Representative DELANEY. All right.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Has served in lighter-than-air since 1919; served on Shenendoah, Los Angeles, and Akron, with various ratings, being one of the most experienced men in lower ratings. Can testify on the Akron disaster, the use of elevators, the training of elevator men, rigging, training of recruits, and general lighter-than-air practice. Is that a correct statement of your service?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Mr. Deal, will you please state to the committee your recollection of the events leading up to and transpiring during the last fatal trip of the Akron?

Representative DELANEY. And you might do that with as little repetition as possible. Just give the salient points in your testimony so as to expedite the hearing here.

Mr. DEAL. I went on watch at 8 o'clock in my section; at 9 o'clock I went to the control car, took the elevator wheel, was on the wheel from 9 until 10.

Senator KEAN. You were in the control car?

Mr. DEAL. From 9 to 10, yes; from 10 to 11 I left the wheel and was observing another elevator man standing by; at 11 o'clock I went out in the keel and stayed there until 11:30; took a water ballast reading; took the water ballast reading to the control car and marked it on the board; there I was told when it was time to ship water forward, but the order was countermanded by my section chief, who told me to take this water ballast reading. At 12 o'clock I went into the smoking room, took a smoke, came out of the smoking room about 5 minutes after 12 with Stein. I spoke to him for a moment or two and then went up to my bunk. I took my shoes off. That was all. I was lying there a couple of minutes. I heard No. 8 engine ring through full speed, and felt the ship go ahead a little faster. I guessed the speed of this engine, it ran for about 2 minutes and stopped, or slowed down to the speed it was running at before. Senator KEAN. Why was that?

Mr. DEAL. I do not know, sir; that order came from the control room. I imagine I lay there a couple of more minutes and was lying face outward on one of the outer bunks. I looked up and No. 7 cell was surging quite a bit more than it normally does, and I stepped out of my bunk; as I stepped out the wires started to break there and Nos. 7 and 8 longitudinals opened.

Representative ANDREW. What was that again?

Senator KEAN. You might go on and point to the model and show us.

Representative ANDREW. You said the longitudinals had broken. Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir; I was in a position opposite here; on the other side of the ship [indicating the model].

Representative ANDREW. That is where your bunk was?

Mr. DEAL. That is where I was lying; yes, sir. When I got out of my bunk I stood on the keel, and these two girders opened and wires were breaking, and simultaneous with this the ship was in a downward descent by the stern. I walked forward of this gasoline tank. I was on the other side of the ship. This tank broke loose from its suspension and dropped. I then walked forward to this position on the other side of the ship, and the ship crashed into the water.

Senator KEAN. What was that?

Mr. DEAL. The water came up through the keel at this point, and I went under the water with the ship.

Senator KEAN. You went under the water with the ship?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Senator KEAN. How did you get out of the ship?

Mr. DEAL. I do not know, sir; it just broke up around me, I imagine.

Representative ANDREW. He asked you how you got out.

Mr. DEAL. I do not know how I got out.

Representative MCSWAIN. Do you mean you lost consciousness, or you do not know what happened?

Mr. DEAL. I do not know what happened.

Representative MCSWAIN. You were in, and lo and behold you find yourself out.

Mr. DEAL. Yes; I might have been shot out by some of the gasoline, because when I came to the surface of the water I was swimming in gasoline. We were in the water, according to the report of the captain of the German tanker, the report he gave us, possibly 40 or 50 minutes. I heard probably 6 or 8 men yelling for help. I saw the flares on the ship; I imagine they were the flares going off. I had been swimming quite a while; I saw this gasoline tank go by with three men on it, by the lightning flash, and I caught on to it, and we had difficulty staying on the tank, as the waves would wash us off, and one man on there tried to crawl to the top of the tank. Representative DELANEY. Your story is perhaps going to be like Commander Wiley's story about holding on to the tank and being taken to the Brooklyn Navy Yard by the tanker.

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. That is not important, because it is repetition. I think, Colonel, if you just pursue a line of questioning as to what happened on the ship and what he thinks about the cause of the wreck. This will be a repetition of what Commander Wiley has already testified to.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Yes, sir. What do you think was the cause of the wreck, Mr. Deal?

Mr. DEAL. I have not had enough experience in weather or Navy scouting in weather to be able to give any technical explanation of the weather, and I think Commander Wiley and those officers who have had that experience are more apt to be able to testify to that than I am.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Do you think there was any structural failure before the stern crashed?

Mr. DEAL. I think so; I was almost positive these girders were cracking before the tail hit the water. The reason for that, although they were not major structural defects, and the keel was intact until it hit the water, from the time I left my bunk at 118 until I walked to 170 was quite some time, because the inclination of the ship was getting greater all of the time, and when I reached 170 I must have stood there a minute or 2 before the lights went out.

Representative DELANEY. Do you think the uncompleted repairs which were in progress before the ship sailed had anything to do with her breaking up?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. You do not think so?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir; that is as far as I am able to judge; we have no knowledge of repairs.

Representative DELANEY. You did know they were making repairs on this ship?

Mr. DEAL. We were ordered to make repairs, and we did what repairs we were authorized to do, but the structural parts of the ship we had nothing to do with.

Representative ANDREW. Were you conscious of the shock when the stern hit the water?

Mr. DEAL. Well, no; I would not say that I was. I know it hit the water, but I do not know just how long before the stern hit, before the water came up to us.

Mr. ANDREW. You were not conscious of a sudden shock?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. AS I recall your testimony before, you were lying in your bunk, and you got up, and you saw these things cracking.

Mr. DEAL. I saw them as I got out of my bunk.

Representative DELANEY. You did not see them when you were lying there?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative ANDREW. Your impression was that the girders broke before the tail had struck the water and that this tank detached itself?

Mr. DEAL. That was my opinion.

Senator KEAN. You did not feel any shock?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Senator KEAN. What angle was the ship on when you started to walk toward the bow?

Mr. DEAL. Well, the angle was not so great when I started to walk; when I continued walking the angle increased.

Senator KEAN. How high did you think it got?

Mr. DEAL. Well, it was the most abrupt angle I have ever seen any ship in; I do not know; I do not have any way of telling just what the angle would be.

Senator KEAN. Would you think it was 30 degrees?

Mr. DEAL. It was probably 30 to 45 degrees.

Representative DELANEY. Did you hear any warning sound that you were preparing to land?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. You did not hear that?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. But there was a warning given; five blasts of the siren.

Mr. DEAL. According to Erwin, there was orders given, but I did not hear it.

Representative DELANEY. What was the reason for your not hearing it?

Mr. DEAL. I do not know; I just did not hear it. This man may have spoken in a low voice to everyone.

Representative DELANEY. Ordinarily that siren sounds all over the ship, and everybody should hear it.

Mr. DEAL. We have telephones to go to landing stations. I did not hear the telephone; I heard the engine telegraphs ringing just before the part of the ship that I was in went under the water, and probably 2 or 3 seconds before the lights went out, this engine telegraph was ringing.

Representative DELANEY. Was the ship fully equipped for an emergency; that is, with life belts and rafts?

Mr. DEAL. As far as I know, we had a life raft on that ship.
Representative DELANEY. One life raft?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. That would hold how many?
Mr. DEAL. I do not know, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Have you any signal for danger, for instance, emergency landings; are there any instructions given to the men that at that moment they are to don a life belt or to go to the nearest lifeboat?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir; we had no instructions like that.

Representative DELANEY. No preparation made along that line

at all?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Do you not think that is rather careless on the part of the officials not to prepare things in that way?

Mr. DEAL. I think every man that has been in that game with the experience that they had would not need any instructions.

Representative DELANEY. In this instance they did not get the life belts and did not get the life raft.

Mr. DEAL. Even if we had had instructions to do that. I doubt whether anybody would have attempted to do it.

Representative DELANEY. Because of the time?

Mr. DEAL. Not because of the lack of time; we had 3 or 4 minutes from the time I saw these girders go until I reached the bow of the ship and waited.

Representative DELANEY. As a matter of fact, a number of bodies. were thrown into the sea; we are to assume that some bodies were found afterward and others were not recovered; as a matter of fact, had these men had life belts on, they might have had a better chance of being saved.

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Do you not think it is a mistake not to have life belts on when an order is given to prepare to land, to immediately and automatically put the life belts on; would not that help to save a person?

Mr. DEAL. It perhaps would, under certain conditions. I do not think in this particular case it would have done any good if we had been instructed to any extent. In the keels, the gasoline tanks were breaking, and if anyone proceeded to get a life belt where they were stored normally, they would be hit.

Representative DELANEY. Do you carry parachutes so that if you fly over land you might escape by the use of the parachutes? Mr. DEAL. I think we had two parachutes for emergency landings. Representative DELANEY. Two parachutes for a crew of 75?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. How long have you been serving on dirigibles?

Mr. DEAL. I have been in lighter-than-air from 1919 to 1926, and out 4 years, and then back in 1930.

Representative DELANEY. You escaped when the Shenandoah

crashed?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir; I was not on the Shenandoah.
Representative DELANEY. You are still in the Navy?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Have you got confidence in the dirigi

bles?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. Are you willing to serve on any dirigi

ble?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative DELANEY. That is all.

Representative HARTER. I understood you to say, Mr. Deal, when you stepped out of your bunk that the ship was inclined at that time?

Mr. DEAL. Well, the inclination was simultaneous with the breaking of these girders, it seems to me the ship inclined right after this, and it increased as I walked forward.

Representative HARTER. It increased quite rapidly?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Representative HARTER. Was it inclined when you saw the gas tanks slip!

Mr. DEAL. There was no inclination when I stepped out of my bunk; I stood straight on the keel and did not have to hold on to anything.

Representative HARTER. As you went along you had to take hold of supports?

Mr. DEAL. As I progressed further I had to take hold of the girders and walk the girders somewhat as you walk a ladder.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. You were on the elevator controls of this ship and other ships, Mr. Deal?

Mr. DEAL. I had a little time on the elevators of the Shenandoah under a man named Allen; that is where I first touched the elevator wheel on the Los Angeles, I had some training on the elevators and then I had some on this ship.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. How does the Akron compare with these other ships you served on, in your estimation?

Mr. DEAL. I think she maneuvered much easier than any of the others.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Was she a satisfactory ship?

Mr. DEAL. Yes, sir.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. What were the last orders that you heard, if you heard any, before the crash, given through the ship-any? Mr. DEAL. No, sir. The last order I got was to take a water ballast reading about 20 minutes to 12.

Representative ANDREW. Was this tank that dropped attached to one of the girders that broke?

Mr. DEAL. No, sir; that was in a different position, it was forward where the girders broke and this was slung under the keel.