means that instead of being a regular weekly winter activity, skiing is curtailed by the lack of snow locally. If a small portion of the wilderness area in San Gorgonio could be developed for skiing with adequate safeguards to insure preserving the beauty of the area, I am sure that thousands of families like ours would be grateful.

I have heard it said that the area is now available for those who wish to climb for its use. This is very true and I have enjoyed ski touring in San Gorgonio for many years. However, I know the dangers involved in making such climbs in the winter and I certainly would not endanger my children by forcing them to make the hazardous trips by foot, miles away from any help, in case it should be needed. I have helped carry injured people out of the skiing area in San Gorgonio; believe me, it is most torturous for the injured and a backbreaking task for those doing the rescue work. This is skiing? Not for my family. There are only a few weeks in the late spring when skiing is possible for the family groups in this area as it exists now. As one who has enjoyed ski mountaineering in this beautiful area, I am willing to offer a small part of it to the youth of southern California who will use it for training for ski competitions or just for enjoying this wonderful gift I am sure the Lord intended to be used by all.

I have heard arguments that developing the area would stop its use as a summer camp for the many youth groups who have campsites around San Gorgonio. As a matter of fact, my daughter was told, while attending a Campfire Girls' camp there this last summer that they would have to hike to Slushy Meadows to sign the register this year or the skiers would take this all away from them. Are the opponents of opening San Gorgonio for limited skiing facilities so desperate that they have actually given the leaders of these camps false information to pass on to the children? Have they told any of them how wonderful it would be for them to enjoy these camps in the winter, too? Let's not keep the door to San Gorgonio closed all winter but open it for the enjoyment of the most. This is public land and can best serve as a winter recreation area for the families of southern California.

Now I would just like to mention a few words from a coach's point of view. For many years I have had the privilege of serving as a coach in the training program of the junior skiers of southern California. This program is now a part of a vast development program backed by the U.S. Ski Association for the development of ski competitors to increase the field and the quality of racers to be considered for the final selection of the Olympic and world championship teams to represent the United States in international competition. Due to the lack of snow in this area we have had to chase better snow conditions that are needed for safe workouts. This has slowed up the development of some of the finest atheletic material (southern California youth) to be found on any part of the globe. It is a well-known fact that the biggest portion of the swimmers and track and field competitors on the U.S. Olympic team come from this portion of the United States. With this wonderful talent to draw from, is it not reasonable to believe that we could also supply the U.S. ski team with some of its finest performers, if we had a place with the consistent snow conditions and alpine terrain for training that San Gorgonio could provide only a few miles from millions of potential athletes?

As we all know, President Eisenhower started the youth fitness program that is being carried on by the present administration. Are we going to help this program by curtailing the use of one of the finest training grounds for our youth to be found anywhere? Remember physical fitness is best developed by getting out on the mountains and using them not by only admiring the majestic view from the distance. I'm sure that some of the opponents would have to agree that this cause alone justifies our sharing the benefits of San Gorgonio.

Let us reason together, then let us put this area to the best use for the benefit of all.

Thank you very much.

Mr. BARING. Thank you very much.

Now, Mr. John Hamilton.

STATEMENT OF JOHN HAMILTON, INDIVIDUAL SKIER

Mr. HAMILTON. Gentlemen, I represent a skier area in central California but I am speaking as an individual now who is a second generation Californian, a 30-year veteran of the Boy Scouts of America; and 20 years in physical education and recreation as a professional.

I would like to see this area opened up to the youth of southern California.

In line with what Bill has said about the national fitness program endorsed by Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy, skiing is one sport that girls and women excel in as well as boys and men.

We have an area here which is prohibitive in cost to most skiers of southern California who travel into the central area of California and above, for the day use in a 6-month-long season, for the youth of southern California.

We can, in turn, train many athletes both men and women, and insure the joys of recreational pursuits in winter sports for the families of southern California.

Thank you very much.

Mr. BARING. Thank you, sir.

Now, our next scheduled speaker is Sylvester Morning.

Mr. ROTH. He is not here, sir.

Mr. BARING. All right, we will then have the testimony of Henry Nash at this time.

STATEMENT OF HENRY NASH, SKI INSTRUCTOR AND MEMBER OF SIERRA CLUB

Mr. NASH. Chairman Baring and committee members, I represent myself.

I am proud to be both a member of Sierra Club and an ardent skier in favor of providing ski area development on the upper elevations of San Gorgonio.

I've hiked and skied this area since I was a boy and not only have attachments as those of an old friend, but also with a desire to make it possible for more youngsters to find the same kind of joy I have experienced. I've been camping in San Gorgonio as a Boy Scout and believe that a ski area will make it possible for more Scouts to use the area in both winter and summer.

Another almost forgotten experience was as a member of a UCLA ski team following World War II. I suspect that the lack of snow consistent in other areas during the winter months discouraged enough potential ski team members so that a team has been in existence for years. I would hope that local colleges would field ski teams and think that San Gorgonio would offer the best possibility for training.

As a ski instructor and skier and father of two children, I also believe that the addition of San Gorgonio to a winter sports area will provide thousands of other young families the opportunity of skiing together in the winter and hiking together in the summer.

Thank you.

Mr. BARING. Thank you, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. I would like to ask just one or two questions.

Do you think this could be developed without placement of roads within the wilderness area?

You have heard the testimony this morning of Mr. Alex Deutsch and he stated that much of the road construction and parking areas would be outside of the wilderness area.

Mr. NASH. I believe it could be done with some effort put in from all sides with the proper supervision and proper guidance of the Forest Service.

Mr. JOHNSON. Do you think then that the area could be made accessible to more skiers by the placement of lifts from outside of the wilderness area into the wilderness area?

Mr. NASH. Absolutely.

Mr. JOHNSON. Without the construction of roads and parking areas within the wilderness area?

Mr. NASH. Well, there will be some roads required to make it possible for some accessibility.

We are only talking about short runs and exactly where these boundaries are, I'm not too familiar.

But, I feel this is more or less irrelevant because there are some very sound plans that would not actually hurt the area or its scenic beauty. Mr. JOHNSON. Seemingly, skiers do not mind walking a certain amount of distance.

Mr. NASH. Well, within certain limits.

If you are packing skis and you have families to contend with, I believe that a certain distance is limited.

Mr. JOHNSON. Well, I have visited many ski areas and I have visited three Olympic ski areas, where they were held; one in Italy, one in Austria, and our own here in the United States, and there were people walking all over the place.

There was just no other means of transportation.

I noticed that the people who were dressed for the winter games had no problem walking a sizable distance while they were carrying these skis and equipment.

Mr. NASH. Well, all skiers who believe in skiing also believe in walking. But, there are limits on what is normally agreed to be possible.

I believe it is quite a hike at the present time to get into this area. Mr. JOHNSON. I realize it is quite a hike at the present time but, under the plans as discussed this morning, where we had four areas suitable for development, most of the access to these areas other than

www

to the prime area in the middle of the Dry Lake area, from there on up to the top, they were not accessible from the outside without something in the way of road construction and parking within the wilder

ness area.

Now, this could be worked out with proper wisdom. I have seen lifts being built all over my mountains up there and they are tying ski developments together, one to the other, and it is a good distance between the two.

This is the type of skiing that is carried on in Europe, where they have ski tours developed from one area to another.

They use lifts and there are no roads in there. The area is using a lift, when you are not on the lift, you are on the skis all of the time. I presume this could be developed in the same manner by placing lifts inside the wilderness area and nothing else.

Mr. NASH. I believe so, sir.

Mr. BARING. All right, the next speaker will be Mr. Fred Dixon.

STATEMENT OF FRED DIXON, DEPUTY PROBATION OFFICER, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIF.

Mr. DIXON. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is Fred Dixon and I reside at 6200 Riverton Avenue, North Hollywood, Calif.

I am concerned about crime and juvenile delinquency because of my profession. I have been employed for over 25 years as a deputy probation officer for Los Angeles County. I supervise an adult case load which includes men 18 years of age and older. I am convinced that the vast majority of crime committed are not planned or "master minded" as is often portrayed on film. Time will not permit a long discussion of causes of crime. However, I believe that circumstances or situations existant at the time a crime is committed, i.e., available liquor, idleness, search for excitement, or something new, etc. are predominant factors.

Idleness and the search for excitement are the things I am now most concerned about. People must be kept busy or "have a party" so to speak. This often involved drinking and many times results in committed crime.

Hence there is an urgent need for more recreational facilities. Leisure time must be directed into wholesome recreational outlets. As people experience more and more leisure time, the problem increases. Therefore, I feel that San Gorgonio should be opened to the winter recreationist. Surely your are aware of the tens of thousands of outdoor oriented people in southern California that ski. Because of the constantly growing interest in skiing, on those rare days when there is local snow, the existing southern California ski areas are overcrowded. Many times I have spent three-fourths of an hour waiting in a lift line at Snow Summit. We must have more local ski areas.

I have a son that just turned 16 and he loves to ski. He now has a license to drive and he talks of driving to Mammoth to ski. Gentlemen, this is a necessary experience if you crave skiing because there is seldom snow available in the Southland. I dread the thought of his making that long drive on a weekend and driving home tired after skiing all day. Of course, I can prohibit him from going. However,

I would rather see him skiing than spending his weekends hanging around the drive-ins and other places where teenagers hang out, trying to think of something exciting to do.

With San Gorgonio opened, he could ski there on Saturdays. He would go to bed early Friday night because he would plan on getting up early Saturday morning to make the comparatively short trip to San Gorgonio for a day of skiing.

There has been mention of areas 4 hours away; 4 hours up and 4 hours back. This does not help very much, with a total of 8 hours. Also, I say let's develop the other four areas available also.

San Gorgonio is a day use area so vital to southern California-not another up-north overnight area which the Forest Service seems to be providing almost exclusively for the people upstate while we are told to accept the less than adequate "artificial snow." This inequity must be acted upon by you gentlemen.

May I in closing repeat, there is an express need for more recreational facilities of the type San Gorgonio could afford, to enable people to get the thrill and excitement they require and not resort to crime. I trust that your committee will see fit to open San Gorgonio for much needed family winter recreation.

Thank you.

Mr. BARING. Thank you, sir.

Now, we will have a statement from Mr. Louis Zamperini.

STATEMENT OF LOUIS ZAMPERINI, DIRECTOR OF VICTORY BOYS CAMPS, INC.

Mr. ZAMPERINI. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name is Louis Zamperini, a resident of 2338 Hollyridge Drive, Hollywood, Calif. I am the director of a camping program which yearly ministers to over 1,200 boys, most of whom have gotten into severe troubles committing major crimes. I would like to submit for the record a reprint of an article written by me for Decision magazine, August 1963 issue, entitled "The Thrill Gap," which details some of the exciting facets of our program.

At home, at school, and at camp, boys and girls must not only be kept busy, they must be challenged. Every person has what I call "the thrill gap.' gap." There is a need for excitement and thrilling experience as an outlet in everyone's life. This need varies in direct proportion to the individual person.

Unfortunately, due to a lack of proper programing, supervision, and neglect, in general, many of our teenagers today try to fill this thrill gap through robbery, fighting, vandalism, narcotics, alcoholism, etc.

In our camp programs we offer the older problem boys a real challenge and we have yet to find the boy that hasn't said "That was the greatest thrill of my life" when they found themselves rappelling over a cliff in our mountaineering program or schussing a snowy slope in our ski class or glissading the fall line of a glacier. Rappelling and glissading offers a measure of thrill, but this thrill is limited by the limited times of performance, whereas skiing offers a constant source of outlet and exhilaration. The thrill gap could be filled and better maintained by accessible skiing such as nearby San Gorgonio would afford.