Well, the hut is gone, but the mountain is not. I am told that the mountain is open to skiers. In my estimation 98 percent of the skiers in southern California have no business being in the San Gorgonio Wild Area during the winter months. The Big Draw, the terminal moraine, and the unpatrolled avalanche area above Christmas Tree Hill are but some of the natural dangers and the provisions of or for survival are almost nil.

It is my opinion that this mountain is not now open to any but the most rugged and "winter wise" of skiers, but with posted runs, lifts, and the ski patrol, it could be one of the most beautiful and skiable areas in the United States.

I am further told that some are objecting to a ski lift on esthetic grounds. If a ski facility were built and highly controlled by the Government, I don't think there would be much there for the summer hikers to see. Were I hiking in the Alps and I came across the cable of a telefernique or a few lift towers, I don't think my esthetic sensibilities would be offended.

I think I would pause and picture myself floating in hazy S turns down a long white slope, then I would glance up at Mount Blanc or the Matterhorn and continue my hike.

Mr. BARING. Now, the testimony of Mr. Driskell will be incorporated at this point.

STATEMENT OF R. E. DRISKELL, SOUTH PASADENA, CALIF.

Mr. DRISKELL. I operate my own manufacturing business, and despite the fact that I have had some success, I talked myself into investing in a ski area in the San Jacinto Mountains near Idylwild. Granted that it is only a one "rope town" operation, but nevertheless a skiable few hundred acres and as prone to losing money as any big area in southern California, where snow is not dependable.

My wife and I have skied in most of the areas in the West, and although that of itself does not qualify us as experts on selecting ski areas, there is one thing we have learned from my business. As a matter of fact, if it is a healthy, growing business, competition is good for the entire business.

I feel strongly in this vein regarding San Gorgonio, and my small area. This feeling is strengthened by the report I read in Sports Illustrated a year or so ago. It related the concern of the small ski areas in Vermont where new major developments made it appear that they would be lost among the giants.

It was gratifying to see that after a few years all areas profited by the additional visitors attracted to the new big areas.

As a skier and as a small businesman, I heartily endorse Mr. Dyal's leadership in advocating winter recreation at San Gorgonio.

Mr. BARING. Now, Mr. Sullivan, you have a statement of your own. Mr. SULLIVAN. First, I have the testimony of Lt. Val M. Petrus, first lieutenant, U.S. Air Force, George Air Force Base, Calif., and he was on the George Air Force Base sports committee, and he was just ordered to go to Vietnam and was not able to appear here in person as he had planned to do.

He asked me to submit his testimony along with a petition of quite a few names of officers and enlisted men at George Air Force Base in

favor of this legislation so that it would be to their benefit. I would like to also introduce this.

Along with that, he said that it was his feeling when he was ordered to go to Vietnam that he probably would not forget about it while he was there and when he comes back in about 3 months, he hopes to have some good news.

Mr. BARING. Without objection, that will be incorporated in the record as if read.

STATEMENT OF V. M. PETRUS, FIRST LIEUTENANT, SPORTS COMMITTEE, GEORGE AIR FORCE BASE, CALIF.

Lieutenant PETRUS. I would like to present to you my personal viewpoint on the matter of opening San Gorgonio to skiing.

Having served as an assistant scoutmaster in the Boy Scouts, I can appreciate the viewpoint of the opposition, however, I feel that with certain safeguards written in there would be essentially no loss to the

area.

The opening of a ski area would be a great boon to the entire southern California area. It should be noted that people interested in utilizing remote areas generally don't just use them for 1-day periods, but take several days. The distance to and from the area is to them not nearly as critical as it would be to the weekend skier. The problem of finances and a place to stay is of little importance to the camper.

At present most of the personnel at George Airbase who like to ski have to go to Mammoth Mountain. This entails a considerable expenditure for travel and lodging to say nothing of the time involved in travel. The lower grade airmen find this beyond their means.

The uncertainty of the snow conditions, the large number of people using the existing slopes in southern California and the relatively poor characteristics make it impossible to have a ski program at present at our Air Force base, and I believe a lot of interest might be generated and would provide an excellent diversion for not only George Air Force Base, but also for Norton and Marsh which are even closer to the San Gorgonio area.

While I am speaking strictly in an unofficial capacity, I can assure you that there is a great deal of personal interest among most of our personnel, and they have asked me to make our desire for the area known to you. I have gathered a list of names of the attached petition of a few officers and enlisted men stationed at George Air Force Base, who are in favor of this legislation. I would like to include these in my testimony.

To protect the area, we feel it should be closed off in the summer and no concessions allowed other than the lifts and warming hut and for refreshments.

We would like to see a toboggan course laid out with lift facilities, but this isn't of as much importance as the skiing.

I hope my comments may be of some help to you in deciding to open the area of San Gorgonio.

Mr. BARING. The petition which is attached to the testimony of the lieutenant will become a part of the file, without objection.

Now, you may present your own statement, Mr. Sullivan.

STATEMENT OF D. H. SULLIVAN, SALES MANAGER, RADIO STATION KAVR, APPLE VALLEY, CALIF.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I wish to go on record as being in favor of the passage of H.R. 6891. Below I have listed my qualifications and background as well as my reasons for wanting this bill to be passed.

My background includes employment with the U.S. Forest Service for 2 years in the Gila Wilderness Area in New Mexico. My duties consisted of firefighting, patrol, and maintenance of the area surrounding the Redstone Fire Guard Station, fire watch at Lockout Mountain Tower, and general patrol in campsites and hiking trails.

My experience in working with youth groups is also extensive. I have coached the diving team for the Victor Valley United High School in Victorville; I am post adviser for Post 960 in Apple Valley, Calif., one of the first Radio Explorer Posts of its kind; I have served as public relations and publicity chairman of the Boy Scouts of America, Sorrano District. At the present I am a member of the Victorville Kiwanis Club and serve on the "sports" and "boys" and "girls" committees. I was a member of the U.S. 6th Army Diving and Swimming Team.

Mr. business background includes the following: Sales manager of Radio Station KAVR in Apple Valley, membership in the Victorville and Apple Valey Chambers of Commerce, and former chairman of the Victorville Business Boosters. I was also selected as one of the "Leading Young Men in the United States" for 1964.

My background in the Forest Service and with youth groups along with my involvement in sporting activities has caused me to be greatly concerned with the issue at hand. If I felt there wasn't an acute need for an additional winter recreational area of the quality available in San Gorgonio, or if I felt harm would be done to the San Gorgonio Wilderness Area, I would not be in favor of H.R. 6891.

The need for an area of the type offered at San Gorgonio cannot be disputed. At the present the existing areas are undependable because of their lower elevations. My own personal experience has included waits of up to 1 hour on weekends when favorable conditions did exist. When conditions in the local areas were bad my only alternative for skiing was a 300-mile, 6-hour drive to Mammoth Mountain, Calif. Needless to say, this was expensive, time consuming, and because of the driving involved, somewhat dangerous. On this matter I can only reflect that there are thousands of southland citizens not as fortunate as I and, therefore, participation for them in this sport was limited because of inadequate conditions locally.

While referring to the national forests and skiing, the Forest Service and the Department of Agriculture Pamphlet PA-525 admits "their numbers are increasing and more ski resorts are needed." It also mentions that along with picnicking, hiking, camping, swimming, and sightseeing:

Recreational skiing fits naturally into the multiple-use picture. *** Wild animals find grasses and other vegetation on ski slopes and trails after the winter snows have gone. And the ski lifts climbing toward mountain tops, splendid panoramic views, and high mountain trails offer outdoor recreation as attractive to the summer visitor as to the winter vacationist * * *.”

The passage of H.R. 6891 would enable young people all over southern California as well as many adults now unable to participate in winter sports, using the slopes of San Gorgonio, and enjoying this potentially wonderful winter recreation area.

My experience and knowledge of the area convinces me of the tremendous possibilities it has as a training site for skiers wishing to compete in international and Olympic competition. Having been in the area many times, I have seen the excellent snow conditions there. I have also noted that the area in question receives very little use in the summer and practically none in the winter, while the potential enjoyment for so many is so great.

I sincerely believe that the area must be opened and that no harm would come to its present use. I have seen areas used by people and used well. Use of the land doesn't mean abuse, contamination, or pollution, when it is properly controlled.

In the past months I have spoken to many groups, organizations, and individuals. I have found almost universal agreement with the feeling I am expressing in this testimony. Many people have given me additional reasons to believe in the position I hold. Among the numerous groups I have personally come in contact with who have come out in favor of H.R. 6891, include: Apple Valley Chamber of Commerce, Hesperia Chamber of Commerce, Lucerne Valley Chamber of Commerce, Victorville Chamber of Commerce, Victor Valley Junior Chamber of Commerce, and Hi-Desert Tourist & Recreation Council. I envisage a tremendous winter recreation area patterned to incorporate the wilderness area concept into the entire development. The buildings in a wilderness decor, the facilities to blend with the terrain, in fact, the name could possibly be the San Gorgonio Wilderness Recreation Area.

Rather than just being a large area used by a few, a small portion of this same area could be used by many. Its opening could mean the greatest good for the greatest number of persons.

I would add something at this point. The development of a ski area on Mount San Gorgonio could be a tremendous asset to the U.S. winter Olympic hopes. This is the opinion of U.S. Ski Team Head Coach Bob Beottie, who spent several hours on Tuesday, November 9, 1965, touring the proposed 3,500-acre site.

Olympic coach since 1961, 32-year-old Beottie was ski coach at the University of Colorado from 1956 until he quit this year to devote full time to developing the Olympic program. He said:

I don't think I've ever seen an area that looks more like it was made for winter sports.

If this were to be permitted on San Gorgonio, the possibilities for developing athletes of Winter Olympics caliber among the millions of Southern California youth would be fantastic.

Just look at what Santa Clara Youth Village has done for swimming.

Beottie, also head coach of the U.S. Ski Association alpine program made these remarks to me and also at a press conference following his tour of San Gorgonio.

Accompanying him on his tour of the wilderness area were residents of San Bernardino and Riverside Counties including John Blatt of Indio, 1948 U.S. Olympic ski team member; Chandler North, research horticulturist from the University of California at River

side; D. H. Sullivan of Apple Valley, an officer in the San Bernardino County Citizens for San Gorgonio, and O. H. Allred, former U.S. Forest Service ranger for the wild area.

Opponents have charged that the 3,500 acres being opened to commercial skiing would take the heart out of the 34,718-acre wilderness area. Beottie said:

A lot of people seem to be afraid that as soon as an area is opened, hot dog stands will move in bringing along a carnival atmosphere.

I think all they have to do is see Sun Valley (Idaho), Aspen (Colorado) and several of the ski areas close to Denver to know that this is wrong. At Sun Valley there is only one eating place at the top of the runs and no buildings on the slopes.

On Mount San Gorgonio, very few trees would have to be cut because most of the area is above the timberline. "It would not be the 'heart' of the area to me. There are many more beautiful spots throughout the section." When asked about the wildlife he saw there, Beottie replied, "I didn't even see a squirrel, but someone did see two." Beottie pointed out that skiers have no disagreement with the people who want to preserve the natural beauty of such areas:

Everybody interested in skiing is also interested in preserving the Wilderness Area. Ski developers want to keep the beauty. Chair lift poles are painted green to blend in with the trees, and at many places the chairs are removed in the summer, leaving only cables showing. I saw more signs going up there than I've ever seen at Squaw Valley, Aspen or Sun Valley.

Beottie said that one of the reasons that the United States has made a relatively poor showing in winter sports in the past is that major ski areas are located in areas with small population.

An area like this would offer easy accessibility to thousands. Skiing is something that must be practiced regularly and the youth in Southern California now must travel to Central or Northern California to find dependable

snow.

We now have outstanding prospects in the Los Angeles are with no opportunity to practice.

Beottie feels that the San Gorgonio has great potential and compares favorably with Squaw Valley, where the 1960 winter Olympics were held. This is because of the altitude. The base of the Squaw Valley runs are about 6,000 feet. The reports I have of snow depths compare very favorably with the best areas across the country.

Allred, ranger in the wild area for 2 years, said that there is excellent skiing there varying from 100 to 190 days each year. Beottie said:

There is a very strong likelihood that we would bring the Olympic team to San Gorgonio for training * * It would play an important part in our Olympic team development.

I have no quarrel with the people who want to keep the Wilderness Area. It's just a matter of getting together on development. Not all of the 3,500 acres would go to skiing. Much of it would act as a buffer area to protect the Wild Area. As I see it, this is a very, very vast area and a lot of people are using it now. But by opening a small portion, many times more people would

be able to take advantage of it.

Thank you.

Mr. BARING. Are there any questions?

Apparently there are none.

I want to thank the last speakers, as I do all the speakers.