Mr. SIBAL. AS I think you can gather from the questions which some of my colleagues have asked, Mr. Kornegay, and Mr. Curtin, and so forth, we are very much concerned with the plight the railroads are in and your industry is in, and there is a feeling, and perhaps it is not well founded, but nevertheless it exists, that the railroads have permitted, to some degree, time to go by them in terms of modernizing equipment. When you compare the railroad service for passengers today with what it was 10 years ago, and compare the same change in service in other forms of transportation, recognizing you have special problems, we wonder sometimes if part of the problem is not that time has passed you by.

Mr. SCALLAN. I agree with you, sir, because the passenger service is the railroad's "showcase" and most people, when they speak about the railroads, will immediately refer to the passenger part. I personally believe that the railroads make a great mistake not to keep their passenger business right up to snuff because I think it is their best advertisement. I happen to ride on the Broadway Limited between Chicago and New York. That is an excellent train and they seem to be pleased to have you on the train. I am not speaking against any other train and I am not making any invidious comparisons here, but the Broadway Limited and a number of other trains, really like to have you as a passenger and they give fine service. I think that does a great deal for the railroads generally, whereas I am sure that a bad experience and bad service draws a bad reaction. I agree completely with what you say.

Mr. SIBAL. Do you have any thoughts as to how these new ideas are developing and whether they are in practical application which can be made in the foreseeable future, such a thing as a monorail, for example, in a very heavily populated commuter area?

Mr. SCALLAN. The monorail is, of course, a very glamorous thing and everybody talks about it. But I think that there are other ways in the commuter and the city transportation part of this problem. There is a lot that is going to be done this year, very shortly. There is much that will be new. When you come to the intercity or the sleeping car part of the problem, I think that is further off I believe that it is going to wait until the railroads become healthier. If you make the railroads healthier and strong, then good passenger business is going to follow pretty quickly.

Mr. SIBAL. You do feel that commuter service is about to receive some significant, new ideas and new equipment?

Mr. SCALLAN. Yes, sir. As I say, these North Western cars are double deck. They have very comfortable seats. They are air conditioned and in the hottest weather they are cool. There is very good lighting and they run very much on time. I think some other commuter service is getting that way and I think it is going to get even better.

Mr. SIBAL. I do mean to put you on the spot. I know this is not the purpose of your testimony. Do you have any ideas as to whether this kind of equipment would be applicable to the New Haven Railroad?

Mr. SCALLAN. The New Haven Railroad has clearance problems with the double decker, but I believe that very shortly they intend to get new commuter cars of the type that is being built for New York Central. This, of course, is a matter of financing, but they are desperately in need of equipment. We have a lot of people in our company and there are a lot of people in the other companies that build passenger equipment who are very concerned about this. They have a million ideas and they want to promote them, so I would think that you can safely feel that passenger equipment in the commuter part of it is going to move ahead very quickly in design and improvement. Mr. SIBAL. That is very encouraging. Now, all they have to do is find the money to buy these.

Mr. SCALLAN. Yes, sir. That is the problem.

Mr. SIBAL. Thank you. Thank you, very much.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Thomson?

Mr. THOMSON. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rogers?

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I did have one question that came to mind, Mr. Scallan. What percentage of your business in your industry is now accounted for by exporting to other countries?

Mr. SCALLAN. I would not have the percentage figure. It is very small. Five to eight percent, Mr. Parkes says.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Are you doing anything to try to increase that?

Mr. SCALLAN. Yes, we are, and all of these RPI companies are. But the thing that all of our people run into right away is the question of financing. Countries like Canada and Germany provide financing and we are more or less on our own.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Yes. I wondered is the Department of Commerce helping at all in trying to encourage this?

Mr. SCALLAN. Very active and very much.

Mr. PARKES. May I answer you specifically? We have a committee on foreign trade dealing with the subject of the export of the American-produced railway equipment and supplies. We are working very closely with Mr. Gudeman of the Department of Commerce. We have had several meetings with him and we are now in the process of furnishing him with what he says are "case histories of the kind that I can use to help you increase your exports." So that is coming along.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I wondered if your committee, for instance, has an active group going around in other countries to try to encourage sales?

Mr. PARKES. Mr. Scallan has one man who travels so much I cannot get my hands on him as often as I would like. Several other companies have men who are constantly in foreign circulation. These are the men who constitute our committee. They are all men who are experts in foreign trade.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Are they getting the cooperation of our representatives in various embassies?

Mr. PARKES. That is one of the questions that is being discussed with Mr. Gudeman now; the improvement of reporting processes. One of the things our committee has asked the Department of Commerce for is one person with whom this industry can deal. Mr. Gudeman has been very friendly and he has offered full cooperation. He says, "If you demonstrate to me that is what you need, we will see that you get it." We have no quarrel as of now with the kind of assistance we have gotten from the Department of Commerce.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. But now your export is only about 5 percent? Mr. PARKES. Somewhere between 5 and 8 percent total.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. How does this compare with 10 years ago, would you say?

Mr. PARKES. I have no basis here for making that kind of comparison.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. Could you furnish that to the committee? Mr. PARKES. We would be glad to.

Mr. ROGERS of Florida. I think that might be helpful, and maybe a comparison with a 15-year period and 10-year period and the present situation. Let us see what has happened to the export phase of your industry.

Mr. PARKES. Yes, sir.

(The information referred to was subsequently furnished and is as follows:)