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Parking jees—Continued
Guilford Courthouse National Military Park..
Petersburg National Military Park.
Shiloh National Military Park...
Vicksburg National Military Park

A small parking fee is included for those areas for which no automobile or motorcycle permits are proposed and where a special provision has been made available for visitors to park while inspecting attractions located therein.

.........

-...

10 10

Guide fees
Fort Marion National Monument...-
Fort Pulaski National Monument..
Fort McHenry National Park (the inner fort).--.
Colonial National Historical Park:

Moore House, including parking privilege..

Swan Tavern, including parking privilege... Guide fees are recommended for these historic areas for the visitors that desire to take advantage of the periodical tours that will be available during which experienced service personnel explain in detail the events that justify establishment as national reservations to preserve the areas involving sites of national significance.

Elevator fees Statue of Liberty.

cccccccccccccccccccccccc. SO. 10 The visitors to the Statue of Liberty who use the elevator for the wonderful view from the head of the Statue should not object to the small fee of 10 cents proposed for that service. It is estimated that 250,000 people will take advantage of the opportunity resulting in an increased revenue of $25,000 annually.

Miscellaneous Mount Rainier National Park, registration fee for summit climb........ $1.00

It will be necessary to furnish special service for those visitors to Mount Rainier National Park who wish to climb the mountain, providing detailed instructions as to dress, methods, and precautions necessary for their protection, and a registration system for checking their return from the climb. Estimated annual revenue from the present fees, with the proposed additions and increases.--..

----------------. $1, 468, 450 Estin ated total annual revenue, together with miscellaneous receipts. 1, 744, 780 Total appropriation for the fiscal year 1937..--------------- 2, 439, 300

It is considered that those who make use of the park roads should make a special contribution toward their maintenance. Many of the States have estabIshed fees for admission to their State parks and other recreational areas. The National Park Service does not propose to charge for admission to the areas it admunisters, but only for the privilege of operating automobiles, house trailers, ar.d motorcycles over the park roads which have been constructed and mainiained by the Federal Government.

In connection with the revenues which the National Park Service derives from the public for the use of facilities and for certain services rendered it should be pointed out that other Government bureaus and departirents which maintain areas used by the public for recreational purposes make no charges for such use.

Mr. Johnson. I did not quite understand the statement in report with reference to fees for automobiles. Do you mean mobile licenses?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir; for automobile licenses.
Mr. CAMMERER. For road use.

M. SCRUGHAM. There is a tag now required tr corresponds to an automobile license.

Mr. JOHNSON. When you enter the park?
Mr. DEMARAY. When you enter the park.

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Automobile permits-Continued
Rocky Mountain National Park....
Shenandoah National Park..

Trip permit
Colorado National Monument.
Petrified Forest National Monument
Trip permit......

Motorcycle permits
Bryce Canyon National Park ---
Grand Teton National Park..
Rocky Mountain National Park
Shenandoah National Park..

Trip permit.-- ------
Colorado National Monument....
Petrified Forest National Monument ..

Trip permit... In a few areas where there is considerable through travel which could use park roads as an alternate route, such as the Shenandoah and Petrified Forest, singletrip permits have been suggested in addition to the annual permits.

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House trailer permils
Bryce Canyon and Zion National Parks and Cedar Breaks National

Monument.....
Crater Lake National Park....
Glacier National Park
Grand (anyon National Park
Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks
Lassen Volcanic National Park...
Mesa Verde National Park..
Mount Rainier National Park....
Rocky Mountain Vational Park -
Sequoia and General Grant National Park
Shenandoah National Park....

1. 00 Trip permit....

25 Yosemite National Park

00 Colorado National Monument ..... Petrified Forest National Monument..

Trip permit...... House trailers are new problems in park travel and require special consideration, Owners want utility connections which only a few parks are in a position to provide. It is felt that if such utility connections are to be provided users should be expected to pay and these fees can determine the extent and need for such provisions.

Parking sees
Abraham Lincoln National Park
Acadia National Park..
Hawaii National Park ...
Platt .lational Park .
Black Canson or llie Gurrison Vational Monumen,
(rates of the Moon National Monument...
Death Valles National Monument.
Devis Tower Wat.onal Monument
(ieorge Washington Birti plare Jational Monument ....
Lava Beds.at.onal Non erit
Mur Woods . Vatios' Monument
Pinnales at No.11.c.
Scot'. B''

T atot.al . nt
Sout'inestemnational Volthiets
Morntoni Vatiosul stral Park..
(out ! Natural Historical Park
("cha (1 179ooga grlo. al Vary Park
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t ashvaria Count Battlefie Mourial Vatrol.al M:1.tary Park

. 25

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-------------- $0. 10

Parking fees--Continued Guilford Courthouse National Military Park..

$0. 25 Petersburg National Military Park.--. Shiloh National Military Park.--Vicksburg National Military Park..

. 25 A small parking fee is included for those areas for which no automobile or motorcycle permits are proposed and where a special provision has been made available for visitors to park while inspecting attractions located therein.

Guide fees
Fort Marion National Monument.-----
Fort Pulaski National Monument.
Fort McHenry National Park (the inner fort).-
Colonial National Historical Park:

Moore House, including parking privilege.---

Swan Tavern, including parking privilege.-----------------------Guide fees are recommended for these historic areas for the visitors that desire to take advantage of the periodical tours that will be available during which experienced service personnel explain in detail the events that justify establishment as national reservations to preserve the areas involving sites of national significance.

Elevator fees Statue of Liberty...

------- $0.10 The visitors to the Statue of Liberty who use the elevator for the wonderful view from the head of the Statue should not object to the small fee of 10 cents proposed for that service. It is estimated that 250,000 people will take advantage of the opportunity resulting in an increased revenue of $25,000 annually.

A5 PISA

Miscellaneous Mount Rainier National Park, registration fee for summit climb.--.---- $1.00

It will be necessary to furnish special service for those visitors to Mount Rainier National Park who wish to climb the mountain, providing detailed instructions as to dress, methods, and precautions necessary for their protection, and a registration system for checking their return from the climb. Estimated annual revenue from the present fees, with the proposed additions and increases.-

- $1, 468, 450 Estin ated total annual revenue, together with miscellaneous receipts. 1, 744, 780 Total appropriation for the fiscal year 1937..-.

2, 439, 300 It is considered that those who make use of the park roads should make a special contribution toward their maintenance. Many of the States have established fees for admission to their State parks and other recreational areas. The National Park Service does not propose to charge for admission to the areas it administers, but only for the privilege of operating automobiles, house trailers, ard motorcycles over the park roads which have been constructed and mainlained by the Federal Government.

In connection with the revenues which the National Park Service derives from the public for the use of facilities and for certain services rendered it should be pointed out that other Government bureaus and departments which maintain areas used by the public for recreational purposes make no charges for such use.

Mr. Johnson. I did not quite understand the statement in that report with reference to fees for automobiles. Do you mean automobile licenses?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir; for automobile licenses.
Mr. CAMMERER. For road use.

Mr. SCRIGHAM. There is a tag now required to be bought which corresponds to an automobile license.

Mr. Johnson. When you enter the park?
Mr. DEMARAY. When you enter the park.

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Mr. JOHNSON. And those cost the amounts that you have read for the different parks?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. CAMMERER. May I interpolate?

It is not a license tag to be affixed to a car. They get a printed slip which they can show, and can use as many times as they want to during the year.

Mr. Johnson. Coming back to that report, that $1.50 charge that you read, was that per person?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. Johnson. That seems very high to me.

Mr. CAMMERER. That is what they charge in Virginia, at the Luray Caverns.

Mr. Johnson. Yes; and I understand that in New Mexico, at Carlsbad, they charge $2.

Mr. CAMMERER. $1.50, and we never had a complaint.
Mr. Johnson. I have had some complaints.

Mr. SCRIGHAM. I did not hear you mention Lassen Volcanic National Park.

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir. There is a see there at the present time. Mr. SCRUGHAM. Is that in the list that you read?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir. At Lassen Volcanic National Park, the fee is $1 at present.

Mr. SCRIGHAM. I assume that the reason you charge $3 at Yellowstone and $1 in most of the others, is that Yellowstone has three times as much road?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir; and about three times as many facilities.

Mr. Johnson. I realize the necessity for getting fees, but it occurs to me that $3 is excessive for Yellowstone National Park.

Mr. CAMMERER. It used to be $7.50, and it was reduced to $3.
Mr. DEMARAY. It was reduced to $5, and then to $3.

Mr. JOHNSON. You could make it $100 and still a great many people could go there and it would not hurt them, but in my country there is not a great percentage of our people who go to Yellowstone, but we have school boys and school girls who like to go out there, and I have had complaints that the cost is excessive. Of course, the more you charge the more that the people in my State will go to other places. Very few of my people are able to go out there, but if I lived in that area I certainly would protest against what I thought was an excessive charge, not only in Yellowstone but in several others.

Mr. Rich. Your receipts from these national parks are $1,131,000?
Mr. DEMARAY. It is $1,091,000.
Mr. Rich. I take that figure from page 7 of your justification.
Mr. DEMARAY. There may be a difference of figures, depending -- --

Mr. Rich. In 1917, 1918, 1919, and 1920, the appropriation inade for the upkeep of thrup parks was less than a million dollars. Today you are asking for $ 16,000,000, 16 times more than it cost 20 year ago to operate these parks, and each year, the way that we are spending money, it is going to be an added cont. So if you do not get fres from the people who use these parks, where will you get the money!

Mr. CAMMERER. We must not forget that Congress is authorising additional park areas every once in a while.

Mr. Roh But you have increase this 16 times in 20 years, and in practically everything that this Interior Department is engaged you are asking for an increas, it seems to me.

thance and that Jus

Mr. Scrugham. Just a minute. That is a little bit unfair. Don't you realize that nearly half of that is for the operation and maintenance and buildings in the city of Washington, and I am quite certain that it includes all of the buildings and structures in Washington.

Mr. Rich. I am willing to have that put in the record, but I was thinking that it was only for these public parks.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. I am sure you do not mean to be unfair. Mr. Rich. I certainly do not, but I was looking at this table on page 5, which gives the data with respect to the jurisdiction of the National Park Service.

Mr. DEMARAY. That includes the public buildings of the District of Columbia.

Mr. Rich. Then you might enlarge on that table, and give us what you paid 10 years ago, and what the increased expansion has been in public parks, and roads, what that increase would amount to.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. And at the same time insert the increase in the number of visitors.

Mr. DEMARAY. If I might confine it to the question of administration, maintenance, and operation of these parks, and use as an illustration the total appropriation for that purpose, in 1937 it was only $2,439,300. The balance of the $16,000,000 was for construction of roads and trails and the operation of buildings in the District of Columbia, and it is estimated that the annual revenue from the fees that we propose would amount to $1,468,450, or nearly one-half of the actual cost of administering and maintaining these parks. Mr. Rich. Then you would receive about one-half of that amount?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir. We exclude from this the capital expenditures, because eventually the park road system will be completed, the parkways which are authorized will be completed so that we can eventually count on being down to a purely maintenance and operation basis. Mr. Rich. You charge a fee for use of the Sky Line Drive?

Mr. DEMARAY. That is in the Shenandoah Park, and that is estimated at $1. We have not established it as yet, but we are proposing it.

Mr. Rich. And when they put that Doughton Highway through from Smoky Mountain to the Shenandoah

Mr. DEMARAY. A fee will be charged for that. Mr. Rich. What is the attitude of the Department of the Interior on that? Do they expect to continue that charge?

Mr. DEMARAY. Yes, sir.

Mr. CAMMERER. These parks are scattered all over the United States, and there is no instruction of Congress in its statutes that lees must be charged in these areas, except in one instance, where there is a law that I remember

Mr. DEMARAY. Congress says that we shall not charge for camping.

Mr. CAMMERER. That was put in by your appropriations committees some years ago. The exaction of fees comes within the administrative power of the Secretary of the Interior, and from the beginning it was always discussed and frankly discussed with the members of this committee, and as the membership of the committee changed from year to year, there has always been the utmost frankness on our part as to what the fees should be, and in the early days even 8 $7.50 fee had the tacit approval of this committee. Then it was

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