real-estate agents, and there is no real reason why an estate should not pay something toward that cost. Mr. JOHNSON. I agree that well-to-do Indians with large incomes. certainly should be required to pay the actual cost for hospital treatment. Can you now state about what the average fee would amount to? Mr. COLLIER. No, sir; we cannot say as to that until we have the authority and have experimented with it for a year. Mr. JOHNSON. Cannot you advise the committee what the average per day cost per bed is at this time? Mr. COLLIER. We know that our hospital cost runs around $2 per day per bed. Mr. JOHNSON. Do you propose to charge that much or more? Mr. COLLIER. We might charge that much, or less, or nothing, according to the facts of the particular case. Mr. JOHNSON. You would take into consideration, I assume, the question of the financial ability of the Indian to pay. Mr. COLLIER. Yes, sir. Mr. JOHNSON. But if the Indian were unable to pay Mr. COLLIER (interposing). We would not impose fees to the extent of depriving an Indian of the opportunity of entering a hospital, but we think that in many instances we could bring in some compensating revenue. NEED OF ADDITIONAL CLERICAL AND STENOGRAPHIC HELP IN DEPARTMENTAL AND FIELD SERVICES Mr. JOHNSON. Is there anything further, Mr. Commissioner? Mr. COLLIER. There is one other thing I want to mention, and it is an unpopular thing both with the Budget and with Congress, apparently. We have experienced in the last 4 years a tremendous increase in the volume of work, both at headquarters and in the field. If you measure it by the paper work, there has been an increase of 300 percent in the Washington office in the incoming and outgoing mail. That, of course, is no adequate measure of the increase of work. The increases are due to policies laid down by Congress. Under one of them, we are trying to carry on work in the Indian Service in cooperation with a lot of other services, Federal and State, and that involves more contacts, more negotiations, more paper work. That cooperation extends to the W. P. A., Social Security, the Soil Conservation Service, the Bureau of Animal Industry, the Farm Security Administration, and several others, and our effort toward Indian organization, toward Indian economic self-keep, means in these years of readjustment much new and much more work. And this work requires clerks and stenographers, and we are terribly short of them. Mr. JOHNSON. Did you sell the Budget on that idea this year? Mr. JOHNSON (interposing). Of course, if you do not wish to answer the question I shall not press it. Mr. COLLIER. We did not sell them on it much; no, sir. We are in a period of readjustment of far-reaching effect, a period of vastly increased work burdens on the employed personnel, and we are going through that period with no substantial increase in the clerical personnel. Secretary Ickes called me the other day and told me about a certain case that had been referred to us, and the unfinished correspondence was 6 months old. I said to him, "Mr. Secretary, I know that has happened, but we have an increase of more than 300 percent in the volume of our mail, and we have had no clerical increase, or practically none, and what do you expect us to do?" He said, "Make an increased effort to get those clerical forces." Mr. RICH. He has been used to having lots of money for doing things in a hurry, but now it is not being handed to him on a silver platter, and he must use some judgment, Mr. COLLIER. If any of you gentlemen will conduct a personal investigation of our situation, you will find that we are sagging in our work because of the lack of adequate clerical assistance. We do not have an adequate clerical force to perform our duties properly, under the law, in the stenographic and clerical staff. We need more clerical personnel here and more in the agencies. Mr. O'NEAL. How much behind are you? Mr. COLLIER. That will vary. This particular case referred to by the Secretary was 6 months old. There were also some extenuating circumstances in that case, but we are weeks, even months behind on many cases. Then, we are called upon to make reports on bills referred to us by committees. Many hundreds of those bills come to us every year, calling for reports. Now, back of the preparation of those reports, lies the consultation of records. The lag in that work amounts to about 3 months, does it not, Mr. Dodd? Mr. DODD. In some cases, yes, sir. Mr. COLLIER. That is very bad business. We do not like to have that lag, but we cannot make those reports on bills promptly for the lack of an adequate clerical force. The same thing is true in the field. We feel very strongly that economizing too much in the clerical force is not good economy, because it serves to disrupt and delay the business of the Office. Mr. JOHNSON. Does the Budget allow anything for additional clerical help? Mr. DODD. They allowed $14,460 out of a requested increase of $54.380. Mr. JOHNSON. That is a pretty good showing. You evidently fared exceptionally well with the Budget Bureau. Mr. DODD. Supplementing what Mr. Collier has said about the overdue condition of the mail, a recent study was made, and, as of October 31, 1937, there was 2,229 pieces of pending and overdue mail in the divisions, with 687 additional pieces not disposed of but with the various reviewing officers, making a total of almost 3,000 pieces of pending and overdue mail. There were 791 cases definitely in an overdue status, taking 15 days as the outside limit for getting the mail moving from the clerk's desks. Mr. O'NEAL. Is that due to an insufficient clerical force? Mr. DODD. It is due to an insufficient clerical force and of stenographic help. Mr. CARTER. Do you keep a record of overtime work? Mr. DODD. We kept a record a year ago for a period of 6 months, both in the office and in the field. That record was transmitted to the Civil Service Commission. I think that was done in pursuance of legislation that was enacted by Congress, to make a record of the amount of overtime put in. Mr. SCRUGHAM. Do they get compensation or time off later on account of overtime work? Mr. DODD. No, sir. Mr. SCRUGHAM. There is no systematic allowance made for that? Mr. DODD. No, sir. DISTRIBUTION OF EXPENDITURES FOR INDIAN SERVICE BY STATES, FISCAL YEAR 1937 Mr. JOHNSON. Do you have anything further to submit, Mr. Dodd? Mr. DODD. I have a few general remarks to make concerning the estimates which you have before you. Mr. JOHNSON. We will be glad to have them. Mr. DODD. I might say at the outset that in cooperation with the clerk of the committee we have endeavored to reduce some of the printing by eliminating unnecessary matter from the justifications, and we have attempted this year to reduce further the matter that is to be printed in the record. Mr. JOHNSON. That is very commendable. Mr. DODD. I have here a statement, by agencies, of the expenditures on account of the Indian Service for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1937. This statement has been submitted year after year. It relates only to the regular appropriations, and does not cover any emergency expenditures. Mr. JOHNSON. That statement may be inserted in the record at this point. (The statement is as follows:) |