ble, or engineeringly sound and safe, and then justly compensate the owners of that property which is necessarily sacrificed as a floodway to protect the balance of the flood area. We in Arkansas are sacrificed to protect you in Mississippi

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). Just to get back to the point. That levee was built back a little higher-it is probably not quite as high now as it was before the Government started on this project. Those people went down there and used wheelbarrows and built it up after the break in 1927. There are a good many bottlenecks along the Mississippi River.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I understand so; but there is no other bottleneck like that. My friends in Arkansas City say that it is less than seven-eights of a mile wide, where all this concentration basin above here, 8 miles wide, must come through, and where the levees on the opposite side are built in a way to divert the entire torrent against a fuseplug. At other bottlenecks you have all sorts of protective works built up. By design, this bottleneck has been left there to make our levee break, and actually serve as a fuseplug or safety sector for the balance of the river.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. By design, that levee has been built there for many, many years.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. That is right, on the Mississippi side.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. So that the Government engineers did not locate it. It was located by the people on the other side of the river.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I am quite sure that the Government engineers did not locate that levee in Mississippi at Catfish Point, creating this dangerous bottleneck designed to break the Arkansas levee. It is too unfair and unsound to blame on the Army engineers. They would doubtless have built the levee straight across Catfish Point, far enough back inland to have left an ample channel in the main stream to safely carry within the levees all water reaching that point from above. That levee on the Mississippi side ought to be set back

now

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). Yes. They have straightened about as many in the State of Mississippi as they have elsewhere. You see that bottleneck above that [indicating]?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Up here [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. They are up further, between Arkansas City and Friar Point, the former county seat of Coahoma County, Miss. Mr. WILLIAMSON. My understanding-is that in here [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Go back to Friar Point.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Is that it [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. You see, the water would come on the Mississippi side, and my information is that it is now about three-quarters as wide as it is down in the fuseplug area.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. It looks like there is a little bottle neck there, and I suspect the levee is pretty strong there and the channel very deep. I have never been there.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Just about as strong as it is in here [indicating].

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I am sure you do, but I want-I did not get here at the beginning of your statement-if the Cypress Creek were opened and the conditions that obtained there 10 or 15 years ago were restored, would your people favor the widening of the Boeuf floodway or would you narrow that floodway and give the relief that should be given?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Why, Mr. Whittington, if the Government repudiates the responsibility it has solemnly assumed and opens Cypress Creek, we would just move out. We are helpless and impoverished. We could not build a floodway. We would just be destroyed.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. If the backwater areas, as a result of building the levees up in 1928 and prior thereto, have had their damages increased, they are damaged without right of compensation.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I would not agree to that without asking a court. I think they are entitled to compensation because of the national recognition of the responsibility.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I am encouraged to hear that.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. You bring a suit like that, and I will go back there and help you.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. You spoke about Cypress Creek and the bottleneck. That levee on the Mississippi side was in there, about where it has been. Has that been moved back somewhat?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I do not know.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That levee was there when Cypress Creek was closed on the Arkansas River side 15 years ago?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir; and there was

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). But my question is-my levee on the Mississippi side was over there before you built a levee on the Arkansas side.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir. You folks were 100 years ahead of us in Mississippi.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I agree with you.

Now, Mr. Williamson, a lot has been said here about the difference in height of those levees. It is your idea that if that lever on the Mississippi side is higher than it was in 1928, when this act was passed

Mr. WILLIAMSON (interposing). If it is not, it ought to be, becaus the Congress declared that it ought to be. I do not know whether the law

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). You do not know about that? Mr. WILLIAMSON. No, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I may state to you that, generally, I doubt if that levee I think it is stronger and I think it is wider and I think the Government has done the best job it could there and everwhere else in the valley, bringing the greatest good to the greate number-but I doubt if that levee is higher than it was in 1928

Mr. WILLIAMSON. For our encouragement, do you think that it liable to break on the Mississippi side before it breaks on th Arkansas side?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I hope

Mr. WILLIAMSON (interposing). We want it to go our way, be cause it is now the legal way, but we want the law fully executi We want the Government to protect as much of the area as is pos

ble, or engineeringly sound and safe, and then justly compensate the owners of that property which is necessarily sacrificed as a floodway to protect the balance of the flood area. We in Arkansas are sacrificed to protect you in Mississippi

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). Just to get back to the point. That levee was built back a little higher-it is probably not quite as high now as it was before the Government started on this project. Those people went down there and used wheelbarrows and built it up after the break in 1927. There are a good many bottlenecks along the Mississippi River.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I understand so; but there is no other bottleneck like that. My friends in Arkansas City say that it is less than seven-eights of a mile wide, where all this concentration basin above here, 8 miles wide, must come through, and where the levees on the opposite side are built in a way to divert the entire torrent against a fuse plug. At other bottlenecks you have all sorts of protective works built up. By design, this bottleneck has been left there to make our levee break, and actually serve as a fuseplug or safety sector for the balance of the river.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. By design, that levee has been built there for many, many years.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. That is right, on the Mississippi side.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. So that the Government engineers did not locate it. It was located by the people on the other side of the river.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I am quite sure that the Government engineers did not locate that levee in Mississippi at Catfish Point, creating this dangerous bottleneck designed to break the Arkansas levee. It is too unfair and unsound to blame on the Army engineers. They would doubtless have built the levee straight across Catfish Point, far enough back inland to have left an ample channel in the main stream to safely carry within the levees all water reaching that point from above. That levee on the Mississippi side ought to be set back

now

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). Yes. They have straightened about as many in the State of Mississippi as they have elsewhere. You see that bottleneck above that [indicating]?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Up here [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. They are up further, between Arkansas City and Friar Point, the former county seat of Coahoma County, Miss. Mr. WILLIAMSON. My understanding-is that in here [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Go back to Friar Point.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Is that it [indicating]?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. You see, the water would come on the Mississippi side, and my information is that it is now about three-quarters is wide as it is down in the fuseplug area.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. It looks like there is a little bottle neck there, nd I suspect the levee is pretty strong there and the channel very leep. I have never been there.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Just about as strong as it is in here [indiating].

But the point is that there is a bottleneck there. My understanding is that it is much less there than it is below. My understanding is that it is 3,000 feet at Vidalia and probably half that distance across in the city of New Orleans.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. My understanding is that the purpose of this law is to authorize and direct the engineers, at every one of these points you mention, to so build the levees that they will carry the river; whereas, the law directs that it shall be so built that our fuseplug levee [indicating] will go out and the engineers have executed that law. Hence, you are safe and we are doomed to destruction whenever the rains descend and the floods come.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Instead of providing that that whole valley would go out and that the flood will go where it has

Mr. WILLIAMSON (interposing). Yes, sir; and it is a wise provision, for which the Government should pay.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Now, Mr. Williamson, after all is said and done, you do not know about any increase of burdens to any other section of the valley, as I understand it?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. No, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Now, as between the recommendation of the Chief of Engineers and the pending bill and the existing law, what would you say and which would you say would be for the greater benefit of the people in the valley?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. The existing law, because-that does not sound reasonable on the face of it, and I would like to explain that. I say the existing law, because the existing law involves an assumption of responsibility by the Government. And, if this session of the Congress does not discharge that responsibility, some Congress will come along that will do it. But if the pending bill is adopted, the responsibility of the Government is wiped out; and from then on we are helpless and

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). My question is, representing the people in the lower valley down there, you ask protection; I will ask you to state whether or not they will prefer, and you, as their spokesman, will prefer, the existing law, the act of 1928, to an act that carries into effect the recommendation in Committee Document No. 1, under consideration?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. In my opinion, the existing law, because, while we are heartily in favor of the engineering features of General Markham's report, we cannot surrender the Government responsibility and liability that was assumed in 1928; and I understand that if General Markham's recommendation is adopted in toto, you would repeal section 4 of the act of May 15, 1928.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. That would be the sentiment of the people that you represent, of the people in the Boeuf Basin, in Arkansas? Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. You do not speak for the people in the larger Boeuf Basin below that?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I do not know about that.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. You do not know about that?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I am just speaking for this area in here [indicating]. We have such confidence in the Congress discharging that responsibility that you gentlemen won for us, that it is unthinkable

to us to surrender what we won after such a magnificent battle, in 1928.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I just wanted to get your opinion for the record. I am not inclined to take issue with you at all.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Generally, in flood-control work in the lower Mississippi Valley, since the Mississippi River Commission was established, in 1879, has it ever done any work of any kind unless the local interests first furnished the rights-of-way, except for the Bonnet Carre Spillway and/or the set-back in the New Madrid area?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I do not think so, because, until the act of May 15, 1928, the Government had never assumed the responsibility for it. Mr. WHITTINGTON. Have they on the main river

Mr. WILLIAMSON (interposing). Not on the main river.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. Just a moment. Have they undertaken to do any work on the main river, unless the local interests have furnished the rights-of-way?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. No, sir; because former legislation provides that that shall not be done; but the present law, act of May 15, 1928, provides that the United States shall provide not only flowage rights from levees on the main stem of the river but also rights-of-way for the guide levees. The President of the United States directed the Army Engineers to go down there and condemn those rights-of-way and not

Mr. WHITTINGTON (interposing). Congress passed the law and they have stated very frankly that the reason they have not done it was because the local interests did not want it done.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I did not know Federal law could be repealed by local opposition. General Markham is imminently correct, because flood control will never be solved if you let local interests settle it; and that is for you gentlemen, around this great big table up here, to do, advised by the Army Engineers.

The CHAIRMAN. If section 4 is left as is, which plan would you prefer?

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I would be so doubtful about where we would be left that I just would not know; but I will be very frank with you. My folks sent me up here with the mission to tell our Congressman, Mr. McClellan, that unless he could retain for us those rights that we think we have under the act of 1928, to please see that the Congress does not do anything, but just leave us to our rights in the courts.

But we cannot conceive that this committee will do that, because it is not necessary. We feel that this committee will take care of our economic security, just as magnificently as the engineers have taken care of the engineering part. That is the appeal we make to you.

Mr. ZIMMERMAN. I understood you to tell Mr. Whittington awhile ago that this fuseplug levee, about which so much has been said, has successfully carried the water down by the area where you are interested every year since 1927.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. I think so; yes, sir; and even in 1927.

Mr. ZIMMERMAN. Yes, sir. That is about 8 years.

Mr. WILLIAMSON. Yes, sir. We have had an exceedingly dry time.