upon the preceding testimony of Mr. Link. Is it the pleasure of the committee that that should be done on this occasion or omitted?

The CHAIRMAN. I think Mr. Link gave his testimony in the record, and also upon a former hearing, and I do not think there is any need for rebuttal.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Senator Kean desired to ask Commander Rosendahl one or two more questions, and also he has some figures he has been asked to supply.

Representative DELANEY. May I interrupt there? At the conclusion of Commander Rosendahl's testimony, which I assume is to be the last, and which may not be very lengthy, would you be good enough to give us your view as to what the committee should do?

The CHAIRMAN. My view is as soon as possible after this testimony is all printed and put in pamphlet form, so that we shall have a chance to examine it, that we should meet some day this week for a further discussion and consideration.

If the committee agrees, at the conclusion of the hearing today this committee will adjourn and meet at 10 o'clock on Saturday morning in this room.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Commander Rosendahl, will you resume the stand?

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF LIEUTENANT COMMANDER C. E.

ROSENDAHL

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. You understand, Commander, your oath is still in effect?

Lieutenant Commander RoSENDAHL. I do, sir.

Senator KEAN. Commander, you heard Admiral Upham's testimony that you had had Captain McCord under you, and I would like to have a description from you of what goes on in the ship and what opportunity you had, or anybody has, to judge of the qualifications and the decisions of a junior officer under you? What is the custom; you can go right on and describe the whole thing.

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. The training of officers for the qualification of naval aviator (airship) consists of practical work in airships, in rigid airships, as well as their technical ground school course. On each flight of any rigid airship, the commanding officer notifies the commanding officer of the station as to the number of student officers that he could accommodate. The station commanding officer then details such student officers to make that particular flight, in a student capacity. In accordance with the syllabus for training, each student officer is required to perform a certain number of hours under instruction at each of several stations, consequently Commander McCord in his training for the designation of naval aviator, airship, went through training in a number of various billets, on board the Los Angeles under the direct supervision of whatever officer happened to be the head of that department in the ship's organization. Then reports were made by the officers concerned in the ship's company to the qualification board on the station assigning marks for the performance of that duty, and in command, that they saw fit, on that performance of duty. The only time Commander McCord ever came under me in any way was during the period when I was the commanding officer of the Los Angeles and he was undergoing his training as a student naval aviator.

Senator KEAN. Well, when he came, is there any time that you put a junior officer temporarily in charge of the ship to find out whether he could operate?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Occasionally that was done, but in general the students had no responsibility whatsoever and were there merely to learn what they could by observation and by doing similar duties at the same time with the ship's officer who was responsible for the performing of those same duties.

Senator KEAN. Have all of the officers that have been in command of the ships gone through that training?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes, sir; they have all gone through the complete course for naval aviator (airship) and then in addition, those who have had command, with the exception of Lieutenant Commander Wiley, were given an additional period under instruction for command. That is what I described as the "MakeYou-Learn Skipper." Such officers were assigned to the airship without any responsibility whatsoever on the ship, but were given the free run of the ship to observe in any way they wanted to and they were, of course, able to make their own decisions, parallel to those of the commanding officer, but they had no weight whatsoever, because the commanding officer was still responsible for the ship, of course.

Senator KEAN. Have you any suggestions as to a better way of training these people so that they will be more efficient and particularly in judgment, so that their judgment could be tested?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. The fundamentals of the system are correct; I believe it might be possible to-it certainly would be possible to require officers under instruction for command to submit, much in the form of lessons or tasks assigned, a written analysis of the situation and the decisions that they would make under those conditions. It is likewise possible, of course, to permit them to make take-offs and landings and moorings under the direction of the commanding officer of the ship.

Representative ANDREW. That is not done?

Representative HOPE. None of those things are done at the present? Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Not very frequently, for the reason that the commanding officer himself is generally trying to get as much experience as possible. In other words, with a limited number of ships, there is not much opportunity to do that sort of thing. Representative HARTER. Would you say that the officer who is assigned to an airship for training under the present system is more in the capacity of an observer rather than a student or a scholar?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. He is an observer, in effect, and of course the amount that any one officer learns or observes from that method is largely in accordance with his own capabilities. Representative HARTER. And his personal initiative?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. And his personal initiative; and it is largely up to him, but, knowing of course he is in line for command, he naturally takes very considerable interest.

Representative HARTER. Now, does the commander or the skipper under him, the prospective candidate for the duties of the skipper, making his observations, does the skipper give this man a rating who is the observer?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. I cannot say just what the practice has been in that regard, because the only officer who has

been attached to any airship command I had in the instruction capacity for command was Commander Dressel, who made the flight to the Pacific coast and back in 1932 in the Akron, as an observer, with the understanding that he was going to succeed to the command. I was not called on, however, to assign any mark in his performance of duty, for the reason that we have what we call a rigid airship training and experimental squadron, composed at that time entirely of the Akron; that is, the Akron was the only ship in the squadron, but the commander of that rigid airship training and experimental squadron, Captain Shoemaker, was of course the officer charged with recommendations as to personnel.

Senator KEAN. What experience had Captain Shoemaker?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Captain Shoemaker came to Lakehurst at the same time that Commander Dressel and that class came for training, in the summer of 1929, as I recall, completed his course and became qualified as a naval aviator (airship); then became the commanding officer of the naval air station at Lakehurst, and the commander, rigid airship training and experimental squadron.

Senator KEAN. He had had no flying experience, had he?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. He had had such flying experience as he had obtained during his student naval aviator days and such flights as he made afterwards.

Senator KEAN. Well, that is very little; he never had charge of a ship?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. He never had command of a rigid airship; no, sir.

Senator KEAN. Had flown very little?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. He had flown a considerable amount, just how many hours I do not know.

Senator KEAN. As an observer; is that right?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes, sir; and in his capacity as commander, rigid airship training experimental squadron, after his assumption of that duty.

Senator KEAN. That did not give him command of a ship in any way, did it?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. No, sir; except that the ship was under his administrative command, as a unit of the squadron. Senator KEAN. But that did not give him command of the ship? Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. No, sir.

Senator KEAN. Now, then, he recommended to Commander Dressel?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. That is correct.

Senator KEAN. Now, what experience has Commander Dressel had? Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. I believe that is already in the record, Senator; he came to Lakehurst in the summer of 1929 and became a student naval aviator.

Senator KEAN. What I am getting at, that is not what I want; I want to know whether he was in command of a ship.

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes, sir; he had the command of the Los Angeles following Lieutenant Commander Clarke for some period.

Senator KEAN. For how long?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. One year, sir.

Senator KEAN. And during that time did he have many flights?

Representative HARTER. Pardon me, Senator, this is in the record as of yesterday: Commander A. H. Dressel assumed command in 1931; had 700 hours' experience, including several months as understudy to Clark. He kept command 1 year and flew successfully about 600 hours. That was inserted in the record by Admiral King yesterday at my request, the record of the different commanders upon. the different ships.

Senator KEAN. Well, he has had about 800 hours' experience?

Representative HARTER. Seven hundred, at the time he took the Los Angeles.

Senator KEAN. Do you know whether he has ever been out in thunderstorms or any difficult positions?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Undoubtedly he has.
Senator KEAN. That is all I have.

Representative HARTER. Commander, on this flight to the west coast, when you were in command of the Akron, Commander Dressel accompanied you on that trip as an observer?

Lieutenant Commander RoSENDAHL. Yes, sir.

Representative HARTER. And bis qualifications to take command of an airship was then passed upon by Captain Shoemaker? Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes, sir.

Representative HARTER. Did Captain Shoemaker accompany the ship on that trip to the west coast?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. He did not, sir.

Representative HARTER. Did he have any opportunity of observing the actions of the ship and its personnel, including Commander Dressel, during that flight?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Only on the initial take-off at Lakehurst and the return to Lakehurst which he observed from the ground, of course.

Representative HARTER. Were you called upon to make any recommendation as to who should command the Akron?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. No, sir; those orders were issued before we went to the west coast.

Representative HARTER. Well, I refer to a later date, after you were relieved of the command of the Akron, were you asked to recommend any officer or officers to place in command of the Akron?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. I was never officially requested; no, sir.

Representative HARTER. Did you discuss the matter with Admiral

Moffett?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. I had numerous discussions with Admiral Moffett in regard to personnel matters and naturally the command consideration came into that.

Representative HARTER. Would you have any objection or hesitancy in informing the committee whether you made a recommendation to Admiral Moffett as to who should be placed in command of the Akron?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. I do not know that it is of any value, but I felt that from the standpoint of continuity and experience that Lieutenant Commander Wiley should have had a chance at the command of the ship.

Representative HARTER. That is all.

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Representative HOPE. I would like to ask a question in connection with a statement you made a while ago as to the period in training where a student officer was given the opportunity of deciding his own course to be followed in the navigation of a ship. I think I understood you to say there was a period when he would be placed on the ship and given an opportunity to make his own decision, not however having command of the ship. Is there any record kept of the decisions which were arrived at by these student officers during that period of training?

Lieutenant Commander RoSENDAHL. I believe not, sir.

Representative HOPE. That is assuming that you had a student officer or observer under you, such as Commander Dressel, when he went to the west coast on that trip, was that one of the occasions that you had in mind when you say he was given the opportunity to exercise his judgment as to what should be done in situations that might arise?

Lieutenant Commander RoSENDAHL. It was such a situation; yes. Representative HOPE. As I would understand it, he would come to his own independent decisions as to what should be done, and you, of course, as commander of the ship could decide, and there would be no record kept then of what his decision and judgment in those matters might have been?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. No; the commanding officer of the ship need not necessarily know what the student had decided. Representative HOPE. That would be left entirely up to him? Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Exactly.

Representative HOPE. Just to give him the opportunity to exercise his own judgment under such conditions and situations as might arise were he to be in command of the ship?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes; and further he had, as I say, the full run of the ship and he was always welcome at any discussions or conferences with the commander of the ship or that the commander of the ship had when he made his own decisions.

Representative HOPE. And did you at the time discuss with these observers the matter of those decisions; did he express his opinion as to what he would have done had you discussed what you had done and why you did it?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. Yes; we had numerous conferences and discussions on various matters.

Representative HOPE. But there was no record kept in cases of that kind by which Captain Shoemaker or whoever might have had authority to make decisions in the matter could have formed an opinion as to the ability of the particular officer in question to command a ship?

Lieutenant Commander ROSENDAHL. There were not, but as a matter of fact the orders for his succession to command had been issued and my orders for detachment had been issued before we left. for the Pacific coast.

Representative HOPE. Now, do you think there would be any value in following a course of that kind; that is, keeping a record of those decisions so that the officer who is called upon to make an appointment, or recommend to appointment, would have a record on which to base his judgment as to the ability of the officer to command the ship?