Mr. MCCLELLAN. What is the estimated cost of the expenditure on the St. Francis for the reservoir there? General MARKHAM. The last I knew is that in dealing with the report submitted we looked to a disbursement of $16,000,000, and we can include that reservoir, as reported from Memphis, which fact came to me only last evening, for about the same amount of money. Mr. MCCLELLAN. That $16,000,000 also includes levee construction? General MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCLELLAN. And you think that will contribute to about a 4-inch reduction in the flood height? General MARKHAM. That is what they tell me to be calculated. Mr. RICH. I understood from the statement made this morning that you favor the reservoir system for controlling the floods on the Mississippi River? General MARKHAM. I do not. Mr. RICH. You do not? General MARKHAM. NO. Mr. RICH. I was under the impression from the statement made that that was so. General MARKHAM. No; I think the reservoir system will come into being and ultimately become an aid for all classes of dangers as it builds to its top. But there is a billion and a quarter dollars of Federal money, presumably, to go into the reservoir system before it could be alleged that it would render the lower valley safe. As the years go on, just as the past years have flown along, reservoir construction for various purposes, some for power and some for conservation, as on the Muskingum, which is going on right now. will go on; some for control, such as the control of the Monongahela River at the Tigart Reservoir, which begins to pick the edge off of the flow down the main river. So now, as I recall, of the total billion and a quarter dollars that would be necessary for the reservoirs that have been set up for Mississippi River control there has already been expended or committed about 122 percent, and, of course, the reservoirs already initiated will exercise some influence upon the heights in the lower river. It may be that, in the next 50 years, the reservoir system suggested will be completed. I would prefer to regard reservoirs as so much fat in the protection of the lower valley. Mr. RICH. If it requires a billion and a quarter to build reservoirs, what do you think it will cost ultimately to finish the work on the Mississippi? General MARKHAM. We think, subject to what will be the maintenance charges, for housekeeping, that the particular expenditure recommended will protect the valley as contemplated. Mr. RICH. What particular expenditure? General MARKHAM. That is in this report. Mr. RICH. Two hundred and thirty-five millions. General MARKHAM. Whatever the figure is for the main river— it is $181,000,000. Mr. RICH. Over what period of time do you think this money ought to be expended? General MARKHAM. We have recommended that it be spent in 6 years. Mr. RICH. That is, all of the 181 millions? General MARKHAM. In 6 years, for all that is in the report, all work up and down the river that has to do with spillways and floodways, and so forth, and for rectification in the river. Mr. RICH. You said you would do this work if the United States would furnish you the money. Do you know where or how the United States might be able to furnish you this money? General MARKHAM. I simply refer to the fact that I have never been elected to the House or the Senate, and I have no statesmanship vote. Mr. RICH. I might say for the benefit of the general that I have asked Members of Congress, and they are unable to tell me. I am trying to find out, if I can. I think the engineers of the Army, who are the people who will spend this money, might give us some idea where we can get hold of it. General MARKHAM. If Congress will delegate to us the responsibility for making an economic report on the United States, we will do it, and perhaps we can find out where to get the money. Mr. RICH. I think that would be one of the best recommendations right now, because if we do not do it very soon I do not see who we will have in the country to get a billion and a half dollars from. I think it is the most serious question we have to confront us today. General MARKHAM. We are dealing with an engineering report to Congress. Mr. RICH. I appreciate that, but I suggest that to the members of the committee, because I cannot see how we can, as members of the committee and as Members of Congress, continue to talk about spending money without trying to raise it. If we do not raise it today we are going to kill every child in the United States today with the burden that will be placed on them, or wreck the country. I think we ought to give that matter serious consideration. I was in hopes I might get some information from you, because I know you can do a good job in trying to regulate the floods on the Mississippi, and I have appreciated the statement you have made to the committee. Mr. ZIMMERMAN. I remind the gentleman from Pennsylvania that Judge Driver addressed the committee and explained where we were going to get the money. Mr. CARLSON. General Markham, I would like to ask you one or two questions in reference to reservoirs generally. We have through the central United States a territory from 1 to 700 miles wide and have suffered severely from drought and water shortage. That is a question that is going to be of vital concern. in the near future. Does your organization have authority to go on the smaller tributaries of the rivers and make surveys? General MARKHAM. We have already made surveys throughout almost all the watersheds of the United States. Your question is best answered by the fact that every one of those red spots on this map show reservoirs that have been surveyed, on which calculations have been made and benefits estimated, all of which are fully compiled by our department. Mr. CARLSON. You do not need any further authority? You have made all the surveys necessary on the entire Mississippi watershed? General MARKHAM. On practically all watersheds throughout the entire United States, and not merely the Mississippi watershed. We have investigated 200-and-odd watersheds throughout the United States and reported the results of our investigation to Congress, studied and stated the best use of water as and when the time comes for its development in respect to development for purposes of power, development for purposes of irrigation, and development for purposes of flood control and navigation. There is a volume several inches thick containing estimates which aggregate about 8 billion dollars to accomplish what we have in mind. We have all that information. Mr. CARLSON. But you have not considered this in any other way except as you have mentioned. You have considered the economic value to this vast territory for flood control, but not the value that might accrue from the dams in this great territory? General MARKHAM. Yes; that is all estimated for every one of them. Mr. CARLSON. I do not care to go into that in detail. I want to ask one or two questions of General Ferguson, and we can go into that matter later. General MARKHAM. We have compiled a bluebook which contains a compilation of all the information we have respecting what we are talking about with all the benefits to which you refer evaluated. Mr. CARLSON. I have seen a copy of the bluebook. And then, with your present program, if this fund of money were authorized and made available, you could go right ahead with this work? General MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCLELLAN. I do not know whether you can supply the figures at the moment or not, but I would like you to give us an estimate of what it would cost to place those back levees up to the 1928 grade and section. General MARKHAM. They tell me as prices go down there you can assume a figure of about four or five million dollars to increase the Cypress Creek fuseplug levee to 1928 grade and section. Mr. MCCLELLAN. That would place them in the 1928 grade and section? General MARKHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Have you the figure of what it would cost to build bank levees from Arkansas City to the mouth of the Arkansas River separate from the other expenditures? General MARKHAM. The estimate for the back levee from the Eudora floodway to the Arkansas River is $12,000,000. The CHAIRMAN. You are still confirmed in the conviction that the work should only be undertaken on the assurance of the cooperation of local interests? General MARKHAM. I know of no other method of reasonable procedure. (Thereupon the committee took a recess until 2 p. m.) AFTERNOON SESSION (Upon the expiration of the noon recess, the committee met at 2:35 p. m.) The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Mr. Chairman, before you call General Ferguson, who I understand is to be the first and chief witness for the afternoon session, Representative McGehee, who has already appeared and inserted a statement, among other things, by the citizens of Warren County, including a prepared statement by the association in the backwater area, Mr. Andrews having prepared the statement, is here, and he has several constituents from the Yazoo area who have been here several days, and Mr. McGehee would like to have them appear, if they can, during the afternoon or at the earliest practical date. I present Mr. McGehee, and you can tell him what you think you can do for him. The CHAIRMAN. Why, of course, we are bound to go ahead with General Ferguson this afternoon, but I will arrange to get to you just as soon as possible, either this afternoon, or, say, tonight. Mr. McGEHEE. Mr. Chairman, I want to say this in behalf of them: They wanted to go. Judge Montgomery, I believe you were the one? Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes. Mr. McGEHEE. Did you want to make a statement? Mr. THOMPSON. No. The CHAIRMAN. When are you prepared to leave? Mr. WHITTINGTON. Mr. McGehee, give me the names, please, and addresses, of those who wish to appear. Mr. McGEHEE. Judge M. B. Montgomery, F. R. Thompson, and J. B. Williams. Judge Montgomery and Mr. Williams are from Yazoo City, and Mr. Thompson is from Carter. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I am sure those gentlemen are not going to detain the committee. There are several of these men here, and there are some others from the other part of the Yazoo, but I am not getting them. Mr. Doxey has one gentleman from his district, and he may want to make a statement. The CHAIRMAN. If it does not put any particular burden on you, I would be glad for you to stay during this hearing and we will get to you just as soon as possible. Mr. WHITTINGTON. And it may be that General Ferguson will finish this afternoon, and if he does there may be time for them to appear. I want to do everything in the world I can to give them a hearing, because they are very much interested in it. The CHAIRMAN. We cannot regulate just how long the witnesses will take, but we will do the best we can. Mr. WHITTINGTON. I do not want to interfere with the regular order, Mr. Chairman, but I know that they would like to appear so that they can get away. STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. HARLEY B. FERGUSON, PRESIDENT MISSISSIPPI RIVER COMMISSION, VICKSBURG, MISS. The CHAIRMAN. One of the most interesting and vital questions connected with this flood-control problem that has been brought about is that relating to what might be done with reservoirs and also for cut-offs and elimination of bends and increasing the carrying capacity of the main channel of the Mississippi River. I am going to ask General Ferguson to appear and give us the information that he has gathered upon that, and I am sure that he has given fuller study to it than most anyone else. General FERGUSON. Mr. Chairman, under the 'provision of the existing law, there have been prepared what are commonly called 308 reports on practically all tributaries of the Mississippi River. Most of these reports have been completed. Many of them have been reviewed by the Board on Rivers and Harbors and submitted to Congress. In these reports, conclusions were reached as to the best method of developing the tributaries for navigation, flood control, irrigation, and power. Based on data contained in these reports, the Mississippi River Commission submitted a report on a comprehensive system of reservoirs for control of floods on the lower Mississippi River—that is, from Cairo, Ill., to the Gulf. This report has not been reviewed, as yet, by the Board on Rivers and Harbors. It has not been acted upon by the Chief of Engineers or the Secretary of War. Therefore, it represents only the conclusions of the Mississippi River Commission. I shall read these conclusions of the Commission [reading]: In conjunction with the existing main river levee system (with slight modifications) it is feasible, from an engineering viewpoint, to construct and operate a comprehensive system of reservoirs in the Mississippi River Valley which will permit carrying of the maximum probable flood (so-called superflood") to the Gulf of Mexico without making use of escape routes via the Boeuf and Atchafalaya Basins as contemplated in the existing flood-control project. Of the two systems discussed in this report, it is believed that contemplated in plan II (primarily for local flood control with incidental benefits to Mississippi River flood control) is preferable because, first, the cost of the two systems are approximately equal. Second, the larger benefit in local flood protection warrants the offset of a larger portion of the cost. Third, the operation of any system primarily for Mississippi River control is sure to bring forth strong local pressure for change in operation at critical times which might nullify the expected result in large measure. The direct benefits from the entire plan II system at the present time are not commensurate with cost. However, the completed system, in fact, is composed of the several tributary systems. Some of these have been found in themselves to be economically sound; some are actually under construction with Federal participation in the cost. It is possible, even probable, that other tributary systems will become economically sound because of future development. By the construction of these tributary systems when, as, and if they become economically feasible, the entire system will become operative over a period of years. The Mississippi River Commission recommends that the Federal Government adopt a policy encouraging and participating in the construction of feasible tributary systems which will fit into an ultimate general system for the control of lower Mississippi River floods. It is suggested that, in general, a fair distribution of the costs would be for the United States to construct the reservoirs with local interests furnishing the land, providing for all incidental damages. and operating the system after completion. The defraying of a larger portion of the cost by the United States in some instances such as the White and Arkansas systems because of their relatively larger effect on Mississippi River floods at the critical area in the vicinity of Arkansas City might be justified. The question of unemployment likewise might justify, in some instances, the reimbursement of local interests for portions of their first costs. |