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fields have actually settled from 6 inches to 2 feet, and they have to be surrounded with dikes to keep the water off of them at all. When the flow of the Sacramento River is low salt water comes in through the channels which run all through the delta. It is ruinous to this rich land, which produces asparagus, celery, and other vegetable and truck crops. These crops must be irrigated to mature. The salt water from San Francisco Bay plays havoc here. Now, by keeping these channels full of fresh water from the Sacramento River, and from the San Joaquin River, the salt water is held back. Any subirrigation or flood irrigation by fresh water is of direct benefit to the fields. Saline encroachment is a very grave problem in the delta section, and its prevention is to be one of the big benefits of the Central Valley project.

Mr. LEAVY. Does the rise and fall of the tides affect that region there?

Mr. PAGE. They determine, of course, the height to which the salt water reaches when the flow of the Sacramento is low.

Mr. LEAVY. Will a single flood of salt water on a field destroy the field?

Mr. PAGE. Yes; almost entirely. At certain times in the growth of the crop salt-water irrigation would ruin it.

PURPOSES FOR WHICH APPROPRIATED FUNDS AND EMERGENCY FUNDS HAVE BEEN USED

Mr. RICH. Of course, there is no use in my going into the matter of power projects, but there is one thing that struck me very forcibly in the letter which was given to me by the Interior Department and the engineers of the State of California with respect to the Central Valley project. You have been given from Emergency Relief funds $4,500,000 for that project, and, by congressional appropriation, $6,900,000.

Mr. PAGE. We were originally given $15,000,000 from the emergency appropriation, and it has been reduced successively to a balance of $4,500,000.

Mr. RICH. The money that has been spent up to this time on that project has been for the purpose of building dams, something that can be utilized even if you would not get additional funds to continue the project?

Mr. PAGE. NO. That money completes no single feature of the project.

Mr. RICH. What has the money been spent for?

Mr. PAGE. The money has been spent for investigations and preliminary work. We are about to award a contract now for construction of a canal. When a contract is let for Kennett Dam or the Friant Dam, larger amounts will be involved; the former will cost about $70,000,000 and the latter about $14,000,000.

Mr. RICH. And they could be used for flood control or the more regular flow of water during the course of the year, could they not? Mr. PAGE. Each of these dams will serve a very useful purpose for flood control and river regulation. It is interesting to note, however, that the beneficiaries from the use of water which will be made available, and those who use the power, must pay back all of the costs of these structures. In other words, the total cost of these

dams is chargeable to the irigation and power users, even though they do serve other purposes, and serve them well and valuably.

Mr. LEAVY. But the present state of development is not such that they could be used for anything if you had no authorization for them at the end of this fiscal year?

Mr. PAGE. No, sir.

Mr. RICH. What river are they constructed on?

Mr. PAGE. Kennett is on the Sacramento River, and Friant is on the San Joaquin.

Mr. RICH. The San Joaquin River is the one that you are trying to furnish water for, is it?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. The San Joaquin River Valley.

Mr. RICH. If you had the dam, and could continue to have the flow of water more regularly, would that not serve the purpose! Mr. PAGE. Perhaps I had better outline the plan for that project, in order that you may get a better picture.

The San Joaquin water is almost entirely used. There is some of it that goes to waste in floods; some of it is used on poor land. but there is an inadequate supply for the total area tributary to that river. A large part of the land was supplied from numerous wells which have now been depleted. There is insufficient water in the San Joaquin Valley to replenish these wells naturally and, in addition, to supply water for the orchards and the lands in that section. Mr. RICH. If that is the case, then that dam that you are con structing there will certainly be of great value to that particular location in conserving and storing that water, would it not?

Mr. PAGE. This dam certainly will be of great value. There are rights existing on that river for practically all of the water that is available. The only way that the over-all deficiency can be made up is by importing into the San Joaquin Valley, water from the Sacramento River. But to export Sacramento River water without damages to navigation and aggravation of salt water encroachment in the delta, it is necessary to store and regulate the flow of the Sacramento Channel.

While the Friant Dam will regulate the San Joaquin, it will not produce enough water for all needs. It must be supplemented by importation of water from the Sacramento River, where there is s surplus to be stored and used.

Mr. RICH. You have an oversupply of water in the Sacramento Valley?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. There is a surplus there over all needs.
Mr. RICH. At all seasons of the year?

Mr. PAGE. No; not at all seasons of the year, when the river is unregulated. The total run-off of the Sacramento River, if regu lated, is much more than is required in the Sacramento Valley.

Mr. RICH. Then if you build these projects as contemplated, you will store enough water so as to have a regulated flow?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. Both streams will be regulated and all parts of the Central Valley will benefit.

Mr. RICH. Will the amount of water that you are able to store on the Sacramento River be sufficient to take care of the Sacramento Valley and the San Joaquin Valley?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. Both of them.

Mr. RICH. What authority have you for that?

Mr. PAGE. There has been a long comprehensive survey and study by a large number of Federal agencies, including Army engineers, the Federal Power Commission, our Bureau, and one or two others. In addition, about a million dollars has been spent on that work by the State itself. The records are complete insofar as the assurance is concerned that there is sufficient water in the Sacramento today to do all the things required. It will first furnish 5,000 cubic feet per second for an aid to navigation in the lower Sacramento. The storage will aid in control of the floods. Regulation of the stream will prevent the encroachment of salt water from the bay in the delta area, and retention of the floodwaters will provide enough water to make up for the deficiency in the San Joaquin River.

The storage dam in the Sacramento River will hold somewhere from three to four million acre-feet. A large storage dam is necessary to perform all of the functions required of the Sacramento River.

Mr. RICH. Have all of the engineers who have gone over this proposal and made a study of it reported that there will be enough water for the two valleys?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir.

Mr. LEAVY. Do you generate any power in the utilization of this water?

Mr. PAGE. Yes. There is a 400,000 kilowatt-hour plant contemplated in connection with the Kennett River Dam.

Mr. LEAVY. And the receipts from that will go to the reclamation fund?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. They will help to repay the cost of this project, as will the sale of water to the beneficiaries.

Mr. RICH. Then, it is the idea to store this water on the Sacramento River, and then, by a system of dams, pumping it back up the San Joaquin. How many miles will that have to be taken back through this series of dams?

Mr. PAGE. I will have to look that up. It goes way back to Mendota, which is about half way between the mouth and Fresno. I am told it is about 165 miles.

Mr. RICH. What elevation are they going to raise that water? Mr. PAGE. One hundred and sixty feet.

Mr. RICH. And for 165 miles they expect to force it up the San Joaquin?

Mr. PAGE. The present plans contemplate a series of 10 dams, and the pumping will be done over these dams. There will be a pool above each dam running back for many miles.

ESTIMATES COST OF CENTRAL VALLEY PROJECT

Mr. RICH. And you figure that the total cost of all of the dams, and all of the power projects, is going to be $170,000,000? Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir. That has been carefully checked.

Mr. RICH. How do you reconcile that with the statement made by the State Water Planning Commission of California, when they claim that the cost of these surface-storage units, the number of reservoirs, which would be 24, and the number of reservoirs with power devices, 13, with an accurate storage capacity of 17,817,000 acre-feet, would

be-I am referring to the capital cost-excluding the power plant, $492,200,000, and including the power plant, $595,900,000, which would make a total of $1,088,000,000, and the letter that we received from the secretary of our committee, relating to the Central Valley project, which was requested to be sent to us by Mr. Taylor, in the second paragraph, said:

The estimated cost of the ultimate plan of development for the Central Valley project, covering the main storage and conveyance units only, totals $682,400,000. Why do we have this proposal sent to us, with a total cost of this project over $682,000,000, when the project that you have listed here is $170,000,000?

Mr. PAGE. The Central Valley project will cost $170,000,000. The big figure you refer to is the estimate of cost set up by the State for the State water plan. The State water plan has no connection with the Central Valley project as we set it up. As a result of the State's study, it arrived at this figure of 24 dams and 13 power plants, or whatever number it was that you read. This plan covers the whole State. It would conserve all of the water of the State and put it to its greatest beneficial use. It would do all the work needed in the future, at any time in the distant future.

On the other hand, the Central Valley project which we have undertaken, while it fits into their general plan for the ultimate State developments, does not go beyond the features which I have mentioned, and they form a complete project in themselves. It is what is needed now. So that there is no commitment or no plan for the United States to participate any further than in the features which I have described, and which will cost $170,000,000, and which comprise the Central Valley project, now a pressing need.

The plan which you have outlined is the objective toward which the State is pointing in order to have a full utilization of all the water and land resources within the State. It will require many, many years-generations or centuries-under any conditions to con

summate.

Mr. RICH. If it is going to require this comprehensive plan by the State Water Board of California to do the job right, how are you going to be able to spend $170,000,000 and secure water enough to take care of the plant that they would like to have taken care of, inles sthey are going to come back here and ask us to make up the lifference between $170,000,000 and $682,400,000?

Mr. PAGE. I can't forecast what the State will do, but I can say hat insofar as the Central Valley project of California is concernedour project-which is now before the committee, there is no obligaion or any plan to put in features not included in the Central Valley project, which will cost to complete $170,000,000. The State water plan involves the storage of large quantities of water which are not involved in connection with this Central Valley project as we contemplate it. Their plans also involve irrigation of large areas of vacant dry land which are not included in any plan for the Central Valley project. What the State's ultimate plan of development will be I cannot pretend to forecast. I can say what the plans of the Bureau are, and they are as I have stated them here.

Mr. RICH. How long have you been with the Government, Mr. Page?

Mr. PAGE. I have not been in Washington very long, since April 1935. I have been with the Government for 27 or 28 years, working in many capacities for the Bureau of Reclamation.

Mr. RICH. With your experience in Government bureaus and the various requests from localities, how long do you think it will be before the State of California and the Members of Congress will be after us for the difference between these two figures, or $512,000,000, to complete the California project?

Mr. PAGE. I cannot answer that question. The State of California has a plan for its development just as Montana has, and as Washingto has and as every other State has. There is no reason why that plan should be made a factor in considering a project, such as this one, which is self-contained and complete in itself. The Central Valley project as it is now planned is self-contained and complete. It fills present needs and meets present problems. There is no commitment upon us to bring in other features.

Mr. RICH. Yes; but a lot of these other factors are those that vitally affect this Central Valley.

Mr. PAGE. No; they are auxiliary to and in addition to the Central Valley project.

Mr. RICH. But they are located in the Central Valley the greatest part of them.

Mr. PAGE. They are located in the mountains both to the south and to the east of the present development for the Central Valley.

Mr. RICH. But they are in the Central Valley.

Mr. PAGE. They are in a part of the Central Valley only which is not now under cultivation, and all of which is not now included in the proposed Central Valley project. They are in California, just as one project is in California.

Mr. RICH. That may possibly be because you are taking out the section of the territory nearest to the mouth of these two rivers, but the ultimate development of this whole territory will necessarily fall upon someone to go ahead and complete the development, and the chances are that they will call upon the Government to do so. I think your experience here with the Government will show you that when they start something these engineers want to go ahead and complete it, and they call upon the Government to do it. Is that not a fact?

Mr. PAGE. That may be true, but, on the other hand, this Central Valley project contemplates a complete development in itself. It will supply water to save lands which are now under cultivation but which are going back to desert because of an insufficient water supply. The long-range State plan contemplates the addition of areas of raw land which at the present time is not in the irrigated area in the Central Valley of California. I repeat that our Central Valley project, as it has been described, is a complete entity in itself and presents no commitment for the development of this other land. Admittedly the States will continue to ask Congress to develop other features of their plans of development, but there is no commitment made by the Department in undertaking this project to undertake to put water on those additional lands or to build any other features of the long-range plan of the State.

Mr. RICH. Have you been over the Central Valley project, Mr. Page?

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