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equal to the greatest demand, and our artisans | ly in this case, as any nation or other parts of sufficient to work them up even for exportation. the world have in the monopoly of any article In these cases, I take it to be the policy of every enlightened nation to give their manufactures that degree of encouragement necessary to perfect them, without oppressing the other parts of the community; and under this encouragement, the industry of the manufacturer will be employed to add to the wealth of the nation.

whatever; but, with this advantage to us, that it cannot be shared nor injured by rivalship. If my general principle is a good one, that commerce ought to be free, and labor and industry left at large to find its proper object, the only thing which remains will be to discover the exceptions that do not come within the rule Mr. MADISON. From what has been suggest- I have laid down. I agree with the gentleman ed by the gentlemen that have spoken on the from Pennsylvania, that there are exceptions, subject before us, I am led to apprehend we important in themselves, and which claim the shall be under the necessity of travelling fur-particular attention of the committee. Although ther into an investigation of principles than what I supposed would be necessary, or had in contemplation when I offered the propositions before you.

I am sensible that there is great weight in the observation that fell from the honorable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. TUCKER,) that it will be necessary, on the one hand, to weigh and regard the sentiments of the gentlemen from the different parts of the United States; but, on the other hand, we must limit our consideration on this head, and, notwithstanding all the deference and respect we pay to those sentiments, we must consider the general interest of the Union; for this is as much every gentleman's duty to consider as is the local or State interest-and any system of impost that this committee may adopt must be founded on the principles of mutual concession.

Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect, that those parts of the Union which contribute more under one system than the other, are also those parts more thinly planted, and consequently stand most in need of national protection; therefore they will have less reason to complain of unequal burthens.

There is another consideration; the States that are most advanced in population, and ripe for manufactures, ought to have their particular interests attended to in some degree. While these States retained the power of making regulations of trade, they had the power to protect and cherish such institutions; by adopting the present constitution, they have thrown the exercise of this power into other hands: they must have done this with an expectation that those interests would not be neglected here.

the freedom of commerce would be advantageous to the world, yet, in some particulars, one nation might suffer to benefit others, and this ought to be for the general good of society.

The next exception that occurs, is one on which great stress is laid by some well informed men, and this with great plausibility. That each nation should have within itself the means of defence, independent of foreign supplies: that in whatever relates to the operations of war, no State ought to depend upon a precarious supply from any part of the world. There may be some truth in this remark, and therefore it is proper for legislative attention. I am, though, well persuaded that the reasoning on this subject has been carried too far. The difficulties we experienced a few years ago, of obtaining military supplies, ought not to furnish too much in favor of an establishment which would be difficult and expensive; because our national character is now established and recognized throughout the world, and the laws of war favor national exertion more than intestine commotion, so that there is good reason to believe that when it becomes necessary, we may obtain supplies from abroad as readily as any other nation whatsoever. I have mentioned this, because I think I see something among the enumerated articles that seems to favor such a policy.

Mr. BOUDINOT.-I believe that it will not be disputed, that the best and easiest way of supplying the public wants, is by raising a revenue on the importation of goods by way of impost, though the manner in which it should be done, I confess, is a subject on which I stand greatly in need of information. I should, therefore, In my opinion, it would be proper also for most cordially comply with the request of the gentlemen to consider the means of encourag- gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. TUCKER,) ing the great staple of America, I mean agri- in order to obtain time for consideration, and culture; which I think may justly be styled the to wait the arrival of the absent gentlemen, in staple of the United States, from the spontane-order that we may have that assistance which ous productions which nature furnishes, and is to be derived from them. Did I consider the the manifest advantage it has over every other question on the present motion final, I should object of emolument in this country. If we be at a loss how to act; but this, I take it, is compare the cheapness of our land with that of not the case. I presume it is intended by the other nations, we see so decided an advantage mover only to lay his motion on the table, with in that cheapness, as to have full confidence of the original propositions open for debate and conbeing unrivalled. With respect to the object of sideration, till the committee are possessed of manufactures, other countries may and do rival sufficient information to proceed. I also confess, us; but we may be said to have a monopoly in that, in general, I am in favor of specific duties agriculture; the possession of the soil, and the on enumerated articles. I shall therefore vote lowness of its price, give us as much a monopo- | for the amendment; but, in doing this, I shall

Mr. BLAND, from Virginia, thought the committee not prepared to enter on the business of impost in the accurate manner which the form of the propositions seemed to imply. No gentleman on the floor could be more desirous than he was to go into the measure of a permanent system; but he could not agree to proceed at this time, for want of information. When he looked at the list of articles, he saw some calculated to give encouragement to home manufactures. This might be in some degree proper; but it was a well-known fact, that the manufacturing arts in America were only in their infancy, and far from being able to answer the demands of the country; then certainly you lay a tax upon the whole community, in order to put the money in the pockets of a few, whenever you burthen the importation with a heavy impost.

[APRIL, 1789.

I wish to lay as large a sum on this article as good policy may deem expedient; it is an article of great consumption, and though it cannot be reckoned a necessary of life, yet it is in such general use, that it may be expected to pay a very considerable sum into your treasury, when others may not with so much certainty be relied upon. But, when we consider the relative proportion of the first cost of it, and the fifteen cents duty, we shall find it about one third. This, I cannot help thinking, is too high, as the risk of a total loss may be ventured in order to save so great a sum; it is surely a great temptation, and I dread its consequences on more accounts than one.

Mr. MADISON.-I would tax this article with as high a duty as can be collected, and I am sure, if we judge from what we have heard and Mr. SCOTT.-The subject before us naturally seen in the several parts of the Union, that it divides itself into two heads. First, what ar- is the sense of the people of America that this ticle shall be the subject of a particular tax, article should have a duty imposed upon it and what shall remain in the common mass weighty indeed. The duty proposed by the liable to an impost ad valorem? The second, gentleman from New York (Mr. LAWRENCE) what the sum is that is proper for the article very little exceeds what is laid in this State, we select? For both these points will be ne- and very little what is laid in some other States, cessary, because it can hardly be supposed that while some have thought it expedient to impose all articles can be enumerated, while some cer- an excise superior. The question then is, whetainly ought. This being the case, it leads us ther the highest sum can be collected? I am to inquire what rule or principle shall be laid of opinion that higher duties may generally be down in order to make a proper discrimination; collected under the government of the Union for surely some reason should be assigned for than could be under that of the particular this distinction. I presume the particular arti-States, because it has been the policy of some, cle which is to be subjected to an extraordinary not only to decline going hand in hand togeduty must either come at so cheap a rate, ac- ther, but actually to oppose regulations made in cording to its intrinsic value, as to bear a great- a neighboring State. Being persuaded, likeer impost without being unreasonably expen-wise, that the highest sum will not exceed the sive, or it must be one which we do not stand power of the law to enforce the collection of, I in need of at all, and only used for the purposes shall vote for it. of luxury. If an article does not come within one of these descriptions, I see no reason why it should be taxed in an extraordinary manner. On motion of Mr. GALE, the word rum was changed into distilled spirits of Jamaica proof. Mr. LAWRENCE proposed to lay twelve cents on this article, saying, I believe, Mr. Chairman, it will be necessary to consider, when we are about to lay a duty on any article, how far it is likely to be collected, especially if our main object is to obtain revenue by our impost. I trust it does not require much illustration to prove to the satisfaction of the committee, that if you lay your duties too high, it will be a temptation to smuggling; for, in the proportion which that sum bears to the value of the article, will be the risk run in every attempt to introduce it in a clandestine manner, and, if this temptation is made too strong, the article will furnish no revenue. I believe, if the committee shall impose a duty of fifteen cents, as proposed by the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. SHERMAN,) it will be so strong a temptation for smuggling, that we shall lose our revenue altogether, or be compelled to use a mode of collection probably different from what we have been accustomed to-a mode so expensive as to absorb the whole produce of the tax.

Mr. BOUDINOT.-I am in favor of taxing this article as high as there is a probability of collecting the duty. I think our doing so will answer two or three good purposes. The present object of the committee is to raise a revenue, and no article on the list before you is more likely to be productive than this one; but a high duty may also discourage the use of ardent spirits; if not, it may discourage the West Indies from turning their molasses into rum. This being the case, they have no other market for molasses than this country, and our own distilleries, with the advantages arising therefrom, will be able to rival them in the manufacture of that article; so far it may tend to the benefit of the country. I conceive it might be proper, on these accounts, to lay a much higher duty than has been proposed, were it not for the considerations mentioned by the gentleman from New York, that we run a risk of losing all by grasping at too much.

Mr. LAWRENCE.-The sum proposed is higher than the duty collected in this State, which is about eight cents; I tear, therefore, that it cannot be collected. If we are to reason and act as moralists on this point, I am certain it is the wish of every member to prevent the use of ardent spirits altogether, for their influence on

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the morals of the people is of the most perni- | sum, if it be thought too high; but I presume I cious kind. Nor does the mischief terminate am right in the principle upon which I contend, here, as I apprehend it is equally destructive to that we ought to collect the duty on the importhe health; but we are not to deliberate and de- tation of molasses, in preference to any other termine on this subject as moralists, but as way. politicians, and endeavor to draw (if I may use the expression) from the vices of mankind, that revenue which our citizens must, in one form or other, contribute. The question is, what shall | be the duty on any particular article? To accomplish this purpose, we must determine by the circumstances of that article. Now, if we lay a high duty on Jamaica rum, it is supposed it will prevent the consumption; but then the purpose we have in view is frustrated, either because we cannot collect the tax, or the object of it is no longer imported. The consequence in this latter case would be, that the morals of our citizens are not impaired; yet it does not appear to me that this consequence would certainly flow from a system of high duties. I rather fear it would lead no further than to set men on schemes to evade the duty; and none of us are ignorant of the ingenuity and invention which can be exercised, when interest prompts mankind to an evasion of the law. We know the situation of the different States; the coast disposed by its prodigious extent to favor every means of illicit trade. A cargo of rum could be landed in Jersey, and the whole, reshipped in small vessels, might soon be brought into this city. If this should be the effect of our law, we have no other way to correct the operation, but by adopting a mode of collection odious to all, on account of the numerous train of officers it would require in its execution. But there would also be a danger of vessels running into creeks and small inlets, for the purpose of landing their cargoes, as well as on the sea-shore. Hence a necessity would arise of employing a number of vessels to check and correct such abuses, and the probable event would be, that all the impost collected would go to defray the expense of getting it into the treasury.

The committee now agreed to tax ardent spirits, of Jamaica proof, fifteen cents; and all other spirituous liquors twelve cents.

On filling up the blank on molasses:

Mr. MADISON.—It is agreed, I presume, that spirits of every kind are proper objects of taxation, but whether we shall tax spirits in the case before us, or whether we shall tax the article from which it comes, is a question worthy of the consideration of the committee for several reasons. I believe it will be best to lay our hands on the duty, by charging this article on its importation, to avoid a more disagreeable measure. I would, therefore, lay such a duty on molasses, as is proportioned to what we have affixed upon rum, making an allowance in favor of our own manufacture. I think eight cents per gallon will allow a sufficient advantage to them, but of this I am not positive, and, therefore, shall not pertinaciously adhere to that

Mr. FITZSIMONS.-I think the duty on this article depends, in a great measure, upon what has been already agreed to. If the tax of West India and country rum is not well proportioned, it may be destructive of the end we have in contemplation. If, agreeably to the idea of the gentleman from New York, we affix a low duty, a great deal more rum will, in all probability, be distilled and used, than heretofore; of course, it will effectually rival the Jamaica rum, and the Union will lose the revenue which we calculate upon. Eight cents, I apprehend, is as well proportioned to the other taxes as can be devised. Mr. GOODHUE considered molasses as a raw material, essentially requisite for the well-being of a very extensive and valuable manufacture. It ought likewise to be considered (as was truly stated) a necessary of life. In the Eastern States it entered into the diet of the poorer classes of people, who were, from the decay of trade and other adventitious circumstances, totally unable to sustain such a weight as a tax of eight cents would be upon them. Moreover, the tax was upon particular States as well as individuals, for it was a fact of public notoriety, that Massachusetts imported more molasses than all the other States together. She imports from 30,000 to 40,000 hogsheads annually. He would make one observation more. It had been the policy of Great Britain, as he well remembered, to encumber and depress the distillation of molasses. To do this, at one time they laid a duty of three pence sterling per gallon. It was conceived to be an oppressive measure, but it had little other effect than to cause heart-burnings and enmity. It produced no revenue, and the Parliament were forced to reduce the duty to a penny. From experience, therefore, as well as from the arguments before urged, he was inclined to believe that the committee would be satisfied with fixing a lower sum. He could not consent to

allow more than two cents.

Mr. THATCHER.-It appears to me, that for the want of a certain and fixed principle to act upon, there is a great danger of making some improper establishments. It is for this reason that I wish not to hurry on the business with so much precipitation. Did gentlemen consider, when they agreed to a high duty on ardent spirits, that it would be a pretext for increasing the duties on a necessary of life. I presume a principal reason why a high tax on spirits was admitted, was in order to discourage the use of it among ourselves. If this was the intention of the committee, I have no objection to the burthen; but, even here, I fear difficulties will arise. Did we judiciously examine whether the spirit of the law accords with the habits and manners of the people? and did we assure ourselves of the full execution of the law? If we

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did not, the act becomes impolitic, because a | ourselves to the use of them, we ought to be law which cannot be executed tends to make the Government less respectable.

certain that we have malt and hops, as well as brew-houses for the manufacture. Now, I deny that we have these in sufficient abundance to the eastward; but if we had, they are not taxed. Then why should the poor of Massachusetts be taxed for the beverage they use of spruce, molasses and water? It surely is unreasonable. I hope gentlemen will not adopt the motion for eight cents until they are furnished with some better evidence of its propriety and policy than any that has yet been given, or as I suspect that can be given.

Mr. AMES.-I have not had the advantage of hearing all the arguments in support of the eight cents proposed; but those I have heard I am not satisfied with. The principles on which this tax is founded, I understand to be this: that it is an article of luxury, and of pretty general consumption, so that the duty is expected to fall equally upon all; but that it will not operate in this manner, I think is easily demonstrable. Can a duty of fifty per cent. ad valorem, paid, as it were, in an exclusive man- Mr. FITZSIMONS was pleased that gentlemen ner, by the State of Massachusetts, be equal? went so fully into a discussion of a subject No, sir. But taking it as a part of the general which they conceived of great importance, but system, can it be equal unless a proportionable he begged them not to lose sight of an observaduty, equal to fifty per cent., is laid upon tion that had already been made, that whenever articles consumed in other parts of the Union? | a particular duty was supposed to bear hard on No, sir; and is it in the contemplation of gentlemen to lay duties so high as to produce this equality? I trust it is not; because such duties could never be collected. Is not, therefore, eight cents disproportioned to the rates fixed, or intended to be imposed on other articles? I think it is; and, if to these considerations we add what has been said before, relative to its being a raw material important to a considerable manufacture, we cannot hesitate to reject it.

any one member of the Union, it ought to be regarded as a part only of a system bearing equally upon all. He was a friend to commerce, it was his particular profession, and what he had principally devoted his attention to; and therefore it might justly be imagined he was unwilling to fetter it with restraints; but as a member of this body, he considered it proper to forego a pertinacious adhesion to that system, when its interest came in competition with the general welfare.

However gentlemen may think the use of The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. this article dangerous to the health and morals Ames) has represented the proposed regulation of our fellow-citizens-I would also beg them as tending eventually to the ruin of the comto consider, that it is no more so than every merce, fisheries, and manufactures of that State. other kind of spirituous liquors; that it will I do not believe (added he) such a consequence grow into an article for exportation; and al- would result from a duty of eight cents on a though I admit we could export it even encum-gallon of molasses; if I did, I would be one of bered with the duty proposed, yet by it we run the last to advocate the measure; but to underthe risk of having the manufacture totally stand this circumstance more fully, let us proruined, for it can hardly now stand a competi-ceed to an inquiry of the ground on which we tion at home with the West India rum, much stand. The State of Massachusetts imports a less can it do so abroad. If the manufacturers greater proportion of this article than any other of country rum are to be devoted to certain in the Union; she will have therefore (say the ruin, to mend the morals of others, let them be opponents of the measure) to pay exclusively all admonished that they prepare themselves for the impost upon it. Let us examine this. Some the event: but in the way we are about to take, part of the molasses is consumed in the subdestruction comes on so sudden, they have not stance, but all the remainder is distilled: this time to seek refuge in any other employment must either be consumed in the State, or exwhatsoever. If their situation will not operate ported from it; in the latter case, I would pro-, to restrain the hand of iron policy, consider pose that all the rum shipped to foreign nations how immediately they are connected with the should draw back the duties it had paid as momost essential interests of the Union, and then lasses. This would obviate all that was said let me ask if it is wise, if it is reconcilable to relative to the competition between this State national prudence, to take measures subversive and other nations at a foreign market. As to of your very existence? For I do contend, that what is exported, but consumed in some other the very existence of the Eastern States depends parts of the United States, it is but proper that upon the encouragement of their navigation and a duty should be paid, and although it may be fishery, which receive a deadly wound by an advanced in the first instance by the people of excessive impost on the article before us. Massachusetts, yet it will be ultimately paid by the consumers in other parts.

I would concur in any measure calculated to exterminate the poison covered under the form of ardent spirits, from our country; but it should be without violence. I approve as much as any gentleman the introduction of malt liquors, believing them not so pernicious as the one in common use; but before we restrain

What is consumed within the State itself, gentlemen surely do not mean to have excluded from a duty. If they consume more country rum than West India, they pay a less duty than those States which consume a greater proportion of the latter. As to what is used in its raw,