It seems to me that better communication in terms of labor recruitment is one

Mr. RESNICK. What happens to these people when they are up there? Do they not get paid?

Mr. ATENCIO. No.

Mr. RESNICK. What do they do for food?

Mr. ATENCIO. They go to the local store and go into debt and the consequences are really bad because as a result of going into debt they will work later on for whatever they can get paid. So this makes them very vulnerable.

Mr. RESNICK. They have no bargaining power whatsoever.

Mr. ATENCIO. No bargaining power at all. So the recommendations made earlier by Mr. Corona, certainly I concur with them. Basically these two recommendations are something that should be considered. The Department of Labor should have much better communications in terms of recruitment and then

Mr. RESNICK. Not only that but it seems to me, that there should be a certain stipend whether they work or not. This is one of the Mr. ATENCIO. That is right.

Mr. RESNICK. This is one of the problems, of course, that all farmworkers face. What is the effect on the permanent-what is living like in the roughly permanent areas in Colorado?

Mr. ATENCIO. Colorado has the barrios and colonias as does California. These have been developed perhaps as a result of people who have dropped out of the migrant stream and have established residence there. They have worked in farm labor. As they can get better jobs, they will.

Now, MDTA programs and other Labor Department programs are available but I do not think that they are really reaching many of these people.

Mr. RESNICK. They are not.

Mr. ATENCIO. I do not know why. Maybe because sometimes the requirements for entering one of these programs are too high and basic adult education should precede them.

Mr. RESNICK. The OEO does not have any programs to educate these people.

Mr. ATENCIO. The rural Community Action Programs in Colorado have just recently been funded, most of them. Some have been active. Now, the Migrant Council is 312 months old and as we go throughout the State we are encountering some of the poorest coun ties. The ones with the largest ghettoes or barrios, do not have services for these people. We hope that things will improve.

Mr. RESNICK. This Migrant Council is funded by OEO.
Mr. ATENCIO. Funded by title III (b) of the OEO.
Mr. RESNICK. How many people do you serve?

Mr. ATENCIO. We have just established our day-care program for migrant children and we will probably serve an accumulative number of about a thousand that were funded for 670 children. About. After we complete this-well, right now we are going into the second phase of night adult education. We are not going to be too

Mr. RESNICK. You bring them up to the level where the MDTA program can take over.

Mr. ATENCIO. That is right. This is our hope and our hope is to ›mmunicate with Texas where most of these people come from so ey will continue.

Mr. RESNICK. So, in other words, there is some impact being made it it, this is on the migrants. What about just the poor residents the rural communities in southern Colorado? What help does > get?

Mr. ATENCIO. Things have been rather slow. The San Luis Valley southern Colorado includes five or six counties and during the rly days of OEO they tried to organize an area wide CAP and ey were unable to do so because one county said they had no probm and they did not want any Federal intervention. So as a result, e have a very weak CAP in the two poorest counties in Colorado. ut it is functioning.

Mr. RESNICK. You mentioned in your testimony earlier that you xpected violence not only in New Mexico but Colorado and Arizona. think you mentioned the whole Southwest.

Mr. ATENCIO. Well, I think what I meant is that the movement will ɔread. I do not necessarily anticipate violence. As a matter of fact, e did not anticipate violence in New Mexico. This was a result of me cross in communication a lot of us feel. And some people were ighly committed, so they kept their word.

I do not think-it is doubtful that violence will erupt again even in Tew Mexico, to this degree, but the interest in Colorado on the situaon in New Mexico is certainly in the forefront and the movement ill spread and I think they will even transcend the rural areas. I hink the urban people are very much concerned and very much intersted, so they are beginning to solidify this.

Mr. RESNICK. You mean this land-grant movement.

Mr. ATENCIO. Yes. People who have previously lived in New Mexico r are heirs to land grants as well as other people who are not conected are beginning to mobilize and take up the cause.

Mr. RESNICK. What about the State? Is that doing anything in 'olorado? Are they aware of the problem? Are they doing-are there ny programs to revitalize the rural areas?

Mr. ATENCIO. I do not know. I have not been there long enough to peak authoritatively. I know that the HRD, Human Resource Deelopment programs, had a hard time in Colorado and have just reently the Department of Labor agreed in Colorado, to participate in his.

Mr. RESNICK. In other words, again, this is a—these areas are foroften on the State level?

Mr. ATENCIO. That is right.

Mr. RESNICK. And on the Federal level unless somebody hollers or omething drastic happens.

Mr. ATENCIO. That is correct, Congressman, and it seems that the ivil Rights Commission in Colorado has been urging in this direction. Mr. RESNICK. Well, I want to thank you. The hour is getting late nd I would like to thank you for coming all this way to testify. It as been most helpful.

On Wednesday, that is tomorrow, the first witness will be the Ionorable David Cargo, the Governor of New Mexico. Then, we

will have Professor Clark Knowlton, Department of Sociology, University of Texas, at El Paso, and Robert Marshall, Director of the Self-Help Enterprises in Visalia, California.

The meeting is adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the hearing was adjourned, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, June 14, 1967.)

EFFECT OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS ON RURAL AMERICA

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 14, 1967

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON RURAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE

COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:10 a.m., in room 1302, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Joseph Y. Resnick (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Resnick, Montgomery, Goodling, Mathias, and Zwach.

Also present: Representative Walker.

Also present: Martha Hannah, subcommittee clerk.

Mr. RESNICK. These hearings will now resume.

I would like to say for the benefit of the gentlemen of the press that this is the Subcommittee on Rural Development of the House Committee on Agriculture. We are investigating the effects of the Federal programs on rural America, not just rural poverty. We are looking into the entire aspect of the problem. I would like to make that very clear. There seems to be a misunderstanding as to what we are trying to do here.

And now, I would like to welcome our first witness, the Honorable David F. Cargo, Governor of New Mexico.

I would also like to point out that we have invited Congressman Johnny Walker, of New Mexico, to join the committee in an ex officio capacity.

Mr. WALKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID F. CARGO, GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO

Governor CARGO. Well, first of all, I want to thank you for inviting me here and to begin with, I would like to explain just a very few things by way of background.

Now, we were asked to prepare a two-page statement when I came in today and it is very, very difficult to condense 400 years of history and put it together on two pages. But, there are several things that I believe should be pointed out. One is that in New Mexico, at least in the northern part of the State, the population of that area that we have been essentially concerned with is Spanish-American, and I think we should make this clear because they are not in that area of the State Mexican Americans. They are Spanish Americans. And much of the language that they speak is not the Spanish that is spoken in Spain or in other parts of the country. It is donkey-tee Spanish. It is Spanish that goes back to an early period in our history. And, I think that we

also have to realize that in the area which has been under discussion recently, that is, the Tierra Amarilla area, or Chalma, that these people have a different culture. They have problems that are sui generis, and it is something that frankly, I do not think that our poverty pro grams have dealt with adequately.

It is not just a matter of land grants and I know that many times you have read in the paper and you have seen a discussion to the effect that it is all involved in land grants, and nothing could be further from the truth than to say that only land grants are involved.

All that Reies Lopez Tijerina did was to articulate the type of frus tration that has been built up in the people of this area over 100 years, and as I say, it does not involve just land. It involves 100 other problems and some of them I know seem maybe a little strange to some of you.

While Congress has been talking about mass transportation, rapid transit, and all of the rest, in northern New Mexico the problem that is critical to them is the fact that they cannot use work animals on the national forest.

Now, I know this sounds silly but one of the reasons behind what happened in Tierra Amarilla is the fact that they do not permit work horses and work animals on the national forest.

Now, you had several other problems which I think should be referred to. Another one involves roads and those that are not familiar with what has happened in northern Rio Arriba County in the past few months should only reflect back a very few months when in a place called Canones they indicted the parents of most of the children within that village because they refused to send their children to school over an impassable road. They were indicted. They were given a year in the penitentiary and the sentence was suspended.

I went up to Canones and was the first Governor in 300 years to ever go there, and this was a very frustrating experience for these people because they are concerned about their roads and they simply do not have roads. It is just as simple as that. The roads are bad.

There are school board elections up there and we have had some burnings in this part of the county. For many, many years they burned haystacks. They burned homes. They burned barns. We had eight fires in a 5-week period this year. And for those that say that this was all a part of a pattern of terrorism in this part of the county, I would just respectfully point out that each and every one of those fires took place after a school board meeting. So, I doubt that it had anything to do with the land claims. As a matter of fact, I doubt it very seriously.

But, some of the other things that bother these people, and believe me, they are bothered, is the fact that for many years no one would ever listen to them. Nobody ever takes the time to go and listen to them. All they do, they go into the northern counties, and OEO is guilty of this on occasion as any one else, they go in and promise them something. The only difference that exists with OEO is that they are having really an election every day of the year up there whereas the politicians are only having an election every two years, and believe me, if you could pave roads with broken promises, they would have black topped all of northern New Mexico years ago.