Chairman PERKINS. You can tell Mr. Mills that he was well represented and we understand his problems. No one is busier than Wilbur Mills presently. Thank you for your appearance. Mr. Wright? Mr. WRIGHT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can no longer be satisfied funding programs just because they "help poor people." They must be efficiently run, effective and, if possible, have a degree of public acceptance. Where they are popular, they must be even more efficient and effective in helping people. The war on poverty simply cannot afford to be run as inefficiently as the Defense Department or, for that matter, many other departments of Government. Toward these ends, here are the recommendations of the Farmers Union: 1. We urge that the antipoverty program not become a political football. We hope this committee will work quickly to develop a bipartisan bill rather than subjecting this program to another head-on battle on the floor of Congress. 2. We urge Congress to pass an enlarged adult work program based upon the solid successes that these programs have had in helping people help themselves and upon the widespread public support they enjoy 78 percent according to national polls. I might add at this time that the National Farmers Union is almost ready to put into action another adult work training program similar to our Green Thumb program. We are hoping to employ some of our senior rural ladies, because I think this is true all over the country, not only in rural America, but we are primarily concerned with this, that we find that the ladies outlive the men for some reason or other. We find that we have a lot of widowed women in our areas who have no means of employment. We are trying to devise a program in which we can use their talents and their skills to help better their community. We urge that Congress take additional steps to insure that poor people living in rural areas receive equitable treatment. We urge that Congress put top priority on improving the administration of the OEO and the delegated programs. We urge review panels for reviewing programs grant proposals and contracts similar to those used by the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. We urge an internal appeals system. Community action agencies, local governments and the poor, State governmental units or others should have some system of appeals other than running to their Congressmen if they don't like the decision made by the regional OEO staff. We urge the Congress direct the agency to encourage many existing projects and programs to assist in ending hunger. We urge that Congress establish guidelines or procedures to determine when and how programs should be delegated to other agencies. Congress should evaluate its general directive to consolidate all manpower programs into an area under one agency and, instead, focus upon the real consideration-the coordination of such programs. We would also urge the Congress direct OEO to alter its guidelines of poverty to reflect the true changes in the cost of living caused by inflation. A poor family with $3,000 is a lot poorer than it was 2 years ago when the guidelines do not reflect these changes. We would also want to urge Congress to end the double standard for the poor who live on farms and the poor who live in the cities. The Department of Agriculture, the rural staff of OEO, every director who has dealt with the problem, the national organizations involved and the various State agencies all agree that the differentiation in the poverty guideline between farm and nonfarm simply is not fair. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my prepared statement in this testimony. If you have any questions, I will try to answer them. Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Clay? Mr. CLAY. I don't have any questions at this time, Mr. Chairman. But I do want to commend the people who came here this morning in support of the Green Thumb program. I think it is a very worthwhile program. Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Landgrebe? Mr. LANDGREBE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank these gentlemen for the entertainment. My dad bought me several pairs of shoes with his violin playing country music back in the hills of Indiana. They are beautiful, too. So I thank you gentlemen for your information and your testimony and I assure you I will give you my consideration. Mr. WILLIE MORRISON. If it is not out of order at this time, I would, Mr. Chairman, like to also present you gentlemen with a hat to show our appreciation, to make you honorary members of the Green Thumb, and I would also like to give you gentlemen one of our albums. Chairman PERKINS. Thank you, gentlemen, very much for your courtesies and appearance here today. You have been helpful to the committee and we appreciate your coming. I feel confident that your Green Thumb operation will continue in the future. It is just a question of whether it be expanded or not. That, of course, depends on the executive and the committee authorization first, and then the budget problems downtown and the Congress in appropriating funds. But I feel confident when the legislation leaves this committee that you will be pretty well taken care of. Thank you for coming. Our next witness is Mr. John Fullbright, Director, Ottowa Job Corps Center, Port Clinton, Ohio. I understand that Mr. Ferguson wants to appear with him, Mr. Arthur J. Ferguson. Come around, gentlemen. Go ahead, Mr. Fullbright. I am delighted to welcome you here this morning. We want to hear something about your center. STATEMENT OF JOHN FULLBRIGHT, DIRECTOR, OTTOWA JOB CORPS CENTER, PORT CLINTON, OHIO, ACCOMPANIED BY ARTHUR J. FERGUSON Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before your committee this morning. will give you a brief résumé on my background because I am sure there are questions that the committee would ask me. Chairman PERKINS. Go ahead and summarize it for us. Tell us about your Ottowa Job Corps Center. Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Thank you. I recently was transferred to the Ottowa center about 7 months ago as the center Director. I have been in Job Corps for approximately 4 years, in the position of counselor, Corpsman supervisor, which takes care of residential living and leisure time activities. I served as Assistant Director and now I am presently in Ohio at the Ottowa center, which has a capacity of 168 men. We stay at approximately 154 men. I have just come to that center. We have done a tremendous amount of work and working with the community and in assisting young men to better assist themselves. I now would like to throw this thing open and let you ask questions, if you would like. Chairman PERKINS. Is your center still in operation? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. My center is still in operation, but we have received official word about the closing. Chairman PERKINS. Did you receive the notice for the first time in the newspapers or just how did you receive that notice that you were going to be closed out? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. My first knowledge of it was via the news media. I was looking at television at the 10 o'clock news. Chairman PERKINS. And heard it over the television? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes, sir; I did. Chairman PERKINS. That was the first notice that you had received that you were going to be closed out? You got that notice over the television? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes. Chairman PERKINS. What is the enrollment at your Job Corps center presently? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Presently it is 95. We have been sending corpsmen to other centers and so forth. Chairman PERKINS. What is the average cost per enrollee there a year? Mr. FULLBRIGHT, The average cost per enrollee is approximately $4,800 per year. Chairman PERKINS. Approximately $4,800 per year? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes, sir. Chairman PERKINS. What does that $4,800 include? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. It includes clothing, his meals, some leisure time activities, his medical costs, his dental costs, and it will take care of the whole person. Chairman PERKINS. You mean the lodging, 24 hours a day, and so forth? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes. Chairman PERKINS. Meals, dental, medical facilities, rehabilitation, and training facilities of all types? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes, sir. Chairman PERKINS. What placement record did your Job Corps center have? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Since coming to the Ottowa Center, we have been working on placement quite a bit. We have a working agreement with the Chrysler Corp. in Detroit, Mich. Since we have been there we have placed approximately 35 corpsmen in that corporation. Of that 35, they have lost three. One of those was because of physical examination. He failed his physical. 27-754-69-pt. 3- -44 Chairman PERKINS. Because of physical examination? In other words, you placed them all except two, excepting the one that you lost because of physical condition? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes. We also have corpsmen that just prior to my coming we placed in Eastman Kodak. We have placed corpsmen in Sandusky, Ohio, which is approximately 15 miles away. Chairman PERKINS. What type of training do you do in the Job Corps center at Ottowa? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. At Ottowa we have principally five occupational areas: welding, auto mechanics, carpentry, culinary arts, and heavy equipment. Chairman PERKINS. How many did you tell me you had enrolled presently? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. We are down to 95. Chairman PERKINS. What is the capacity of the center? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. 168. Chairman PERKINS. Why are you down to 95 presently? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. In keeping with arrangements for closing, we were trying to do what is best for our men and place them and send them to other centers. Chairman PERKINS. What is going to happen to the 95 presently enrolled in your center? Has any effort been made on the part of the Department of Labor to place those youngsters in other centers? If you know, tell us about it. Mr. FULLBRIGHT. The placement of corpsmen in other centers is being handled through the Office of Economic Opportunity. We have already placed 20 men in another center. Those who wished to transfer will probably be placed in centers. Chairman PERKINS. But you don't know how many of them will go home or anything else at this stage of the game? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Upon initial announcement our interview with the corpsmen revealed that of the men that we had onboard were approximately 78 who wanted to terminate and about 50 wanted to transfer. Chairman PERKINS. Of the men you have onboard, 78 of them want to terminate and 15 will transfer to other centers? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Fifty. That was initially when we interviewed each man. Chairman PERKINS. That is when you first got the announcement? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. That's right. Chairman PERKINS. Many of the 78 have already left, is that correct? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes, sir. Chairman PERKINS. Already gone home? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes, sir. Chairman PERKINS. To your personal knowledge, they didn't go to another center? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. By choice they chose to go home. Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Yes. Chairman PERKINS. What kind of psychological impact, if any, did the announcement that the center would no longer remain in operation have on these enrollees when you interviewed them about their choices and what they contemplated doing? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Many of the young men were very perplexed, I guess that is the best way you could say it. Let me make this analogy. About 2 weeks previous to the announcement, and not knowing that it was coming out, we got our corpsmen staff together and we were principally talking about the objectives of what we were trying to accomplish at this particular center and what were the overall objectives of the Job Corps. I told them about the situation one time when we were playing basketball. We lost the game by 1 point. I traveled with this young man who had a family of four. We were so involved in the loss of the game, when we got ready to leave we forgot to take a head count of his children that he brought with him and when we got about 50 miles down the road, we counted and we couldn't get but three. So that meant we had left one child back at the place where we played our game. I made an analogy that in America we have been so involved, we have had so many perplexing things happen to our country and our society, that mostly we forgot some people. I felt my Job Corps was that vehicle going back to pick those people up. I want everyone to know that I am proud to be a part of that vehicle. But I had to make that announcement when I had to call my people together. I guess those young men were asking me what happened to the car? My answer was this: We just had a flat. You get out and fix it. We are going to still ride. So I guess those young men are confused. Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Clay? Mr. CLAY. You have heard of the proposed plans for transferring the enrollees of Job Corps centers into other Job Corps centers for doing the kind of things that Job Corps centers were doing in areas close to home in the big cities, in particular, transferring them into the manpower programs, CEPS programs and JOBS. Is it your belief that the kind of training that was given to the Job Corps enrollee at the residential center can be absorbed by the existing programs in the urban areas? Mr. FULLBRIGHT. Mr. Clay, that would be very difficult to answer, because I don't know exactly what all is involved in the proposed centers. I will say this: That human beings as a whole have a resistance to change. And the young men that we get, when they get off of that bus, whether they are from rural or urban areas, they bring a set of values or a set of attitudes. As he remains at the center, he identifies with an adult which in many cases he has not been able to do in the past. And to transfer him anywhere is to lose an identity with that adult, which is going to be very difficult to overcome. That will probably mean that this person is going to drop out eventually. Mr. CLAY. I think you answered part of the question. What I am really trying to find out is, in your opinion, in the environment that these children come from originally, can they get the same kind of training if they remain in that environment or do you think it is necessary to remove them from that environment and establish a new set of goals and values? The present proposal now is saying that you can get the same amount of productivity out of these children if you have them close |