work, the duties of the office are far more exacting than formerly, due to the strenuous competition encountered in the bidding, the requirements of the office of the Comptroller General and the consequent need for exercising greater care in the preparation of specifications and advertisements, the analysis of bids, the awarding of contracts, etc., which can be taken care of only through adequate personnel. The increase requested will bring the total number of employees for the division to 52.

The new positions requested are as follows:

In considering an increase in this tiem for the fiscal year 1938, it should be noted that, notwithstanding the tremendous increases of work in the Secretary's office during the past few years, funds have been provided for but one additional position namely the position of Under Secretary established by the 1936 Appropriation Act, at a salary of $10,000. In fact, the appropriations since the fiscal year 1934 have reflected a 10 percent reduction made necessary in 1934 by the limitation placed on expenditures during that year. Other changes in the appropriations have involved the transfer of positions either to or from other appropriations as shown in the following tabulation:

Appropriated 1934 (92% salaries) _ .

Less: Amount reserved from expenditure...

Net amount available in 1934.

Transfers to other appropriations:

Division of Investigations..

Division of Disbursements..

Division of Territories_ _ _ _

Transfers from other appropriations:

United States Geographic Board

Bureau of Insular Affairs (for Division of Territories).

Increases allowed:

For salary restoration__.

For Division of Territories (transferred to the division as shown above) _

For Under Secretary

Appropriated 1936 and 1937, and base for 1938_

Increases requested for 1938:

Transferred from National Park Service..
New positions---

Estimate of appropriation for 1938..

$372, 420

35, 687

336, 733

6, 500 14, 022 38, 620

8, 010

12, 761

58,749

25, 859 10, 000

392, 970

7,840 45, 700

446, 510

Beginning with the fiscal year 1934 the work of all divisions of the Secretary's office has been materially increased as a result of the many functions added to the Department since that time. The new or expanded activities not only have burdened the Secretary and other officials with additional responsibilities but have required a great amount of detailed work as well in the handling of purchases, duplicating work, personnel matters, and a great volume of correspondence incident thereto. For example, the Appointment Division is now handling the appointments and status changes for some 6,000 additional employees, and during the past 3 years the amount of work in the purchasing and duplicating offices for the Department has practically doubled. The additional positions requested for these offices are by no means proportionate to the increased volume of work.

NEED FOR ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Burlew, have you any general statement to make?

Mr. BURLEW. No, I do not have any general statement to make. The increases are explained in the justification, which I would like to have made a part of the record, and they are due to transfers from the National Park Service, reallocation of positions, and certain new positions that we will need in connection with the new building which we are about to move into.

Then we have 12 new positions in the Secretary's office, due to increases in work, that the Bureau of the Budget has allowed. There has been a general increase in the Department's work, all of which is reflected in the Secretary's office. We have had very few additions to the staff in the last few years to take care of that increase.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. You are asking for a net increase of 29 new employees, and an increase of $53,540 in appropriations?

Mr. BURLEW. Yes, sir.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Will you give a little more detail as to the need for these new positions?

Mr. BURLEW. The $7,800 is by transfer from the Park Service, and that is deducted from the Park Service estimates. That is in our Division of Motion Pictures. Then there are 13 new positions in the new building, telephone operators, necessary additional messengers, and library employees.

We would like to set up an information clerk who will take care of people in that large building, to save the time of the public. She will have all of the information about the functions of the Department, and where the people are located, and will direct the visitors.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. You are planning on having a dispensary there? Mr. BURLEW. Yes; we have one now in the old Interior Building, but inasmuch as most of the employees in the old Interior Building are Public Works employees, we have staffed that dipensary with Public Works employees. When we move to the new building we will have almost 5,000 employees and we will have to have a dispensary there. We will continue the one in the old Interior Building.

Mr. JOHNSON. I notice you say that "she" will be an additional person to give information as to the different activities, and that "she" will do so and so.

Mr. BURLEW. We have a woman now who is very competent, that we have been training for several months in the old building, one of the regular employees.

Mr. JOHNSON. I have observed that in most instances departments have men doing that work, and I am wondering if women would not be just as efficient.

Mr. BURLEW. We think that this woman is very competent for it. Mr. JOHNSON. I think that that is a very important place, because the public is entitled to courtesy and efficient and correct information when visiting a building of that magnitude. It is very helpful to me, when I go into the entrance of an office building, if I can get the correct information immediately.

Mr. BURLEW. And the guard force is not equipped for it. We have been experimenting in our present building, and we find that it has worked very well in the last 2 or 3 months.

USES AND VALUE OF THE MOTION PICTURE DIVISION

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Mr. Burlew, what are the uses and value of th Motion Picture Division? Is that a new division?

Mr. BURLEW. We have always had motion-picture work, but wher the E. C. W. came into existence we enlarged it very materially ou of E. C. W. funds, and we have had an audience of about 10 millio people for our motion pictures, mainly in E. C. W. camps. We have 40 subjects that we circulate, and over 700 films constantly ser

around.

Mr. SCRUGHAM. Do you make a charge in connection with th exhibition of those films?

Mr. BURLEW. No, there is no charge. They are mainly circulate in E. C. W. camps, and we figure that the advertising that we ge through churches, schools, and other groups is sufficient compensation Mr. JOHNSON. What do they show?

Mr. BURLEW. They are mainly on conservation. It is the work performed by the E. C. W. employees in soil conservation, and the also cover our national parks, Indians, and things of that sort, whic are the functions of the Department.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you put out the picture that illustrates the lives of people in the agricultural regions in this country, as well as its Russia and other European countries?

Mr. BURLEW. No; I think that that was a Department of Agricul ture picture, not ours. We have nothing like that. Some of the titles of these pictures are "Winter Sun and Summer Time", "Land of the Giants", "A Nation-Wide System of Parks", "Water Lure' "Pilgrim Tourists", "Summer Snow in the Rockies", "Glimpses of National Parks", "See Yosemite National Park", and "Visit Mes Verde National Park."

Those pictures advertise the parks, and we felt that we were well resid for giving them to the schools, the churches and the various societies that view them.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you have your own plant?

Mr. BURLEW. Yes; we have an up-to-date motion-picture labo ratory.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. I mean for getting out pamphlets and advertise ments for your pictures and other information pertaining to you Department.

Mr. BURLEW. That is right. We send those out. We circularize the people.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Do you get them up just in your Department? Mr. BURLEW. Oh, yes.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. By whom?

Mr. BURLEW. It is done by the Motion Picture Division and our Office of Information.

Mr. FITZPATRICK Are the people that work on these union printers Mr. BURLEW. Oh, no. The duplication work is done in our Miscellaneous Service Section, where we use multigraph, multilith, and mimeograph machines.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. You take any ordinary clerk to do that?

Mr. BURLEW. That is right.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. And that does away with the necessity of a lot of printers, does it not?

Mr. BURLEW. We do not think so, for the reason that if a printing stablishment attempted to do this, they would find that the work is ery different than regular printing. They would have to set up a arate establishment, and it would be unwise to spend a great deal money to that end. Much of this is done on the mimeograph and "multigraph, and it is of a temporary nature. We do not think - we are robbing anybody of a living.

Mr FITZPATRICK. Do you get any complaints along that nature? Mr BURLEW. No; we have not directly, but we understand that " Comptroller General and some of the unions have objected to troduction work of that kind. I have some samples here to show

gentlemen on the committee, if you would like to see them. Mr RICH. What is the object of these moving pictures? Is it to sivertise the parks, to give the people a knowledge of them, or what e motive for establishing this Division?

Mr BURLEW. It is twofold. One is to inform the people of the betion of government, and the other is to advertise the parks and attract them to visit the parks.

Mr. RICH. Do you have anything in these moving pictures outside advertising the beauty of our parks, and advertising America, we say? Are there any other features in them that would cause Te to criticize?

Mr BURLEW. Absolutely not, Mr. Rich. In fact, we have very plimentary letters on these pictures. There is no propaganda in at all, and the bulk of the pictures are in connection with E. C. W. , and that is educational entirely. They are circulated mainlylin C. W. camps so that the boys can learn what is being done in the C. W. camps.

M: RICH. Do you permit these pictures of yours to go out into munities where other people can view them?

Mr BURLEW. Oh, yes; we are very glad to circulate them, and we constantly.

Mr RICH. Do you do that with your own employees, or do you send the reels?

Mr BURLEW. No; we just send the reels and we let them show them, ; make no charge, because we figure that the advertisement that Government gets out of those reels is sufficient compensation. Mr RICH. Are they contemplated to aid the "See America First" Rosement?

Mr BURLEW. Yes, sir; that is what we are trying to do, trying to D some of the people here.

Mr SCRUGHAM. To remain in this country and to see the things at this country has to show, rather than to spend their money in Countries?

Mr. BURLEW. That is it.

ID FOR ADDITIONAL MESSENGERS IN THE DIVISION OF MAILS AND

FILES

Mr. SRUGHAM. In the Division of Mails and Files you are asking two additional messengers at $1,260 per annum.

is going through the Government departments I have been struck ...y by the large number of messengers sitting around, apparently Lng for something to do, and it is my impression that, not neces

sarily in the Interior Department but generally speaking, the casual visitor gets the idea that they have a good many more messengers than are being used.

In this particular case, do you think that you could get by with one additional messenger?

Mr. BURLEW. I may say that I have the same impression that you have as I visit the Government departments, including our own, but unless you have messengers in waiting, you defeat your own purpose. We have tried to congregate the messengers, and that is what makes it look so bad. We do not as a rule assign a messenger to one particular man or to one particular division. We congregate them in a central pool, and they answer calls for a large number of people, and at times it may look as though we have a lot of people loafing around.

We have a comparatively small staff of messengers in the Secretary's Office, and when we move in the new building, as I have explained in the justification, the distances are so great-it is two city blocks in length and one block in width-that we feel that we are very modest in having asked for two. The Bureau of the Budget has agreed to it.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. What percentage of all the money appropriated for the Department of the Interior is spent here in the District of Columbia?

Mr. BURLEW. I would have to figure that out. It is a very small percentage, though.

Mr. FITZPATRICK. Very small?

Mr. BURLEW. Exceptionally small; yes.

(NOTE. The information may be found on p. 55.)

USE AND TRANSFER OF UNOBLIGATED AND UNEXPENDED BALANCES

Mr. O'NEAL. May I ask something as a new man on this committee?

Do you in the Secretary's Office check over the budgets of all of the bureaus in your Department, to make sure that all of the money is actually needed? In reading the justifications, it has appealed to me, from what little I know about it, that it must necessarily be that in some parts of the Department the work will at times diminish almost to the vanishing point, and in other parts it will increase, and yet, in the appropriations that we are asked to make, we have certain items that are fairly stationary for years.

How is that situation balanced, and what does the Secretary's Office do about it?

Mr. BURLEW. We have no central financial officer. The nearest approach to it is myself, as budget officer, and we do carefully review these budgets.

Mr. O'NEAL. If a bureau does not use all of the money appropriated for it, what becomes of that money? Do they have the right to allocate it to somebody else?

Mr. BURLEW. Not at all. It is returned to the Treasury.

Mr. O'NEAL. As a matter of fact, I noticed that something of this kind was referred to in last year's hearings, and I was wondering what, if anything, has been done since the hearing last year to change it. The statement was plainly made there by the gentlemen testifying that they had surpluses in certain departments, and they auto