them to do it?

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Yes, sir; specifically authorize them to do it.

Mr. DEMARAY. The expense, of course, is involved in the paper, but the personnel is already employed there. The National Park Service does not have any printing establishment whatever, it is the Department Duplicating Section that has done this work up to the present time, and all we have had to pay for is the cost of the paper alone, so that it is a very small charge against our appropriation, while if we had to send it to the Printing Office, we would not only have to pay for the cost of the paper, but pay for the cost of labor of all of those engaged on that work, because the Government Printing Office naturally charges for the cost of production.

(Language to accomplish Congressman Johnson's suggestion is given below:)

Prorided. That leaflets concerning the national parks, monuments, and other areas administered by the National Park Service, mav, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be produced with multilthing, multigraphing, and mimeographing facilities of the Department.



Mr. SO'RIGHAN. Mr. ('ammerer, how many C. C. C. camps are assigned to the National Park Service? We would like your cominent on the value of such assignments to the Park Service.

Mr. Johnsox of Oklahoma. And would you also state the number of C.C. ('. camps that you are losing or have lost up to the 1st of this month, and the number you will lose when the six hundred and thirty-odd camps are abandoned on July 1?

Mr. CAMMERER. I am going to ask Mr. Demaray to answer that question, because he has all of the facts in this book before him. Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Demaray. Mr. DEMARAY. The number of camps last October assigned to the National Park Service was 77, and there were 354 assigned to our State Park Division.

On April 1, 1937, the number of camps assigned to the National Park Service was 90. The number of State camps was 324. As we are the liaison bureau for the Interior Department with the Emergency Conservation Division, I will give you the number of camps assigned to the other bureaus.

The Division of Grazing on October 1 last had 45 camps assigned to them, and on April 1, 1937, they had 45 camps assigned to them.

The Bureau of Reclamation on October 1 had 34 camps assigned to them, and on April 1 they continued with 34 camps.

The General Land Office had none on October 1 and will have two on April 1. During the last enrollment period the Interior Department had 510 camps, and on April 1 they had 495 camps.



The Department of Agriculture had, on October 1, 1,505 camps, and on April 1 they had 1,437 camps.


The War and Navy Departments together had 77 camps on October 1, and on April 1 they had 68. So, there has been a reduction of all agencies, from 2,092 to 2,000 camps. Mr. SCRUGHAM. That has already occurred? Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir; that has already occurred. Mr. SCRUGHAM. What number is expected to be lost as of July 1? Mr. DEMARAY. Well, no one knows, as far as I know. Mr. SCRCGHAM. You have no orders for that? Mr. DEMARAY. No, sir; not yet.


Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Well, it is proposed to reduce the camps to 1,456 on July 1. Of course, there are a great many Members of Congress who are opposed to that reduction, and we hope it will not be done, but I was wondering in case that is done how many you will


Mr. DEMARAY. It is assumed that there will be a proportionate cut between the departments. We have anticipated that there might be some cut in the number.

Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Then on April 1 you lost only 15 camps.
You had 510 camps, and the number is now reduced to 495.

Mr. DEMARAY. That is right; yes, sir. That is for the whole
Interior Department.
Mr. Johnson of Oklahoma. Well, you fared well.
Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. JohnSON of Oklahoma. The Soil Conservation lost 25, and they have only 450, and they will lose 112 on July 1, if the present plans go through.

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir; I believe that is correct.



Mr. SCRIGHAM. Will you submit for the record a statement of the amount authorized by P. W. A. for physical improvements, and for roads and trails in the National Park area?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes; I have that data here. I might submit that right at the present time, if you wish.

Amounts authorized for Public Works projects, classified for areas, for physical im

provements, for roads and trails, and combined total for each area, as of Mar. 1, 1937

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Amounts authorized for Public Works projects, classified for areas, for physical im

provements, for roads and trails, and combined total for each area, as of Mar. 1, 1937—Continued

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