dam for both irrigation and power purposes. We should develop the latter, in order to pay for the former. Mr. LEAVY. And the area immediately contiguous to that, MI Secretary, and your geological staff has made its findings and report on it, and I know it to be a fact, is a highly mineralized area that would consume tremendous amounts of electric energy at a low cost if it wer available. Secretary ICKES. I think that is true. Mr. LEAVY. And this project is susceptible of developing something like 2 million horsepower of electric energy. Secretary ICKES. I do not carry such large figures in mind. I car remember how much money I was given as Public Works Adminis trator, but I cannot carry all of these other figures in mind. Mr. LEAVY. And the cost of it, as reported by your engineer in charge, Mr. Banks, is a fraction over one mill per kilowatt-hour, that is, the cost of generation. Secretary ICKES. Yes; I think it would be an exceedingly low cost Mr. FITZPATRICK. To whom would you distribute that tremendous amount of electric energy? Secretary ICKFS. If we developed that irrigation district it would use a great deal, and if we develop the mineral lands, they would use a great deal. Here is something that should always be borne in mind: We talk about developing a great amount of electricity in what appears to be a remote region. The General Electric Co. and other electric companies are developing means of carrying high voltage great distances with no appreciable loss, and I think that even we in this room, the oldest of us, will live to see the day when we can generate power on the Columbia River and transport it hundreds and perhaps even thousands of miles without appreciable loss. I am not a statistician, but I heard figures yesterday showing that the use of electric power in this country doubles every 7 years, that is, the consumption of it. In certain areas it doubles now every 5 years I do not think we need to be afraid tht we can ever develop electric power in this country that will not have a market. Mr. FITZPATRICK. That is what I wanted to bring out, because we are often asked that question. The CHAILMAN. They figure now on power being transported a thousand miles, practically. So, it is not a local matter any more. Secretary IKES NO Mr. LEAVY. That is a long-range project that runs over a quarter of a century, practically, before completion? Secretary ICKES. I do not know. I always like to do things faster than that myself, and it is necessary to do it as quickly as possible. There is considerable loss on the money invested if you are dilatory about finishing a thing. None of us would build a building that way. We would not put in the foundation and then wait for years without constructing the superstructure CENTRAL VALLEY PROJECT Mr. LEAVY. You are familiar with the Central Valley project in California" Secretary IKES. In a way. They are both P. W. A. projects. LEAVY. But on Grand Coulee you are limited again, and can zer spend P. W. A. money by reason of the limitation of Con tary ICKES. That is right. LEAVY. And that may be true of Central Valley. I am not ar with the regulations. tray ICKES. That is true of Central Valley. LEAVY. Central Valley is a project that meets with your apbation and approval, and you recommend it to the committee? ray ICKES. Oh, yes; absolutely. CHAIRMAN. The main obstacle, Mr. Secretary, in carrying out worthwhile measures is the vast quantity of money that it retary ICKES. Yes, sir; that is it. The CHAIRMAN. And we cannot carry them all at once? retary ICKES. That is true. The CHAIRMAN. Each one has more or less to take its turn? cretary ICKES. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. At the present time there are some States getting uratively nothing? retary ICKES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, it is a question of cutting our gart- according to our cloth somewhat? retary ICKES. No; we cannot do them all at once; that is true. CHAIRMAN. And we do have to give respectful consideration to timates of the National Resources Committee and the Budget e President himself, and the authorities that be, to systematize normous amount of work that we have laid, and which is in IMERGENCY ACTIVITIES AND NEW ACTIVITIES ESTABLISHED IN THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT Mr. RICH. I was interested, Secretary Ickes, when I wrote you on rary 25, in reference to the various organizations that have come your Department, and those activities that have gone out of • Department, because I recall very definitely a year or so ago a atement that you made before the Public Lands Committee on vation, and I am, in a measure, sympathetic with many of In order to be brief I would like to insert in the record the emeractivities that were established in the Department as given to reply to this letter, if that is satisfactory to you. Netary ICKES. That is quite all right. ་ Vr RICH. And also the new activities that were established in ir terior Department, and the list of activities that were transd to the Interior Department. retary ICKES. Yes. T: CHAIRMAN. We usually put that in the record of the hearings. the last time we had 18 new activities. (The letters and the lists of activities referred to are as follows:) FEBRUARY 25, 1937. Hon. HAROLD L. ICKES, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR MR. ICKES: In order to give your Department the benefit of ever possible consideration in connection with requested appropriation, I believe would be very helpful if you would send me a list of agencies and bureaus under your departmental administration which have been created as emergency activi ties. Also, kindly note any new agencies or activities brought under your aciministration since your assumption of the secretaryship. As one of the members of the subcommittee for the consideration of the Interior Department appropriation bill I think this information would be of value to me at this time. Thanking you in advance for same, I am, Very respectfully, ROBERT F. RICH. INTERIOR DEPARTMENT, Hon. ROBERT F. RICH, House of Representatives. MY DEAR MR. RICH In response to your request of February 25, I am gla‹i to send you herewith a list of new activities brought under my supervision since assuming the office of Secretary of the Interior, and a list of the emergency activities established in this Department. Sincerely yours, HAROLD L. ICKES, EMERGENCY ACTIVITIES ESTABLISHED IN THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT 1. Puerto Rico Reconstruction Administration. 2. Recreational demonstration projects in national parks. 3. Work camps in national parks. 4. Emergency conservation work in national parks, on Indian reservations, grazing areas, reclamation projects, territories, and island possessions, etc. Secretary ICKES. The activities listed as 2, 3, and 4 are under the direction of regular agencies of the Department, but they operate as separate units thereunder. This list, of course, does not include emergency projects of the various bureaus and offices of the Department for which separate administrative units have not been established. NEW ACTIVITIES ESTABLISHED IN THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT 1. Division of Grazing, Office of the Secretary. 2. Division of Motion Pictures, Office of the Secretary. 3. Petroleum Conservation Division, Office of the Secretary. 4. Board of Indian Arts and Crafts. 5. National Bituminous Coal Commission. 6. Consumers' Counsel, of the National Bituminous Coal Commission. ACTIVITIES TRANSFERRED TO THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT To the Office of the Secretary 1. United States Geographic Board. 2. Administration of Puerto Rico. 3. Bureau of Mines. Separate Bureau To the National Park Service Oce of Public Buildings and Public Parks. 1- gton Memorial Bridge Commission. P.ble Buildings Commission. 7 Agriculture Department Buildings (6 buildings). National Monuments, Agriculture (16 monuments). National Military Parks, Battlefields, and Cemeteries (33 areas). National Memorial Commission. Rock Creek and Potomac Parkway Commission. To the Office of Education :: Federal Board for Vocational Education. For administration of expenditures Commission of Fine Arts. • George Rogers Clark Sesquicentennial Commission. 21 Mount Rushmore National Memorial Commission. In addition to the above, two new divisions, the Division of Investi ons and the Division of Territories and Island Possessions, were abi-bed in the Office of the Secretary by the consolidation of tivities already under the jurisdiction of the Department. CONSOLIDATION OF GRAZING LAND AREAS Vr RICH. In the discussion a year ago in reference to grazing the Taylor Act, the President, the Secretary of Agriculture, a the Secretary of the Interior had the power to consolidate the ing lands of this country, but for some reason or other they did act. I feel confident that I am quoting the Secretary of the Innor correctly when I say he was anxious that the grazing lands this country be consolidated for the purpose of getting economy operation and economy in handling grazing. Those three men no r have that power, and it is up to Congress, as I understand it , if it is going to be consolidated, to do so. With the establishment at the present time in the Department of Interior of the grazing activities, I can see where it is going to Post a lot of money if that Department is set up in the Department of Interior. How can we, in some manner, have the grazing activiof the Department of Agriculture and those that are now being up in the Interior Department put under one head for the purof efficiency and economy? retary ICKES. If the President's Executive reorganization ideas. adopted by Congress, he would have the power to do that. Mr. RICH. That takes us to the point where we have an investiga°. ♬ of Government activities in the Senate. We have a committee consolidation. We had a committee in the House, and the Presiert has established a committee. cretary ICKES. There is a joint committee that is considering the - now, as I understand it. Mr. RICH. I did not so understand. Mr. LEAVY. That is right; a joint committee of the House and the Senate. Secretary ICKES. Yes, a joint committee of the House and Senate. Mr. RICH. Mr. Secretary, if there is a joint committee I am glad to know it. Secretary ICKES. Yes; there is. Mr. RICH. Is it possible to get that joint committee to take any action at this session of Congress? Secretary ICKES. Well, I think the administration has hopes that it will. That was one of the first messages that the President sent up, asking for these powers. Mr. RICH. I have been in Congress for 6 years, and it has been discussed every year, and we have never gotten any place with it. I know that you are a driver when you start to do something, and I was hoping you would get to the point where you could help drive this thing through. Secretary ICKES. You and I have never disagreed as to the policy that should be adopted on the grazing situation, Congressman. It is not within my power. Mr. RICH. What I want to try to do is to drive it home to the Members of Congress and my associates on this subcommittee that we might be of some service in trying to consolidate these grazing interests. Secretary ICKES. I think to raise the question now apart from the consolidation act that the President is advocating might not be advantageous, and it raises a side issue which might help to defeat the general act. Mr. RICH. You are hopeful, then, that we are going to get some place on this consolidation, are you? Secretary ICKES. I am quite hopeful. REDUCTION OF DEPARTMENTAL EXPENSES AND INCREASE OF RECEIPTS Mr. RICH. Now, Mr. Secretary, you have seen the increasing budget of the Federal Government in your Department, as well as in other departments. Looking at the thing as a whole, you have noticed the Treasury statements, and how fast our funds are being depleted, and how we are going into the red. What have you done in the Department of the Interior in the past year to try to cut down the expenses of your Department, and to increase your revenues in some manner in order that your Department may, if possible, come nearer to balancing the amount of outgo with the income that you expect to receive from it? Secretary ICKES. It has taken not a little of my energy to fight off Members of Congress who want moratoria on our revenues. Mr. RICH. Have you been able to hold them back? Secretary ICKFS. I have been quite a stumbling block. I have tried to be. Very frankly I have said to more than one Member of Congress, and that applies to both Houses, that I have not been able to see the justification for asking us to grant moratoria as to certain reclamation districts, for instance, when the reclamation districts have been as prosperous as they have been during the last few years, I think we frankly have to face that situation sooner or later. So far |