Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. I think the Akron was operated on the same conservative principles that the Los Angeles was, sir. Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. What I am really driving at was one of these disasters causes a period of more conservative operation, which, as it recedes into the past, is lost sight of and permits a departure from conservatism, and then there is trouble.

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. No, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. You do not think the Macon will be operated more conservatively than the Akron?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. The operating-I will answer your question by no.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Is there any lesson to be derived from the loss of the Akron?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Probably, or at least possibly, I cannot say in what way, because I am not familiar with the details of that loss, sir; those details may not be known; if all of the circumstances were known that led up and contributed toward her loss, without any doubt lessons could be drawn from those things, but whether there is such precise knowledge, I do not know now.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Do you think it desirable for the Government of the United States to continue the operation of airships? Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Very desirable, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Do you consider the airship an essential and vital element of the Fleet?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Absolutely.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Do you consider it can perform functions denied to the airplane carrier?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Absolutely, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. What is its unique function?
Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. As compared to the

surface cruiser or airplane carrier, superior speed, much superior speed, that is twice the speed by any surface vessel in cruising range compared to a surface vessel at higher speed, compared to the scout cruiser that is the real comparison, because the airship is a scouting vessel; compared to the surface scout cruiser, the airship is under many circumstances a much better scout cruiser. She can scout a much greater area in a given time, or a given area in much quicker or shorter time than can a surface scout cruiser. In addition to that there is the matter of economy, straight money economy. The airship is very economical to build, operate and maintain, compared to the surface cruiser, and she is much more efficient in the accomplishment of her missions.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Do you believe that the main function of an airship is as a carrier of airplanes?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Not in the sense the carrier is used in connection with surface carriers, no; these airships are built as scouting vessels; it is possible, technically, to build an airship as an airplane carrier, that is, put the airplane carrier characteristics into the ship and she would then be a carrier and not a scouting vessel. Scouting airships will use their planes largely in the same way the surface cruisers use theirs, to extend the vision of the airship.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. For the purpose of comparison what is the nearest surface ship in point of comparison to an airship?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. What is the first part of the question?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. For the sake of comparison, what type of surface ship compares with a ship of this kind?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. The light cruiser.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. The cost of maintaining the light cruiser would be how much greater than maintaining a ship of this character, crew and everything considered, the cost for instance of the light cruiser in the first instance would be about what, 8 or 9 million dollars?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Yes sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. It would carry a crew of how much? The cruiser would carry what crew?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. About 450 officers and men. Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Then, the cost of an airship would be approximately, we will say, $5,000,000, in round numbers?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. I think four million would probably be a better figure.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. And it carries a full crew of about 73 officers and men?

Lieutenent Commander SETTLE. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. So, as compared with a surface ship, the nearest comparison you can make with a lighter-than-air craft, the cost is half the cost of the cruiser, that is the cost of the airship, and carries about 25 percent less crew.

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. It is all of that, sir; we will say a comparison of 500 to 75.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. That would be about 15 percent.
Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Yes.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. And the cost of operation is very much more than that of a cruiser?

Lieutenant Commander SETTLE. Very much smaller; the further comparison is the shore establishment to maintain and house the two types of vessels, the airship comparing favorably there in that the shore, docks and ground handling gear, masts, and so forth, are very cheap compared with the navy yard facilities that must be provided for the surface cruisers.

Representative DELANEY. Pardon the interruption; I want to get that in the record.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. I am through with my questions.

Representative DELANEY. Does any member of the committee wish to ask the lieutenant any questions?

Thank you very much lieutenant, and I think that your testimony has been very illuminating to the committee.

On page 365 of the record, I made a statement, quoting a memorandum from the report of Commander Wiley, and I ended with the words "but it never came.'

I should have gone further in that statement of mine in quoting Commander Wiley and say what Commander Wiley did say in the following paragraph, and he said this: "Now, that I review the situation, the lack of a crash at the stern is explained by the fact that the stern was already in the water and did not leave it after the first impact." That is just simply to clear the record so as to give the true import of what Commander Wiley said in his report.

If it pleases the committee, we shall recess now until 2:30 this afternoon.

(Thereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the committee recessed until 2:30 p.m. of the same day.)

AFTER RECESS

Upon the expiration of the recess, the hearing was resumed. Representative DELANEY (presiding). Let us come to order. Commander Settle, I believe, was the last witness before recess, and I think we had finished with him?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Which witness do you desire to interrogate now?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Lieutenant Knox.

TESTIMONY OF LT. C. V. S. KNOX, CONSTRUCTION CORPS, UNITED STATES NAVY

(The witness was duly sworn by the acting chairman.)

Representative DELANEY. Give your name and title and the work that you are doing.

I might say for the benefit of Senator Kean, who was not present this morning, that we had Lieutenant Commander Settle on the stand, and he gave his testimony which will be handed to you tomorrow morning.

Senator KEAN. Has he finished?

Representative DELANEY. He has finished.

Representative ANDREW. You will find his testimony very infor

mative.

Lieutenant KNOX. My name is Lt. C. V. S. Knox, Construction Corps, United States Navy.

Senator KEAN. You are located where?

Lieutenant KNOX. In the office of the inspector of naval aircraft, Goodyear-Zeppelin Corporation, Akron, Ohio.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Will you please state your naval experience, particularly with regard to aeronautics?

Lieutenant KNOX. I have been on naval inspection work, as a naval constructor, for about 12 years. That has been on both lighter-than-air and heavier-than-air, principally lighter-than-air. Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Are you a pilot?

Lieutenant KNOX. No, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Merely an inspection officer?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes, sir, and an engineer.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Did you hear Lieutenant Settle's description of the organization of the inspection service at Akron?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Was that accurate?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. And you are a member of that inspection office?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. What is your function?

Lieutenant KNOX. In charge of the inspection proper. I have under me 11 civilian assistants, two on fabric and gas-cell work,

Representative HARTER. And you are not familiar, I take it, with the type of construction of the Shenandoah?

Lieutenant KNOX. Only in a very general way, and by hearsay. I was stationed at the Naval Aircraft Factory at the time the ship was completed, but my duties did not bring me in contact with it. Senator KEAN. Where was that?

Lieutenant KNOX. At the Naval Aircraft Factory in Philadelphia. Representative HARTER. Have you any way of comparing, from your own knowledge, the construction of the Shenandoah and that of the Akron and the Macon?

Lieutenant KNOX. Not as to workmanship; no, sir.

Representative HARTER. What was the type of workmanship on the

Akron?

Lieutenant KNOX. It was excellent.

Representative HARTER. I believe you testified that you have been assigned to this type of work which you have been doing for the past 12 years.

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes.

Representative HARTER. Have you been assigned to duty upon a surface ship during that period?

Lieutenant KNOX. No, sir; I am a naval constructor.

Representative HARTER. One in that capacity is never assigned to a surface ship?

Lieutenant KNOX. Not ordinarily. He may be assigned to work on surface ships, but not regularly detailed to sail with them. In other words, the work on surface ships would be principally at navy yards.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. There have been rumors of the possibility of sabotage in the construction of the Akron. Do you know anything about that?

Lieutenant KNOX. I know that there was quite a stir at the factory's plant during the construction of the Akron. One of the men in particular was accused of doing some damage. As the result of an investigation, then, the work that this particular man had been on in the assembly of the ship was carefully looked into. Of course, it has been inspected like the work of any other man, but they brought out the record of the work that this man had done, and it was very carefully reinspected, and no damage could be found.

I believe this was also a matter of investigation by a board in the Navy Department, which has been brought out in testimony before a different committee.

I might amplify a little what I said before about inspection of the construction. Aside from the materials, there are, as you can see on the model, throughout the ship many joints. There may be 1,200 or 1,500 joints in the ship. In other words, each intersection in the model represents a joint, and for that joint there is a drawing, a blue print, and the usual set up is that when a workman completes a joint, he tells his supervisor that it is done, and if there are any special kinks to it, the supervisor would look it over and question the man.

Then the Goodyear-Zeppelin inspector is notified that that work is done. The Goodyear-Zeppelin inspector takes the drawing for that joint, goes over the workmanship, and sees that it is good workmanship and conforms to the drawing, and, when he is satisfied, he writes it down on a list or log, as we call it, giving the drawing number and the location of that joint.

Lieutenant KNOX. But that is not a material. I understood that you were speaking of raw material.

If it were sheet stock, a sample would be taken and broken in a testing machine. If it were bar stock, they would cut a bar sample.

A girder would be one of a certain type. The contract required that the contractor should test approximately a dozen girders for strength. Actually they tested a great many more than that, somewhere between 50 and 100, and that would be a type, a load of that girder. There would be a girder carrying a certain test and made to make the smallest weight possible, so that they would test it for that class of girder, of that thickness of metal, and they might not use it when the load exceeded a certain figure. If it was a girder requiring a heavier load, we would make another estimate. Eventually they wound up with a series of perhaps a dozen or 15 types of girder, one of which they had tested in several lengths, so they submitted their design calculations of the actual tests. Then, in order to know that the ship had girders when it was built that were as strong as the test girder, it was a question of seeing that it was the same kind of material, that the thickness was up to test thickness, and the workmanship of equal excellence.

Senator KEAN. But you have no way of telling whether there was a flaw in that steel or not, have you?

Lieutenant KNOX. In general, yes. If the material is steel, it is generally heat treated, and in a heat treatment, if there are any cracks, they are likely to come out, and, after all, a heat treatment is the most critical inspection of steel. After you clean off the scale on it, you can see the cracks if the metal is inferior, as in bending, and if it is too hard, or has some flaw in the raw metal, that will show somewhere in the bends, and you can see the crack.

Senator KEAN. But, as to the aluminum, if that is too hard you can see the cracks in the bending?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes.

Senator KEAN. But an aluminum alloy bends much more easily. Lieutenant KNOX. Yes; I should have said aluminum alloy. In general, the main structure of the ship is made from aluminum alloy. Aluminum is used more principally in tanks, on account of its welding properties.

Representative DELANEY. Did you testify before the naval court of inquiry?

Lieutenant KNOX. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Were you asked to testify?

Lieutenant Knox. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Was Lieutenant Commander Settle a witness there?

Lieutenant KNOX. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Do you know of any reason why you were not called to that inquiry?

Lieutenant KNOX. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Is that all you have to offer with him,

Colonel?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Yes.

Representative HARTER. Lieutenant, did you have anything to do with the construction or inspection of the Shenandoah? Lieutenant KNOX. No, sir.