The CHAIRMAN. That is to do the dredging ourselves and compel them to furnish the bulkheads?

General BEACH. Yes, and the disposal areas.

Gentlemen, we have done pretty well for to-day, and we will now stand adjourned until to-morrow morning at 10.30.

(Thereupon, at 4.30 o'clock p. m., Thursday, April 3, 1924, the committee adjourned until Friday, April 4, 1924, at 10.30 o'clock a. m.)

COMMITTEE ON RIVERS AND HARBORS,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Friday, April 4, 1924..

The committee met, Hon. S. Wallace Dempsey (chairman) presiding.

STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. LANSING H. BEACH, CHIEF OF ENGINEERS, UNITED STATES ARMY

PORT ORCHARD BAY, WASH.

The CHAIRMAN. General Beach, was it your suggestion that we take up Port Orchard Bay, Wash.?

General BEACH. Yes; that is a very important little piece of work; we might take that up.

Puget Sound has one of the largest naval stations we have, or, rather, on a branch leading off from Puget Sound, at Bremerton. The channel of Bremerton extends through what is called Richs Passage, and right in the middle of Richs Passage is a very pronounced shoal.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would show us where that is on this big map.

General BEACH. It is almost directly opposite Seattle. Here is this little branch or inlet and Bremerton is right there [indicating on map]. The shoal is right at the bend here [indicating] where boats have considerable difficulty in turning. The channel is from 55 to 65 and 70 feet on each side of the shoal, but there is only a little water on top of it, so that the big boats coming in have great difficulty in getting past there making the turn.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, the channel on either side is too narrow to permit space for convenient passage?

General BEACH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And you have to have the entire width of the channel to give you the room necessary for the boats to come in there?

General BEACH. Combined with that bend, which is just beyond the shoal. And considering the fact that that is the only naval station and port of refuge north of San Francisco, and it is very important that the deepest draft naval vessels should be able to get in there.

The CHAIRMAN. I see. That is a passage leading westward past Seattle sort of a salt water bay-is it not?

General BEACH. Yes; it is a salt water bay.

The CHAIRMAN. And the naval vessels use this, you say, and for

what purposes?

General BEACH. They have to go in there for the purpose of reaching Bremerton, which is the great naval station in that part of the country.

The CHAIRMAN. Bremerton is on the bay?

General BEACH. Yes; Bremerton is on the bay.

The CHAIRMAN. And that is where your naval station is situated? General BEACH. Yes.

Mr. McDUFFIE. There seems to be deep water in both passages around Bainbridge Island.

General BEACH. Yes; plenty of water.

for maintenance at all.

There would be no cost

Mr. SEGER. What kind of a bottom is that?

Is it a rock bottom? General BEACH. A mixture of rock and silt, but I think it is largely rock.

Mr. SEGER. When it is cleared away there will be no further trouble?

General BEACH. There will be no maintenance to any extent whatever.

Mr. MANSFIELD. The purpose of this improvement is almost exclusively for the benefit of the Navy, is it?

General BEACH. Entirely for the use of the Navy.

Mr. NEWTON. Bremerton is off on one arm of the Sound; the Sound goes off by Seattle, and this is an arm of the Sound [indicating on map].

The CHAIRMAN. Is the passage used commercially at all?

General BEACH. Oh, yes; there are quite a number of locations or towns up on this Port Orchard Bay. There is Bremerton, Port Orchard, Charleston, and a good many other smaller places around the navy yard.

The CHAIRMAN. Could you give us any idea of the population on this bay, approximately?

General BEACH. No, sir; I could not do that.

Mr. NEWTON. The country is more or less undeveloped around. there; there are lots of opportunities for development there? General BEACH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is grown on the banks besides timber, if anything?.

General BEACH. There is a good deal of timber.

Mr. NEWTON. But that country is more a fruit and berry country. They do not grow corn or wheat, but small fruits.

Mr. MANSFIELD. Do they not grow apples, too?

Mr. NEWTON. Yes.

Mr. MCDUFFIE. It has railroad connections, of course?

General BEACH. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you say as to whether this is a productive country that will be benefited by having an easier water communication? How far is this shoal from Seattle?

General BEACH. I could give it to you in a moment.

Mr. NEWTON. To what extent does this affect the entrance of naval craft?

General BEACH. That is why we want the work done, for the purpose of allowing the naval vessels to get in. It has no commercial

value whatever; it is purely a military feature. The shoal is about 9 miles from Seattle the way the boats would have to travel.

Mr. NEWTON. I was up there in August, and we went aboard the flagship of the Atlantic Fleet; I think it was the California. The biggest ships in they navy have to go there, and I have seen 15 or 20 battleships at one time in that bay. They have to go in there for repairs sometimes, do they not?

General BEACH. Yes.

Mr. McDUFFIE. How far is Bremerton from the coast line? General BEACH. It is about 50 miles from the Strait of San Juan. The CHAIRMAN. Is that on an air line?

General BEACH. About the way the boats would travel.

Mr. NEWTON. I talked to the admiral up there who was in charge and he said the Navy people regard the strategic advantage of the navy yard, it being inland, as very important; they can protect it in case of war better than any other navy yard in the country. How far would it be straight across to the ocean there in a straight line? General BEACH. There is a range of mountains and the country is impassable.

Mr. NEWTON. Yes; they say that this navy yard is the best located of any in the country. It is impossible to get in with airplanes, and an enemy could not get in with battleships; in fact it would be utterly impossible for an enemy to get to that naval base.

The CHAIRMAN. How did the engineer happen to have the idea that it should be 45 feet? We have not provided for over 40 feet anywhere else. I see you recommended 40 feet and apparently the district engineer believed it should be 45 feet.

General BEACH. The way I account for that, without his explaining it to me, is that the Navy asked for 45 feet, not having full confidence in our ability to get that much even, and they were making some allowance for lumps and little pinnacles of rock or something of the kind left in there, and so as to make sure of 40 feet they asked for 45 feet.

Mr. NEWTON. Don't you think they may be anticipating larger craft, too?

General BEACH. I don't know about that. They might possibly be figuring on a vessel drawing more than the regular draft having been disabled in some way and requiring more water than usual. The CHAIRMAN. But 40 feet would take care of that, would it not? General BEACH. Forty feet, I think is sufficient.

Mr. NEWTON. Forty feet at low tide, is it not?

General BEACH. Yes.

Mr. NEWTON. You see the tide at Seattle is 17 feet.

The CHAIRMAN. We have not over 40 feet anywhere in the country, have we?

General BEACH. New York is 40 feet.

The CHAIRMAN. And Norfolk is 40 feet.

General BEACH. Part of Norfolk is 40 feet. San Francisco is 40 feet.

The CHAIRMAN. And we gave New York a second 40-foot channel in the last bill. Now, does this request come from the Navy Department to your department?

General BEACH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the Secretary of the Navy and the naval authorities deem this is necessary in the interest of the national defense?

General BEACH. Yes, sir. The depth on either side, and the fact that it is sheltered from wind so that you never get any large waves, are to be considered in connection with the depth necessary and 40 feet strikes me as being sufficient for the Government to spend their money on.

The CHAIRMAN. While the primary purpose of the improvement is in the interest of the national defense, and on the request of those who have it in charge, incidentally will it give an impetus to commercial traffic and benefit a very rich country?

General BEACH. No, sir; I do not think it has any commercial value whatever.

Mr. FREEMAN. When they cut off the timber there that country will grow almost anything, will it not?

General BEACH. That may be so, but the vessels that go in there for commercial purposes are comparatively small draft vessels, and there is no difficulty in their getting by this shoal, as the situation is at present.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the depth now?

General BEACH. It varies considerably. Thirty feet, 34 feetThe CHAIRMAN. I see here on the chart 23 feet.

General BEACH. And 34 feet in another place.

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty-three feet right toward the end of the north side.

General BEACH. That I think you will find is the number of a sounding, a boring hole to test the material.

The CHAIRMAN. Thirty-three feet. Then I see one in the middle that is 13.

General BEACH. That is a boring, I think. We want to take from about 8 to 10 feet.

Mr. WILSON. It is the intention to remove this shoal entirely? General BEACH. To a depth of 40 feet; yes.

Mr. WILSON. That takes it out.

General BEACH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of the shoal generally?

General BEACH. It is coarse but light gravel and shells, with bowlders in the northwest crossing. This material can be dredged by clamshell dipper; or by hydraulic pipe lines, and deposited without difficulty in deep water, or along the shores in the vicinity.

Mr. NEWTON. I was wondering whether there were any railroad connections with this navy yard.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know, General Beach?
General BEACH. I do not think there is any.

The CHAIRMAN. Nothing nearer than Seattle?
General BEACH. No; I think not.

The CHAIRMAN. All right; I think we understand that proposition. What is the next one?

SAN DIEGO HARBOR, CALIF.

Mr. McDUFFIE. This is in Congressman Swing's district, and I have just telephoned to his office, and I think he will be here shortly. General BEACH. If the clerk, Mr. McGann, could give us the former report on this, Document No. 1000, Sixty-sixth Congress, third

session, I think you could get rather full information from that report. I think that explains the whole thing.

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The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I think we had better have that before us. This project, as I recollect it, is one that was recommended in 1922, and the committee went over it and were ready to adopt the project; but the committee at San Diego at the last minute concluded that they would prefer to have it held because of some local conditions existing at that time. Is that correct?

General BEACH. They thought they would change their plan of building their wharf, and they finally had to come back to the original plan.

The CHAIRMAN. But that was the situation in a general way, was it not?

General BEACH. Yes, sir; it simply involved the dredging of a portion of the harbor so as to make the north side of the Municipal pier available to vessels. It involves the dredging of the area marked F on the map.

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, yes; that is near the top of the map, the north end. How do you tell how much F is, what are the limits of F?

General BEACH. The board recommends the modification of the existing project for the improvement of San Diego, Calif., to the extent of dredging to a depth of 32 feet, at mean low water that part of area F north of the prolongation of the center line of B Street, 262 feet wide, extending westerly from the United States pier head line 1,000 feet and 1,500 feet on its northerly and southerly boundaries, respectively, at an estimated cost of $149,000, provided that there shall be furnished free of cost to the United States satisfactory areas for the disposal of excavated material. It thinks that the entire amount of estimated cost should be made available in a single appropriation.

Mr. McDUFFIE. What is that cost, General?

General BEACH. $149,000. San Diego has done a good deal of work in providing proper terminals and in meeting conditions to take care of its commerce, and it seems only fair and proper that the General Government should assist to this extent.

Mr. LYON. I notice two parallel lines on the map, and between the lines the figures run from 40 to 62-32 here [indicating], and so on. Is that the present channel?

General BEACH. That is the channel; yes. This is the limit of the main channel [indicating on map].

Mr. McDUFFIE. What is the distance involved approximately in this project?

General BEACH. About 1,500 feet from the shore.

The CHAIRMAN. Were all these areas, General, D, E, and G, provided in our 1922 bill? They are mentioned on the second page of the Document 1000.

General BEACH. I would have to look it up in regard to G. I think they have all been taken up with the exception of F.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think they have all been taken care of, do you?

General BEACH. G was not. My report in 1921 was that the further improvement by the United States of San Diego Harbor is

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